[Sabareesh]

I had a problem with my Scorpio last evening. I tried starting the car and engine refused to crank. Initially I thought that battery went kaput, I called up exide helpline, they came to rescue within 20 minutes. Finally all checkup was done and I found out that battery was working fine.

Upon checking it again, I found that the wire from battery to the starter motor had broken at the clip's head end. Its a normal aluminium clip which can be broken easily with hands. Wonder why they used such a flimsy material at such a critical joint.

I had to get the car push started. Fortunately I reached home, called up my friendly neighbourhood mechanic today morning and he fixed a new pin.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by m_upreti

There it was the teeny weeny 10 amps fuse for the ECU blown creating all the fuss, the same was replaced from the spare inside the cover (have to remember to replenish it).

its a bad incident but quite an amusing one too!

Originally Posted by shekharlele

By the way, I have been reading quite a bit about the 'advantages' of the non crde engine over the crdi one. So, does that make the cheaper M2DI Scorpio a better bet than the Mhawk (considering the mhawk too uses common rail diesel)

what are the advantages? i think the non-CRDe engine offers it advantages only to hardcore off roaders where simplicity is a boon. for others, the CRDi tech has much more advantages. on the scorpio, this tech has been quite successful & has been proved reliable too, so i think the CRDe & mHawk is much better than the non-CRDe.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

...what are the advantages?

Far more reliable over a long term of even callous usage.
Far better low end torque. Truly gives the feeling of 'tractable diesel engine'!

Will certainly give a lower total cost of ownership. When you consider there is not such a frightful difference in power, kinda makes it a very attractive proposition.

So what is causing all the grief? Emissions! That's the only reason that CRDe had to be brought in!

For somewhat old world people like myself, I'd take the non-CRDe anyday! So there!

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Far more reliable over a long term of even callous usage.
Far better low end torque. Truly gives the feeling of 'tractable diesel engine'!
======
For somewhat old world people like myself, I'd take the non-CRDe anyday! So there!

what about better performance, FE, driveability due to lesser turbo lag & refinement of the CRDi?

[shekharlele]

Hi Anupji,

What could typically go wrong with an engine like the crde? If someone changes oil regularly at 6 month interval and does not go berserk revving it up needlessly, then the engine should maintain itself should it not?

Also, the diesel quality in metros like mumbai seems to be quite acceptable. BTW, do you think there is a lot in common between these 2 engines?

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

what about better performance, FE, driveability due to lesser turbo lag & refinement of the CRDi?

Mostly in the mind, Raj! Do drive each one back to back and see for yourself! Only minor differences.
I'm frankly not too impressed with paper specifications.

Originally Posted by shekharlele

Hi Anupji,

What could typically go wrong with an engine like the crde?

You have to simply read the threads right here at T-BHP to see how much our home-grown makers can botch things up!
A whole school of sensors of dubious origin, shoddy workmanship, lax standards, give-a-damn attitude of Makers .... heck, we've got enough troubles for a lifetime!

[gd1418]

I'm, per se, not against development and new technology; my concern is about the reliability of the components.

Why am I saying this? On our Leh trip, that consisted of 4 Scorpios, mine was the only one that was a non-CRDe of 2004 vintage.

One of the CRDe SLXs suffered a fan belt breakage near the Nakeela Pass. You shall read all about it, as & when the travelogue is written.

That got Roshun and me discussing and I discovered that the the CRDe don't have an accelerator wire. They have a sensor instead.

The question arose that what if the sensor went kaput in wilderness. Apart from 'Limp Home' feature there is nothing one could do. At least in the non-CRDe, you could tie some string to the accelerator phlange in the engine and pull by hand to reach the nearest mechanic or whatever.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by gd1418

I'm, per se, not against development and new technology; my concern is about the reliability of the components.
...

Worded much better than I seem to have conveyed!

I am ALL for tech, but it is not as simple as tech components being made well.
There is a whole culture that MUST accompany technological progress. And we sorely lack that attitude/culture!
The best component will let you down if fitted with a cavalier attitude!

That's where the likes of Honda and Toyota reign supreme!

[shekharlele]

You guys have a point. Trouble with new technology is the fact that if something was to go wrong, you can't fix it without calibration, computerised assessment and what have you. But then, technology should ensure that things would rarely go wrong. That I do not see in the Indian car market. Actually, way back in 1967, my dad drove all the way back to India from the UK (stockport) in a land rover station wagon. The only problems faced were the need to re-inforce the rear leafs which was done in yugoslavia. And there was a axle scare when they had to use the handbrake in turkey due to brake failure (hydraulic fuel leak).

The car was purchased as a used car, then the team (dad, Jeff Boland, Jeff Shaw and Neville Whitcroft) did the car up themselves. Firestone sponsored the tyres and duckham oils sponsored the lubricating oil. Heinz food gave them tinned food. The total travel time was 2.5 months covering a distance of 10,000 miles.

Stockport - Dover - Austend - Crossed English Channel by boat - France - Germany - Italy - Yugoslavia - Greece - Turkey - Iran - Afghanistan - Pakistan (dad flew from Kabul to delhi as he could not go through pak).

It was the most amazing journey. And he is blushing as I am writing this. The point is, even 50 years back, land rover stood for reliability. I wonder which SUV in India could do this kind of a trek today.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by shekharlele

\
It was the most amazing journey. And he is blushing as I am writing this. The point is, even 50 years back, land rover stood for reliability. I wonder which SUV in India could do this kind of a trek today.

and what the heck are you doing young man? The most off-roading you'll see is the Mumbai roads?

[shekharlele]

Hi Redliner,

I knew that was coming. Yeah, I really have'nt done justice to the stuff my dad did in his day and age. But I want to. Now with my scorpio, I will definitely plan something. By the way, does T-BHP have any rallies and stuff? (sorry mods, if this is off topic)

[gd1418]

Having said that, except for reasons that are economic and with new jargon like VFM floating around, people buy Scorpios & Safaris.

I own both, so no need to pillory me.

Why is Pajero a legend even though its technology is outdated, no major component change and it sports that DI engine? Trust & reliability are the two major factors that drive this vehicle.

Originally Posted by shekharlele

You guys have a point. Trouble with new technology is the fact that if something was to go wrong, you can't fix it without calibration, computerised assessment and what have you. But then, technology should ensure that things would rarely go wrong. That I do not see in the Indian car market. Actually, way back in 1967, my dad drove all the way back to India from the UK (stockport) in a land rover station wagon. The only problems faced were the need to re-inforce the rear leafs which was done in yugoslavia. And there was a axle scare when they had to use the handbrake in turkey due to brake failure (hydraulic fuel leak).

The car was purchased as a used car, then the team (dad, Jeff Boland, Jeff Shaw and Neville Whitcroft) did the car up themselves. Firestone sponsored the tyres and duckham oils sponsored the lubricating oil. Heinz food gave them tinned food. The total travel time was 2.5 months covering a distance of 10,000 miles.

Stockport - Dover - Austend - Crossed English Channel by boat - France - Germany - Italy - Yugoslavia - Greece - Turkey - Iran - Afghanistan - Pakistan (dad flew from Kabul to delhi as he could not go through pak).

It was the most amazing journey. And he is blushing as I am writing this. The point is, even 50 years back, land rover stood for reliability. I wonder which SUV in India could do this kind of a trek today.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by shekharlele

Actually, way back in 1967, my dad drove all the way back to India from the UK (stockport) in a land rover station wagon. The only problems faced were the need to re-inforce the rear leafs which was done in yugoslavia. And there was a axle scare when they had to use the handbrake in turkey due to brake failure (hydraulic fuel leak).

The car was purchased as a used car, then the team (dad, Jeff Boland, Jeff Shaw and Neville Whitcroft) did the car up themselves. Firestone sponsored the tyres and duckham oils sponsored the lubricating oil. Heinz food gave them tinned food. The total travel time was 2.5 months covering a distance of 10,000 miles.

Stockport - Dover - Austend - Crossed English Channel by boat - France - Germany - Italy - Yugoslavia - Greece - Turkey - Iran - Afghanistan - Pakistan (dad flew from Kabul to delhi as he could not go through pak).

It was the most amazing journey. And he is blushing as I am writing this. The point is, even 50 years back, land rover stood for reliability. I wonder which SUV in India could do this kind of a trek today.

Unfortunately, Pakis don't like Indians driving through their country nowadays. Alas, I have been sitting on a drive plan for India-Europe since the year 2000, and hanging outside Pak Embassy - but they refuse to budge.

[suman]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

For somewhat old world people like myself, I'd take the non-CRDe anyday! So there!

You and a whole lot of others as well . You do know, of course, that the Scorpio taxis plying the Leh route are (almost all) non-CRDE or M2DI. Hardly any CRDEs. And absolutely no M Hawks!

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by suman

You do know, of course, that the Scorpio taxis plying the Leh route are (almost all) non-CRDE or M2DI. Hardly any CRDEs. And absolutely no M Hawks!

Of course I know! In fact I explained the 'birth' of the M2DI in an earlier post. Taxi drivers in the hills were simply not buying the CRDe!!
If a 4WD option is offered in non-CRDe Scorpio now, I'd go for it! The M2DI is a little tooooooooo much, LOL! But if reliability and 'getting the job done' are the ONLY requirements, nothing can beat it!