[Xehaust]

Excellent literature.
Thank you for sharing Kiran. But i would like to add to it.

There are resident Indians who do think differently, perhaps in the minority, but there nonetheless. The problem is the fact that these are the minority & when they try to improve the world around them, one of two outcomes occur.

The 1st -
In order to help society, behaviour & thinking must change at the very root - the individual. But when these minority of people try to influence an individual, the problem lies in the fact that individuals in the our society are very rigid & constrained in their thinking. After all, trusting fellow humans & always doing the right thing has evolved through thinking openly & without constraints of any kind (religious constraints included). Hence, they rubbish it all & this minority stays exactly that - a minority. In simple terms, there is no growth in numbers for this minority who think "different". All this after India having one of the largest populaces on the planet & yet growing.

The second, & perhaps darker, outcome is that after thinking differently & always doing the right thing, most people begin thiking exactly like the rest - opportunistically. i.e. After always doing the right thing & standing out among the crowd, what have i gained?
Hence, this minority loses out even more when people from this minority start to think like the crowd they actually started out trying to change.

Just my 2 cents with regards to the article.
Come to think of it, if you read my above statements in context to driving, it still holds true.

[Xehaust]

Had an experience yesterday night which im sure almost every driver on the road has had. Have myself had this experience a couple of times. But is there a solution to this?

While driving, i always make it a point to use the indicators & as much as possible, well in advance (specially while taking turns). Yesterday, just before reaching the turn to my building, as usual i switched on the indicators well in advance while noticing a scooter driving right behind me. Since i noticed he was there, i became even more cautious while taking the turn (which very well saved him & his machine). Now, when i reached my gate, i kept my eye on him through the rear view mirror & began to make my turn (this is at standstill speeds which you need to be to get into your building) and as soon as i begin the turn, i notice that he hasnt stopped behind me & is almost right next to me!!!

As soon as i realise this i stop midway into the turn & save him from banging right into me. He just swerves a bit & continues on his way

Seeing this, i dont turn into my building & follow him. Just a little ahead he notices & stops on the side (which was nice of him to his credit). He seems like a reasonable fellow who is almost one & a half times my age (im pretty young, hehehe). Both of us begin talking (not screaming like lunatics...more in a civilised manner, albeit with a higher tone than normal). I do now realise that perhaps it was so because there was no one else around, else he might have acted differently perhaps.

The conversation is as follows.

Me - Why did you not stop behind me & attempted to overtake even though my indicators were on.

Him - Your indicators were not switched on and I wouldve stopped if they were.

Me - But they were on.

Him - Not in advance, you put them on just when you were turning.

Me - Thats not true, i indicated well in advance. And i noticed you were behind me so i made sure i did so in advance.

Him - repeats what he said before.

At this point i realise there is no point in arguing as he is already just repeating himself & am sure will just keep doing the same. Notice that he has now agreed that i indicated while he started off by saying that i did not do so at all.

So i say:
Look, i have no intention of arguing & wasting both our time, but im saying this for your safety. If we would have had an accident, i would only have suffered damage to my car but you would probably have gotten injured. Which is the sole reason i followed you to talk to you. All i can say is, please be more aware next time.

Before i can finish the last sentence, he just drives off
I dont bother to follow & take a u-turn & head back to my building. It did leave a bad taste, but i disregarded it 5 mins later & got myself back to normal.

Once earlier, when such a thing happened, i just argued with the person, exchanged profanities, & we went our seperate ways. After that i realised that arguing was just a waste of time, so ive begun this approach to talk as calmly as possible & if nothing else, make the other person more aware so that he is more aware the next time round.

But seeing that at night, and with a more than usual reasonable person, this is what followed, then i wonder what will happen with morons & during the day wherein people claim the indicators could not be seen due to daylight!!!

P.S - After thinking about it, i feel that somewhere, he knew he was wrong (since he seemed like a reasonable person) but wasnt ready to admit it. Bringing me back to think about the article. Why dont people just admit they are wrong when they know they are?

[MX6]

Xehaust. What an amazing co-incidence? Literally the same thing happened with me. You were turning in to your building, I was moving in to a designated parking area. I use my indicators when turning in to a parking slot as well!
And the conversation is word by word the same.
All the way till here.
Him - Not in advance, you put them on just when you were turning.

Me - Thats not true, i indicated well in advance. And i noticed you were behind me so i made sure i did so in advance.

Him - repeats what he said before.

Me - Very irritated at the fact that this bugger is not realising his mistake, stepping out, starting to scream. You guys will never realise or what?

A security comes running at that time.
Security - I saw sir putting his indicator and turning in to park. He was pulling in very slowly. I also noticed that you didn't bother to stop, and tried squeezing in and swerving to move, though the indicator was clearly visible.

At this point, the biker understood that if he hangs around any more he might be thrashed by the security and he hurriedly mouths sorry in a half hearted way and pushes off.

I tell him - Be safe. Not sorry.

[Xehaust]

Nice co-incidence MX6. Or should i say unpleasant co-incidence

You were lucky that you had someone to back you up. Atleast the guy learnt his lesson & had to swallow his pride for once.

On a positive note, noticed that your confirmed for the Pune meet. Havnt confirmed myself as i dont think ill be sure till the last minute but in case i make it, we can share our views on this incident. hehe

[Deeps]

I've lost count of how many suicidal two wheelers i've saved just because i always use the left mirror and keep a lookout before turning even though indicators are on. One idiot still managed to put a dent on the left C pillar of my car with the handlebar of his bike.

But I've stopped bothering to educate these sort of pricks. In the incident above, I was in the left most lane about to take a left turn into a mall and had indicated well in advance. halfway through the turn, I hear a bang. Instinctively, i look in the mirror and see a guy on a bajaj boxer trying to balance his bike that was resting on the left rear portion of my car. Got out and gave him a peace of mind (without being abusive) and told him that he shouldn't have tried overtaking from the left especially as i had the indicator on also. The guy didn't accept his mistake and argument went on...till the security guards that saw the incident came and told the guy to get lost. I was in half a mind to either take his key away with me or put a same sized dent on the fuel tank of his bike with a rod that i keep in the car. But better sense prevailed (maybe because my mom and sis were with me) and i let him go but while secretly hoping that he meets his maker sometime soon.

[aargee]

Whoa!!! another coincidence but the turn lights missing. A moron (must admit sadly that from my own office) over took me on a parking ramp & that too when I was turning. I don't have to use turn lights here because the parking lot is clearly marked as which way one needs to take.

I ask him after parking as why he did so for which he replied one word "Sorry". I was fool enough to ask him as I'm 100% sure he didn't realize what he did nor meant it seriously.

[kiranpashtakar]

Originally Posted by sbraj

To my horror, I see a black Swift sneaking into the gap on my left that I was vacating. I almost banged on to this fellow.

Hey not to offend you and surely I dont have a first account of the incident that you have described.

But lets look at this sequentially,
1) First you took a call to overtake the bus and vacate your current position,
2) After you took the decision and moved to overtake you realised its not possible to overtake and wanted to back out from the attempt,

Now the logical thing to happen after event 1 is the swift guy moves to your position to look for his opportunity to overtake.

I dont see how you can blame him he did what was the most logical thing to do and assumed that you had used your good judgement to ensure there is ample space to overtake.

What are your views?

What would you have done incase you were in the shoes of the SWIFT guy?

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by kiranpashtakar

Now the logical thing to happen after event 1 is the swift guy moves to your position to look for his opportunity to overtake.

Wrong!! A safe driver does not take the position vacated by a car as soon it moves in an attempt to overtake. He waits for the car to complete the overtake and then try his maneuver. Even if he follows the car performing the overtake, its tailgating and not safe.

I dont see how you can blame him he did what was the most logical thing to do and assumed that you had used your good judgement to ensure there is ample space to overtake.

Wrong again! I would not use another driver's judgment to plan my overtaking. I would ensure I have got my distance and space required rather than relying on the driver in the front. For all you know the driver in the front might need to abort the overtake due to oncoming traffic at the last moment.


What would you have done incase you were in the shoes of the SWIFT guy?

I would have waited for the car in front to overtake first, ensure I have clear road and start my overtaking maneuver.

My answers inline in bold

[anainar]

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

My answers inline in bold

+1 to that. It is not right knowing very well that the car ahead is doing a overtaking maneuver and may back out. Apart from that the Swift should not try to overtake when the driver cant see what is ahead. Such an act is done only by rude/stupid drivers. I will never ever do such a thing.

Nainar

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by kiranpashtakar

Now the logical thing to happen after event 1 is the swift guy moves to your position to look for his opportunity to overtake.

Such type of justification scares the hell out of me. And to think these are the same people I drive around everyday.

[MCR]

I usually take the following approach on single lane roads;

1. Never attempt an overtake unless you can complete it easily.
2. Observe the vehicle behind you and its behaviuor. If its too close or looks like in too much hurry, let it pass.
3. Never attempt an overtake with a yellow board right behind you, beacuse they are experts in tailgating you very closely.
4. Never attempt an overtake when a more powerful vehicle / bigger vehicle is right on your tail. They can surprise you with their speed and / or ego.
5. Honk / flash to indicate the driver in the front, of your intentions.

[kiranpashtakar]

Guys there seeems to be a disconnect in what I have written and what was understood.

I was not mentioning that the swift guy should overtake along with sbraj, all I am saying is, if sbraj has vacated his place and started his overtaking, this means that the place behind the lorry is vacant. And the logical thing for the swift guy is to occupy that place and wait for his turn to overtake and that surely means after sbraj has finished overtaking.

In case the swift guy is leaving the place vacant it would give a wrong indication to the guys at the back that you do not wish to overtake and they will try to occupy the place.

The reason for initiating this discussion was I was in a similar situation, the guy in the front started to overtake but I knew he will not be able to complete it so i had left sufficient space, but the guy at the back thought i was slowing down and he overtook me to occupy the space in the front, result was the car ahead of me and the one which over took me both were trying to push me off the road. Hope you can picturize this.



So you cant blame someone in the swift guys shoes for not doing the logical thing.

I think Sbraj should have slowed down and gotten behind the swift guy as opposed to trying to occupy his initial place.

Anyways its nice to read interesting perpectives to the situation


@spitfire, I would love to see you do something different if you were in the swift guy's shoes.

Would you have left one car's distance behind the lorry on a busy highway where people are tail gating you, I dont think so, Its quite easy to make comments and quite another when it comes to a real time driving situation and you seem to accept that's what everyone around you do such things, so be a roman while in rome or bear the brunt of not being one

My take is sbraj should have waited till he was confident that he can comfortably overtake, if he made a mistake in his judgement why should the people following him pay the price. Again no offence meant but this is my view based on the description provided by Sbraj

There is lot of merit in what MCR has shared and surely these are the guiding principle's on Indian road's there are no laws written on it but its common sense.

[MX6]

Originally Posted by kiranpashtakar

So you cant blame someone in the swift guys shoes for not doing the logical thing.

I think Sbraj should have slowed down and gotten behind the swift guy as opposed to trying to occupy his initial place.

This has now confused me. Why should sbraj slow down to get behind the swift guy who just rushed like a moron to occupy what I'd call as half chance.
Logic apart, the rule is that one should not tail gate. The swift guy should be a bit more understanding that if sbraj is unable to complete his manouver, he'd probably be trying to get back in to a place which he just left.
And the oncoming traffic if not charitable enough to let sbraj overtake, will not be charitable for him to slow down and get behind the swift and god knows how many vehicles who jump on such opportunities to close in.

@sbraj. Just throw an abuse at the swift guy and move ahead.

[kiranpashtakar]

Originally Posted by MX6

The swift guy should be a bit more understanding that if sbraj is unable to complete his manouver, he'd probably be trying to get back in to a place which he just left.

WHY?? Realistically why would I expect the other person to be understanding, If i have made a wrong decision to overtake why should I rely on some else bail me out. where are my good senses, why cant i think of the implications before overtaking.

Okay lets try this for arguments sake, what if the swift guy had overtaken sbraj to pass the lorry and at the last minute decided that he will not be able to make it, what should happen then should sbraj be accomadating enough to slow down and give the swift guy place to get in?? would sbraj or anyone else for that matter really do that. I dont think so. Its something else that one would abuse and give way to avoid collision.

Originally Posted by MX6

And the oncoming traffic if not charitable enough to let sbraj overtake, will not be charitable for him to slow down and get behind the swift and god knows how many vehicles who jump on such opportunities to close in.

Yep that's the price for making a wrong decision, one should be aware of what ahead and behind and also the consequences before making manouvers that confuse other people on the road

I am enjoying this discussion (not at anyone's expense,mind you)

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by kiranpashtakar

the guy in the front started to overtake but I knew he will not be able to complete it so i had left sufficient space, but the guy at the back thought i was slowing down and he overtook me to occupy the space in the front, result was the car ahead of me and the one which over took me both were trying to push me off the road.

The guy at the back did a mistake of rushing in. Now when you see this, you either give a hand signal to this guy to slow down or give him space.

I think Sbraj should have slowed down and gotten behind the swift guy as opposed to trying to occupy his initial place.

Is that the practice seen on the roads? I have not seen it so far (p.s. only driven roughly 50K kms so far). Had that been the practice that I was aware of, I would have happily complied.

Not sure whether you got the point. The moment a driver goes against the followed practices, it creates uncertainty. And uncertainty leads to accidents.

If the Swift guy behind me wanted to overtake, all he needed to do was flash/honk.

My only worry was that I would have banged on to this moron. And my wife and kid were sitting on the left side. Otherwise, one Swift-distance ahead or behind do not matter to me.

My take is sbraj should have waited till he was confident that he can comfortably overtake, if he made a mistake in his judgement why should the people following him pay the price.

An overtaking manoeuvre may be aborted due to many reasons, like sudden appearance of a vehicle from a by lane. My speed was below 10 KMPH. Hence the sudden appearance of the other vehicle prompted me to abort.

There is lot of merit in what MCR has shared and surely these are the guiding principle's on Indian road's there are no laws written on it but its common sense.

Right. But what about dealing with uncertainties on road? For that we need common sense. Some of posts made earlier are very disturbing. Sends out the wrong message.

Realistically why would I expect the other person to be understanding

Have you observed the truck drivers on highways? Majority of them have that quality a lot. Understanding. It is the city folks (mostly educated) who are intolerable. As if they are in a race to get ahead.

I would expect every other person to be understanding. I am not in a race to get ahead. I know I will reach my destination in time. No point in sneaking into every opportunity to get ahead.