[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Currently their prices are as different as chalk and cheese. .

To my point, I dont think people chose a HD over a RE, or visa versa for that matter for reasons of price.

One might have champagne taste, but if one finds itself with a beer budget, beer it most likely is! Loved my RE!

Originally Posted by marcussantiago

RE wants to be more premium? Has anyone informed RE that premium brands make bikes that run for more than a week without breaking down?.

Marcus, I think you are just biassed against RE. I mean, you really expect your bike to be reliable and take you to and from work, like every day?

How is that Starwars prop (KTM) of yours doing, still going strong I imagine?
Take care.

Jeroen

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

To my point, I dont think people chose a HD over a RE, or visa versa for that matter for reasons of price.

One might have champagne taste, but if one finds itself with a beer budget, beer it most likely is! Loved my RE!

But do you think you would love a 650 parallel twin cyclinder RE at 3.5L or so, just the same way?

I use to ride around my college days on an old block Bullet. The newer ones feel like a shade of it in comparison, with an astronomical pricetag. Not sure how I would feel on a parallel twin RE.

If it's a twin - Harley comes to mind rather than RE. If it's an RE - my pick of the lot is still the old Bullet 500. But for the market - the lines will surely blur if RE prices go up and HD prices come down.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by GTO

Maybe they should pick a leaf out of the book of the other iconic brand - JEEP? Some say that the value of 'Jeep' is more than that of its parent company FCA! And Jeep has done it with a relevant product range that is very up-to-date in terms of contemporariness. Some products are well-priced too!

If only M&M or Siddarth Lal is going to pick it(Harley) up and turn around the losses!

It will be a great brand to be owned by a Indian group...

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

But do you think you would love a 650 parallel twin cyclinder RE at 3.5L or so, just the same way?
.

Couple of thoughts: I am not a biker at all. I have only owned one bike, a 1975 restored RE Bullet. I bought it while living in Delhi. Only because I was finding it too cumbersome to get into classic car ownership in India. Got my Indian driver license and did well over 15.000 km. It was one of the best decisions I made. Not only got it me my bike, but I also got introduced to some really nice and interesting biker guys (and a few ladies). Couple a times per month, just a few hours touring, a coffee stop etc. And quite some longer drives 3-5 days touring. Loved it.

I know next to nothing when it comes to bikes. The ones that do interest me are the classic ones and even then, I know very little, but at least I will look at them.

As companies go I find RE and HD very interesting, given their history, what they went through, their highs and lows. And how they managed to capture a very loyal following, with very often not that great a product. (in the eye of the beholder of course).

I would say choosing a HD or a RE is a very irrational choice, either way. Which is probably the best way to go about it! However, for many of us, we have one rational that comes into play, our wallet.

So for manufacturers its never about how many people are interested in your products. Its about how many actually will buy your product. Im interested in the latest Bentley and I will pop into the dealer, get brochures, do a test drive, but I will never buy one. (at least not a new one)

Jeroen

[marcussantiago]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Marcus, I think you are just biassed against RE. I mean, you really expect your bike to be reliable and take you to and from work, like every day?

God point

Originally Posted by Jeroen

How is that Starwars prop (KTM) of yours doing, still going strong I imagine?

It's doing quite well, still mad as a bat!

[shifu]

Can these threads be merged please?


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...fits-down.html

[r.K]

Harley is launching 2 new models - Iron 1200 and the 48 Special for 2018:

http://www.msn.com/en-in/autos/news/...gbRN&ocid=iehp

I'm guessing they will soon launch it in India soon, now that the customs for CBU has reduced?

[V.Narayan]

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com...le24027177.ece

US squeezes India to set zero import duty on Harleys

The Donald Trump administration has in recent months been firing away on all cylinders to get India to lower import levies on Harley-Davidsons. Succumbing to the deafening roar of US criticism, the Modi government complied in February. But now, New Delhi is under pressure to waive import duty on America’s iconic motorbike in its entirety.

“The Trump regime believes the import tariff reduction on motorbikes that India implemented in February is not enough. The US Trade Representative’s (USTR) office wants the demand for zero import duties on the Harley-Davidson to be part of the agenda of the meeting between the USTR and Commerce and Industry Minister Suresh Prabhu,” a government official told BusinessLine.

Prabhu will meet USTR Robert Lighthizer in Washington in two weeks.

But his ministry is undecided on how to respond to the demand. Tariff elimination will be difficult, given the adverse commercial and political fallout.

“Import tariffs are high on motorcycles as it is felt that our domestic industry needs to be protected, and manufacturing and job creation within the country needs to be encouraged,” the official said. “If duties are to be eliminated for Harley-Davidson, it has to be done for all high-end motorcycles imported from all countries. This could deal a severe blow to our domestic industry.”

In February, India reduced import duties on fully-imported motorcycles (above 800 cc) from 75 per cent to 50 per cent. This was done following US President Donald Trump’s sustained campaign on how “unjust” India’s import duties on Harley-Davidsons were.

However, India’s gesture did not placate Trump, who, instead, only criticised the country. Trump told a gathering of Governors of all the US States: “Now, the Prime Minister (of India), who I think is a fantastic man, called me the other day and said we are lowering (import duties on motorbikes) to 50 per cent. I said okay, but so far we’re getting nothing. He (Modi) gets 50 (per cent), and they think... they’re doing us a favour. That’s not a favour.”

New Delhi is obviously disappointed with Trump’s reaction. “It was a big decision for India to bring down import duties, which led to a reduction in the prices of Harley-Davidson in the country. It is unfortunate that instead of appreciating the move, Washington is seeking more,” the official said.

In March this year, Harley-Davidson announced a reduction in the prices of its Touring and CVO models, which cost between ₹2.62 and ₹3.73 lakh.

Published on May 29, 2018

Clearly pressure from the management of Harley Davidson to make life easier for them. Why should a super luxury item should carry zero duty in India when Indian IT firms, e-Commerce firms and Pharma firms are being hit by US sanctions.

[ksameer1234]

I don't understand why this storm for selling a few hundred bikes a year? Not like reducing import duty to zero will lead to Harleys selling more than Hero Splendor! I don't think India is a significant focus area for HD, so why go to the point of creating diplomatic storm just to be able to sell a few hundred bikes. Or am I missing something?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Why should a super luxury item should carry zero duty in India when Indian IT firms, e-Commerce firms and Pharma firms are being hit by US sanctions.

Are we really benefitting from that duty?

Who really pays it? Harley just passes it down to the customers. So its the customers who pay up a big amount of money - which wouldn't really bother the government anyways because Harley customers are supposed to be the rich Indian they would like to pay up anyways.

Does it really benefit the government? Not really - the numbers are just too minuscule to be of significant value to the government. All superbike brands combined does about 500 units a month.

Does it protect local manufacturing? No locals manufacturers are interesting in the low volume segments. Some can easily introduce their bigger cc bikes in India (KTM 790 for example) - but they don't. And the manufacturers like Bajaj and TVS are still trying early steps at the 300cc segments - nothing more.

Is the current policy effective in promoting local assembly? No again. With the recent increase in duties for CKD and reduction for CBU - some manufacturers are finding out the hard way that their prices are on the higher side compared to competition who import them. Triumph recently went on record about this as well.

No company would start fully producing these bikes in India - just to sell 50 units a month. CKD is the best we can expect.

Is the government giving zero duty to some companies? Yes. Those importing from countries like Thailand enjoy zero import duty - reason why Kawasaki (imports like Z900), Ducati imports etc are priced on the cheaper side compared to competition.

Z900 imported from Thailand costs 7.69L. Z900RS imported from Japan costs 15.3L. Same brand, very similar bikes as per international prices. That's the huge level of duty disparity that exists in our policies today.

Can't Harley avail zero duties? With their new plant coming up in Thailand - they can start imports from there and avail zero duty anyways. Just that it might take an additional year or two. Might as well grant them zero duty officially and not spoil the international relations.

A level playing ground is the need of the hour though. The situation however is that we are seeing a lot of policy flip flops that are not going to help the market at all.

[AccordSport]

Harley in trouble again.

Trade war between US and Europe has resulted in increase of duties from 6% to 30% and Harley wants to move production to Europe now.

US President is not happy and is threatening to increase tariffs if it moves production to Europe.

So Harley is going to suffer on both the ends of the trade war.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/26/trum...an-excuse.html

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by shortbread

If things get desperate and push comes to shove, Harley can step foot on Enfield's market.

Simply relaunch the single cylinder 'B series' in a retro modern avatar. It was one of the first HD engines with an overhead valves. These were discontinued in the mid 30s. I do not remember the displacement tho.

But make them in India and take on the thriving Enfield segment. Unlike the others HD carries both street cred and the history to go with it. Plus the competition from Enfield isnt all that great whether it's in engineering or quality terms. Price it at a 10-15% premium and I am sure there will be takers for it.

A new Harley Davidson 500cc air cooled single at 1.5 lacs. The perfect stepping stone for emerging markets. I know it's way too radical for a traditional motorcycling company but what exactly does HD stand to lose. This is the day and age when Porsche sells diesel SUVs to survive!

Hehehe, looks like great minds think alike!

Jokes aside HD is looking to take a radical departure from it's steadfast V-twin recipe to a more affordable platform.

New Products

Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia. This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets.

While the traditionalists might cry foul, this move was a no-brainer. As to who the partner, is anyone's guess? Most likely an Indian manufacturer, and the only current one without a major tie-up is Hero. Especially since it does have some distant HD connection a la Buell. All this is of-course rumours and nothing definitive has been announced.

Nonetheless, interesting times ahead for the Indian consumer!

[GTO]

An email from Harley-Davidson. Sharing verbatim:

HARLEY-DAVIDSON ACCELERATES STRATEGY TO BUILD NEXT GENERATION OF RIDERS GLOBALLY

“More Roads to Harley-Davidson” Includes New Products in Additional Motorcycle Segments, Broader Access and Commitment to Strengthen Dealers

MILWAUKEE (July 30, 2018) – To inspire even more people around the world to experience the exhilaration of riding a motorcycle, Harley-Davidson today shared details of its “More Roads to Harley-Davidson” growth plan through 2022.

In a fast-changing world with new consumer demands, these accelerated actions support Harley-Davidson’s 2027 objectives with increased focus and strategic investment to reinvigorate the U.S. business while accelerating the pace of international growth.

“The bold actions we are announcing today leverage Harley-Davidson’s vast capabilities and competitive firepower – our excellence in product development and manufacturing, the global appeal of the brand and of course, our great dealer network,” said Matt Levatich, president and chief executive officer, Harley-Davidson, Inc. “Alongside our existing loyal riders, we will lead the next revolution of two-wheeled freedom to inspire future riders who have yet to even think about the thrill of riding.”

The result of a comprehensive, top-to-bottom assessment incorporating a “customer first” perspective, the More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan includes:

· New Products – keep current riders engaged and inspire new riders by extending heavyweight leadership and unlocking new markets and segments

· Broader Access – meet customers where they are and how they want to engage with a multi-channel retail experience

· Stronger Dealers – drive a performance framework to improve dealer financial strength and the Harley-Davidson customer experience

“We expect this plan will result in an engaged, expanded Harley-Davidson community with a more diverse rider base, along with industry-leading margins and cash flow,” said Levatich.

New Products

Leveraging its industry-leading design and strong manufacturing capabilities, Harley-Davidson plans to offer its most comprehensive lineup of motorcycles, competing in many of the largest and fastest growing segments with a full portfolio of motorcycles across a broad spectrum of price points, power sources, displacements, riding styles and global markets. Highlights include:

· Extending the company’s leadership in heavyweight motorcycles by continuing to develop improved, more technologically-advanced Touring and Cruiser motorcycles that will keep existing Harley-Davidson riders engaged and riding longer.

· Introducing a new modular 500cc to 1250cc middleweight platform of motorcycles that spans three distinct product spaces and four displacements, starting with the company’s first Adventure Touring motorcycle, the Harley-Davidson™ Pan America™ 1250, a 1250cc Custom model and a 975cc Streetfighter model, all of which are planned to launch beginning in 2020. Additional models to broaden coverage in these product spaces will follow through 2022.

· Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia. This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets.

· Leading the electric motorcycle market by launching Harley-Davidson’s first electric motorcycle, LiveWire™, in 2019 -- the first in a broad, no-clutch “twist and go” portfolio of electric two-wheelers designed to establish the company as the leader in the electrification of the sport. LiveWire will be followed by additional models through 2022 to broaden the portfolio with lighter, smaller and even more accessible product options to inspire new riders with new ways to ride.

Broader Access

Harley-Davidson will advance its market delivery approach and meet today’s customer needs by:

· Creating high-engagement customer experiences across all retail channels – including improving and expanding the company’s global digital capabilities by evolving the Harley-Davidson.com experience to integrate with and enhance the dealership retail experience for existing and new customers.

· Establishing strategic alliances with global leading e-commerce providers to extend access to Harley-Davidson to a pool of millions of potential new customers.

· New retail formats -- including smaller, urban storefronts globally to expose the brand to urban populations and drive sales of the expanded Harley-Davidson product portfolio and expand international apparel distribution.

Stronger Dealers

Harley-Davidson’s world-class dealer network is an integral part of the company’s accelerated strategy and critical to overall success. The company will implement a performance framework to significantly enhance the strength of the dealer network and the customer experience, enabling the best-performing and most entrepreneurial dealers to drive innovation and success for themselves and Harley-Davidson -- while providing the premium customer experience the brand is known for across an increasingly diverse product and customer base.

“Harley-Davidson is iconic because we’ve never been static,” said Levatich. “In moving forward, we are tapping into the spirit that drove our founders back in 1903 and every one of the employees and dealers who rose to the challenges faced along the way. Our plan will redefine existing boundaries of our brand – reaching more customers in a way that reinforces all we stand for as a brand and as a company and we can’t wait to kick it into gear.”

Watch a video highlighting key elements of Harley-Davidson’s More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan here https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/e...nity_moreroads.

Funding & Financials

In addition to building riders, the company expects More Roads to Harley-Davidson to create more value, stabilize and strengthen the existing business, improve Harley-Davidson Motor Company Return on Invested Capital (ROIC), increase revenue and earnings, and allow the company to return more cash to shareholders.

The accelerated strategy will require significant investment to change the trajectory of the business globally, and the company plans to fund it entirely through comprehensive cost reduction and reallocation of previously planned investment and resources including operating investment through 2022 of $450 to $550 million and capital investment through 2022 of $225 to $275 million. In total, the company plans More Roads to Harley-Davidson to generate more than $1 billion of incremental annual revenue in 2022 as compared to 2017.

The company believes its accelerated strategy is in line with and reinforces its objectives to drive revenue growth and expand operating margins. The company expects to fund strategic opportunities while maintaining its current investment and return profile and capital allocation strategy.

Harley-Davidson’s funding principles will focus on stabilizing and strengthening the existing business, enhancing the premium brand, and investments in profitable, growth-oriented projects. We expect these principles, along with a disciplined capital allocation focus, will allow Harley-Davidson to execute with improved cost competitiveness and overhead efficiencies.

Additional Information

Additional information can be accessed at H-D.com/acceleratedstrategy. Harley-Davidson will host a question and answer session for analysts focusing on the More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan via webcast at 12:30 p.m. CT on Monday, July 30, 2018 (http://investor.harley-davidson.com/...entations).The audio replay of the analyst Q&A will be available by approximately 3:00 p.m. CT.

Company Background

Harley-Davidson, Inc. is the parent company of Harley-Davidson Motor Company and Harley-Davidson Financial Services. Since 1903, Harley-Davidson Motor Company has fulfilled dreams of personal freedom with custom, cruiser and touring motorcycles, riding experiences and events and a complete line of Harley-Davidson motorcycle parts, accessories, general merchandise, riding gear and apparel. Harley-Davidson Financial Services provides wholesale and retail financing, insurance, extended service and other protection plans and credit card programs to Harley-Davidson dealers and riders in the U.S., Canada and other select international markets. For more information, visit Harley-Davidson's Web site at www.harley-davidson.com.

Forward-Looking Statements

The company intends that all of the matters discussed in this press release are "forward-looking statements" intended to qualify for the safe harbor from liability established by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The statements in this press release are all forward-looking statements that relate to the company’s More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan, including without limitation the company’s plans, its objectives and expectations, the future financial and other results it seeks to attain, the new product introductions it contemplates, and its views of market opportunities and benefits. These forward-looking statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that are likely to cause actual results to differ materially, unfavorably or favorably, from those anticipated as of the date of this press release. Certain of such risks and uncertainties are described below, and others are listed in the company’s July 24, 2018 earnings press release. Shareholders, potential investors, and other readers should consider these factors in evaluating, and not place undue reliance on, the forward-looking statements. The forward-looking statements in this press release are made as of the date of this press release, and the company disclaims any obligation to update such forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances.

The company's ability to meet the objectives, outlooks, targets, guidance and goals noted in this press release depends upon, among other factors, the company’s ability to:

(i) execute its business plans and strategies, including the elements of the More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan, and strengthen its existing business while enabling growth,

(ii) realize expectations concerning market demand for electric models, which may depend in part on the building of necessary infrastructure,

(iii) develop and introduce products on a timely basis that the market accepts, that enable the company to generate desired sales levels and that provide the desired financial returns,

(iv) successfully carry out its global manufacturing and assembly operations,

(v) negotiate and successfully implement a strategic alliance relationship with a local partner in Asia,

(vi) manage risks that arise through expanding international manufacturing, operations and sales,

(vii) effectively implement changes relating to its dealers and distribution methods,

(viii) accurately analyze, predict and react to changing market conditions,

(ix) perform in a manner that enables the company to benefit from market opportunities while competing against existing and new competitors, and

(x) reduce other costs to offset costs of the More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan and redirect capital without adversely affecting its existing business.

In particular:

· The statements in this press release relate to the company’s More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan and generally represent only the company’s goals, aims and objectives regarding the plan and potential results from the plan.

· While many statements use language that might imply a level of certainty about the likelihood that the company will attain these goals, aims and objectives, it is possible that the company will not attain them in the timeframe noted or at all.

· By their nature, the risk and uncertainty associated with these goals, aims, and objectives are greater than that associated with near-term guidance, and should not be construed as guidance.

Therefore, investors should construe these statements regarding the More Roads to Harley-Davidson plan only as goals, aims and objectives rather than promises of future performance or absolute statements.

[libranof1987]

Say, whaaaat!

I don't really have a lot of words; this is baffling.

The President tweeted about the potential boycott on Sunday

"Many @harleydavidson owners plan to boycott the company if manufacturing moves overseas. Great!" Trump wrote. "Most other companies are coming in our direction, including Harley competitors. A really bad move! U.S. will soon have a level playing field, or better."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/12/p...ing/index.html

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by GTO

An email from Harley-Davidson. Sharing verbatim:

· Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia. This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets.

Time to sell Eichermotors if this really happens.
On the other hand, this makes sense.
You cannot scale up automobile business by just doing niche (high margin) products - unless you are a customs garage satisfied with small volume