[nreddy]

Originally Posted by gpadki

i think it is also necessary to respect the natives and the language. I have personally seen people getting into a bakery and speaking in their native to the shopkeeper who doesnt even know that language. I guess it's only in Bangalore that all this works, not in other states. So, i guess that respect is give and take wherever we go and live.

When you meet a person looking like a foreigner, you will generally try to talk to him in English. If that foreigner turns out to be a French, German or Dutch.. does that mean you have insulted him, his language and his country?.. all that implied because you started the conversation with him in English?

Bengaluru being a multi-lingual city, anyone walking into a bakery will generally start the conversation in the language of their comfort. If the shopkeeper doesn't understand it, they will immediately try to find a common language, if nothing works, they will use a mix of words and signs to communicate what they want.

And how can anyone know that the bakery person is from Karnataka and not from Kerala or any other place?

How can anyone say that starting the conversation in a non-Kannada language is not giving respect and taking respect?

Does that mean.. giving respect is speaking in Kannada?.. and taking respect is not getting beaten up or abused?

Disrespecting any people or any language has clear definitions protected by the Indian laws. Who are making their own definitions of disrespect should try to think in a broader perspective.

[ChristComesSoon]

The expectation that a contemporary individual must master languages with a usage scope limited to a mere 500 km radius is utterly absurd! There are a friggen' 3000 languages in a span of 3000 kms!

In today's modern world, characterized by widespread smartphone usage and internet connectivity, we are witnessing a transition towards a universal language.

It may take time, but each language evolve to accept vocabulary from the prominent languages. Consider your vernacular language, and observe how many words are imported from the English language! If you're honest, you'd admit that often times, even in government records - usually words are just a transliteration.

Historically, Aramaic held the status of a universal language, followed by Greek in later centuries. Presently, English has assumed that role—just consider the language we are currently utilizing for this forum discussion.

The crux of the issue lies here: We often overlook the fundamental truth that every individual is created equal. Through the perpetuation of casteism and other social injustices, we regrettably propagate the notion that certain individuals are "more equal" than others.

Here is the solution (in my humble, unbiased, totally right opinion ): Every individual should practice this daily: In all forms of communication—spoken or written—with anyone, extend the same level of greeting, courtesy, and respect to the peon as you would to the president.


Consider having an accountability partner to help you stay committed to your resolution.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by ChristComesSoon

The expectation that a contemporary individual must master languages with a usage scope limited to a mere 500 km radius is utterly absurd! There are a friggen' 3000 languages in a span of 3000 kms!


Consider having an accountability partner to help you stay committed to your resolution.

What is your solution ? People in that 500 kms learn some other language ? In most hotels across state, we already try Hindi or English in that order to converse with staff. Same for delivery guys.

We have gone enough off topic in this thread trying to find solution to some criminal behaviour of drunkards by bringing in German intellects' sayings and what not

Bangalore and an incident brings so much off topic writing to wonder if some new constitution is being drafted.

[gpadki]

Originally Posted by nreddy

When you meet a person looking like a foreigner, you will generally try to talk to him in English. If that foreigner turns out to be a French, German or Dutch.. does that mean you have insulted him, his language and his country?.. all that implied because you started the conversation with him in English?

Bengaluru being a multi-lingual city, anyone walking into a bakery will generally start the conversation in the language of their comfort. If the shopkeeper doesn't understand it, they will immediately try to find a common language, if nothing works, they will use a mix of words and signs to communicate what they want.

And how can anyone know that the bakery person is from Karnataka and not from Kerala or any other place?

How can anyone say that starting the conversation in a non-Kannada language is not giving respect and taking respect?

Does that mean.. giving respect is speaking in Kannada?.. and taking respect is not getting beaten up or abused?

Disrespecting any people or any language has clear definitions protected by the Indian laws. Who are making their own definitions of disrespect should try to think in a broader perspective.

That is a vague way to interpret it. Would you walk into a bakery in France (Taking your example of language) and start talking in Hindi and expect the shopkeeper will work it out? I dont think it makes sense.

[ssjr0498]

No offence, but apart from "some" senior folks in the Police, never have I had one cop talk to me in anything other than Kannada, English and then maybe Hindi (in that order) in the past 19yrs of my stay here!
Never have I however experienced the same in the North east, where Hindi is not spoken primarily!
However I feel, the topic is going somewhere else now and it will lead us to no where apart from fighting amongst ourselves. There are bad apples in each basket and obviously one shouldn't generalize, neither for the good nor for the bad!

Originally Posted by Samurai

Bangalore is the only city where when two locals meet, they try Hindi or English first. Whenever some delivery person, or handyman calls me, they always try Hindi first. That's that courtesy a typical Bangalorean gives to any stranger. Even the police do this.

But in this thread Bangalore is represented by drunk rowdies. Apparently, they are the typical Bangalorians now.

[Samarth 619]

I've lived in Bangalore as a child from 1996 to 1998 (school, class 2 to 4). I've faced acts of regionism (or I don't know what they call it). I was just a child but yet I could feel a certain section of my schoolmates were not positively inclined to the fact that I was a "North Indian" and spoke English differently, and I myself had no idea what it means, being a class 2 student who was what, 8 years of age?
It felt terrible seeing the students throw my lunch, tear my dress, group beating, etc and when I got aggressive and did the same with someone I'd find in a weak spot, I was taken to Vice Principal who again, was a hater. This was in Army School, on Brigade road or so. My grandpa was in army, you see. My dad as a teacher there got the same hate too, but he found more friends too, a certain "Balaji sir", Computer teacer, he still remembers as his best friend.

Eventually, next year, for class 3 and 4, I was in a smaller school, some AV Educational Society. Last I checked, it was renamed to "Samved" or so. Far better experience I might say, and I still miss my friends from there... Only one schoolmate hated me, who used to steal my things.
My neigborhood, a peaceful colony at Ilyas Nagar, near JP Nagar, was also a great place to be, except for one "south indian" boy in my neighborhood, a hater. But, I lived and learned Kannada too. The numbers first, handu, erradu, muru, naalku, aidu(5)... hathu (10). And then the general speech like.. Neen haisaru yenu? (What's your name?). I hope I recollected it right, its about 30 years past now.

At one point, I lived in Ramanna Blind Academy. Sad to say, I myself was victim of hate mentality by 4th class as I used to tease and trouble the blind kids, in some way or another, for them being South Indians. I regret it still. It was the hate I received which reflected a bit.


When I went there again in 2010, after my MBA for job purposes (as my dad loved the city), I was again a victim of bad food, or food poisoning or something, but I'm not sure. It was from a hotel, so I don't know it was regionism or just plain bad luck or change of water as they say. I came back to my city.


Years later, I'm back in my own "North Indian" city, and these have become things of the past. I don't hate anyone on that basis.

I still love south Indian food, and many south Indians have come to my city to set up dosa, vada pav, idli sambhar stalls; and I'm their regular customer. This time they're in my city, but no, they won't get hate from me, ever. As long as the food is tasty though.

Eventually, the strong forgive, just remember that. Hate spreads like a virus, but I'm wearing a mask of love. Thanks to my dad's teachings.
For every 1 person in Bangalore that caused me trouble, there were more than 20 who didn't and some of them stood for me, and became my friends, Sabrish Arjun (from Army school), Nagashruti, Shruti, Hema Reddy, I still remember their names. I coudn't connect to even one of them on social media.

But, its enough for me to believe in humanity, largely. Bangalore rocks. And it will continue to...

[Neversaygbye]

Originally Posted by that_sedate_guy

Also, people with similar experiences, feel free to share.

I am really sorry to hear about your ordeal but drunk hooligans looking for a fight will invariably be able to find a reason. In this particular case, the TN number plates were just a pretext. Don't let this incident put you off Karnataka or Bangalore.

I lived in Bangalore for five years and being a "north Indian" as per the local definition I can tell you that such incidents are more the exception than the rule. Yes, there is a segment of rowdies and auto rickshaw drivers who are resentful and parochial but in general people are welcoming and mind their own business. My regular driver in Bangalore for all airport pick ups and drops (A gem of a guy called Akram) once told me that there is a lot of angst among some sections as every day people were coming from outside the state and taking jobs that would have otherwise gone to the locals. I had explained to him the fallacy of this statement - the growth of Bangalore is because all the companies moved there and hired talent including local talent else it would still be the sleepy town it was in the early 90s. The fact that Bangalore now has a swanky airport and Akram can put his daughter in a convent school just from his earnings from driving an airport taxi is something that would not have been possible in the 90s. He understood what I meant.

I remember when some of us of the Team BHP group here in Calcutta drove down to Dalma near Jamshedpur last year, we were accosted by a group of drunk rowdies who were spoiling for a fight. We were just minding our own business and having tea at a roadside shack when it happened. Maybe the sight of so many WB registered cars and LTD stickers triggered them - who knows. However despite outnumbering them and having fit and young people in our group we chose to say sorry for offending them and de-escalated the situation. So it is not about Karnataka and Bangalore per se. It can happen anywhere - as has already been pointed out in another post, the amount of abuse and racism folks from the north east face in Delhi is not funny.

I would suggest that you put this unsavoury incident behind you and not let it affect your stay in Karnataka. Many Indians are parochial and racist - else caste, community and religion would not define political calculations and voting patterns the way it does. Just take it in your stride and move on. And next time remind the goons that they are abusing women. That usually works well as a wake up call. Having women in the group during such incidents is actually a strength and not a weakness, provided it is not just two people trapped by goons in the middle of nowhere.

[SidTheChamp]

Incidents of road rage and attack is very prevalent in Bangalore these days. So many reports are coming, its no longer an isolated incident in my opinion.

The more common ones are when cars is being attacked by two wheelers for overtaking, honking or for no reason at all. Mostly happening in outskirts areas where IT companies have set office in what was earlier villages. If the number plate is Out Of State, it definitely attracts attention. Even if the number plate is In State, the IT people are easily recognized and hence an vulnerable target.

Some links for reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J28A3-jg4qs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5djux1zZgc

https://www.oneindia.com/bengaluru/w...t-3722033.html

The attack on OP and his friend occurred in heart of city and not two wheelers. The trigger for this is well explained in OP's post.

Request to please remain safe and take precautions. More so if you have to stay or travel in those areas where attacks happen.

Some general precautions are
- Avoid conflict as much as possible. Identify the signs of aggressive two wheelers. Do not do anything so that they get an excuse.
- Install dashcam so that are all on record.
- Be prepared with police station locations nearby. If facing an attack, rush to the nearest police station, not apartment
- Be ready with the local police numbers, PCR vans etc. so that you can call in an emergency.
- Form a group of friends who can help each other in emergency situations. Call the police on your behalf.
- Be more careful with Out Of State Number plates. If you plan to settle, please re-register with local state number.

I'm sure there are more preventive ways and you will figure out. As incidents like this are rising, I hope media and public pressure would force the police to be more strict and vigilant.

[nreddy]

Originally Posted by gpadki

That is a vague way to interpret it. Would you walk into a bakery in France (Taking your example of language) and start talking in Hindi and expect the shopkeeper will work it out? I dont think it makes sense.

It will make sense if we remember that our discussion is about Namma Bengaluru. Both the examples happen in Bengaluru only. Don't we come across foreigners in Bangalore?

And let us also take your understanding of a Hindi person or his elderly mom or dad walks into a bakery in France. Let's say they know Hindi only or a little bit of English; and the bakery person knows French only or a little bit of English.

In any such cases also.. both are civilized humans and they try to understand each other and let it work out or take help from other surrounding people.

Do you think the French bakery person would abuse them, threaten them to get out to India, if you can't speak French?

Or do you think that the Hindi person demands or forces the French bakery guy to learn Hindi?

If that Hindi person is a regular friendly customer, the French bakery person might learn few Hindi words to impress his customer and to build customer relationship and to get more Hindi customers from his neighbourhood.

By observing this trend of French shopkeepers learning Hindi for their business to grow.. some nothing-better-to-do French people will start campaigns against the Hindi people blaming that these outsiders are forcing Hindi upon us, why don't they learn French? why don't they write all the bus destination names in French in India? etc.

This is what seems to be happening in Bengaluru.

People are important and language is just for communication. Why can't we understand this simple thing?

We were slaves to the English before independence. If speaking a language is the only way of giving respect to the language, its people and its culture.. Why are we still respecting the English by using their language after they committed so many attrocities on Indians?

Still not satisfied? Instead of goons abusing people to speak Kannada, let the Karnataka government make it a law to pass a Kannada exam to study or to work or to live in Karnataka. (like TOEFL, IELTS, etc). I bet all the non-Kannada people will top that exam consistently and the people so bravely fighting for Kannada against the innocent non-Kannada people will not be able to even pass the test, if it's complex enough.

There should be a need for humans to learn.. that need better be a government exam in a civilized society than threats and hatred from goons.

[gpadki]

Originally Posted by nreddy

It will make sense if we remember that our discussion is about Namma Bengaluru. Both the examples happen in Bengaluru only. Don't we come across foreigners in Bangalore?

This is getting funnier when did I say the shopkeeper picked up a fight? I mentioned there are such fringe elements in every city in the world, and it cannot be the brand of a place. I gave an example of Pondicherry, so can I brand that place as a bad place for tourists? It doesn't work like that. By the way thanks for quoting such an elaborate scenario, for an example

[matchvan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Bangalore is the only city where when two locals meet, they try Hindi or English first. Whenever some delivery person, or handyman calls me, they always try Hindi first. That's that courtesy a typical Bangalorean gives to any stranger. Even the police do this.

But in this thread Bangalore is represented by drunk rowdies. Apparently, they are the typical Bangalorians now.

True that.
These handful of people spoil the image of the city which is otherwise safe and peaceful.
I keep telling my better half that we should settle down in Mysuru only for the people and their good nature.
I used to tell my parents and relatives, there are 2 cities where we can survive if we know Hindi.
Bangalore and Hyderabad!
With incidents like these, times have changed i believe.
Hyderabad remains the same.
Chennai has become more accommodative.
Offlate, about Bangalore less said, the better.
Stay Safe.

[mac187]

Originally Posted by BNG-motorhead

It is tit for tat, use n throw attitude, use this city for self gains, move on. I will change this attitude the day I feel people here treat me better and with respect.

Wow, such hatred on display in a public forum and with 18 folks liking the post!!!

This exact 'use and throw' attitude festers locals vs outsiders feelings in the first place. Can't we follow simple principals of community living?
- Were you care about your neighbor just like you care about yourself/ your home.
- Were you follow your personal principal of 'Tit for Tat' by doing good deeds for each one you receive.
- Were you ask yourself what have you done for the people around you for them to treat you better and not as an equal!

Maybe its too easy to blame society for us to continue to justify living our unsympathetic lives.

[Pontiac]

I used to get bullied too. Not by the locals, but by the police.

I had a KL registration motorcycle and would get bullied every other day not by the locals, but by the police. I don’t know how they managed, or I managed to get caught and they would fine me once every week. The usual NOC, re registration blah blah. This was 20 years back, and I have not experienced this issue of racism from locals back then. I would occasionally hear about people getting robbed on outer ring road showing swords or knife, but that was it.

The nuisance of police stopping me for cash was so frustrating that when I decided to buy a Scorpio, I decided to buy and register from Bangalore itself. Since then, I wasn’t even stopped once for my registration. Never in Karnataka, never in Tamil Nadu, never in the last 10 years in Kerala as the car is with KA registration even now running in Kerala. When it crossed 15years, I took it to Bangalore, got its registration renewed and its good for another 5 years. Lather rinse repeat!

[neon115]

This is the very reason I left India for good.

I had a GJ registered car in Pune. I was once beaten up for the silly reason of not letting a drunkard pass me fast enough on the wrong way. It was that day I decided that it was time to pack up and leave.

[shankar.balan]

If any of us look back a little into the history of our own families and their origins, there will be at some level at least, a history of ‘migratory movement’.


This leads me to ask, at what point exactly, does an ‘outsider’ become an ‘insider’, or an ‘immigrant’, a ‘local’?


And who amongst us, or who in the world at large, is to pass the final judgement on such classification?


Forget all the typical platitudes and gratuitous advice and our own judgements. Let us just answer the above couple of questions, honestly.