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-   -   Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/120460-skoda-vw-group-engine-oils-17.html)

Follow up to that news.

Hey
Thanks for sharing the link.
After reading it, I dug a bit deeper to understand what the issue was.
It seems to be an issue of wrong labeling and wrong marketing claims.

So a UK based lubricant watchdog setup by the UK Lubricant Association (UKLA) - Verification of Lubricant Specifications (VLS) took Mannol's parent company SCT Vertriebs to task based on complaints that it was selling oil which claims to meet multiple standards which were 'mutually exclusive'. Attaching VLS's statements below.



Succinct version - Mannol claimed their 5W30 oil was compatible with multiple VW standards - VW 504 00/507 00 as well as VW 505 01 (almost a decade ago, there were long discussions regarding these very same standards in this thread rl:. Check them out)
According to VLS this was technically unfeasible to manufacture. When asked to provide documentation to back it claims, Mannol was only able to produce certifications/approvals for the VW 504 00/507 00 standard. So in the end they had to re-label the product accordingly and VLS resolved the complaint.

True, the recommended oil is most likely VW 507 00. But in India most ASCs hardly stock this grade. They use and recommend VW 505 00 grade claiming 'hotter local conditions'. There has been lot of discussion regarding the correct grade for VAG cars in India in this very same thread.

Nowadays there are few other brands which are available in the market - Liqui Moly 4200, Meguin, Rowe and even Mannol. Some of these might not be fully synthetic.
If anyone is keen on VAG branded oil its available at Motorparts Junction in 0W30 spec.

That makes sense. I read that the additive packages to conform with these various standards were mutually exclusive. I thought they figured it out how to put it all together, and VLS tested it and retracted the complaint. Looks like they just removed one label to become compliant.


EDIT: I looked at the thread, and it seems this is much more murkier than i imagined. I don't think there is any additional information in my post.

I doubt it's just the viscosity that is different. Probably there are other properties that matter. And if it was suitable to use a different viscosity in hotter climates, VAG/ Audi/ Porsche would have issued the information to service centres. (EDIT: Upon re-reading: Are you saying that Authorised service centres don't stock it??? The Audi i go to has always used Castrol edge professional. I mistakenly read that local workshops don't stock it.)

Either way, i wouldn't be making layman decisions on oil viscosity (or standards), because if there are other hydraulics dependant components in the engine, thing may not stay within layman calculations. (and the chemistry in modern oils are pretty complex. Simply looking at ACEA or API standards in a gist can show the insane properties of these oils) Of course one may not experience catastrophic failure in the short run, but if they plan to keep these diesels in the long run, they tend to be pretty bullet proof, if maintained correctly. Just following the manufacturer recommendations might be the easiest way to ensure this.

On a slightly related note, i had a starter burn out on my 2.0 TDI after i mixed a litre of 5W 40 along with the correct 507 5W 30, using warm weather reasoning :D. I won't attribute it completely to the oil, but thicker oil may further have strained a starter that already draws high current to cold start a diesel compression engine.

I never knew VAG had their own oil! The VW service centers i've been to have used Castrol Magnatec Professional, and Audi Castrol edge professional.

Yes, there are other properties that matter. The additives package is different for each grade. So their characteristics are different. There is table shared on multiple VAG forums which compares the different oil grades. Not sure if it was shared here before. So attached it below.


More + means performs better

In the past VW had printed warnings about 5W30 and 507 00 oil in its manuals. Some BHPians have shared screenshots of VW - here and here. I think it has more to do with fuel quality than climate. Although fuel quality in India should have improved considerably after BS6.

Can't comment about Audi ASCs but Skoda and VW ASCs I had visited in the past hardly stocked 507 00, they used 505 01 or 505 00 instead. Many other Bhpians in this very thread have stated the same.

VAG oil is just a rebranded version of their oil partner's product.
VAG partners with a lubricant supplier sometime based region or country (IIRC in India they had partnered with Shell initially and Castrol recently. In North America its Exxon et al) who supply oil VAG compliant oil to their ASCs and sell retail versions of same. So, VAG takes this same oil and just sticks their label on it and sells it at an eye watering premium. Even BMW does the same their Twin Power Turbo oils are rebranded versions of their oil partner.

This table has been superceded. VW now uses 0W20 grade for all cars post 2021. Especially in India. It's Specifications is the newest VW509 and this is NOT usable in cars of earlier generations. Say VW502/505 spec oils.

Yeah, thats true VW uses VW 508 00/509 00 for all its new vehicles which is stocked by all ASCs. But the table is relevant for our discussion because we were focusing on VW 507 00 and its lack of immediate availability.

Certainly! Here's a reframed version:

Hello, I own a Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI with an EA 288 engine, and the recommended oil specification is VW 507 00. I've previously used Liqui Moly, even though it's VW 505 00 spec, and mixed it with Liqui Moly Ceratec, resulting in a super smooth performance. However, for my upcoming oil change, I've ordered Mannol 7715 LongLife 504/507 engine oil. I'll share my detailed experience with it soon. Additionally, Castrol Edge 5W30LL is another option available in the market.

Does this apply to 2021 manufactured cars as well ?

I own a 2021/ Jan manufactured Rapid 1.0 TSI and the ASC still uses 5w40 but I am not very happy with the oil. The car was more sporty and smooth during the factory fill oil till 14K kms until the first service was done and there was considerable change that was immediately noticed after the first service.
Smoothness and NVH levels increased after the first service. No change in fuel economy though.

Anyone who has used 0w20 in their 2020/2021 1.0 TSI's as the same engine in Kushak/Taigun/Slavia is getting 0w20 at the asc ?

Also how cumbersome is it to get oil from Skoda ASC (Would want to change oil on my own) ?

This is a good resource with brief about various VW oils, compatibility, evolution, backward compatibility with caution, etc

https://www.blauparts.com/blog/vw-oil-specs-german.html

I am still researching whether 5w30 or 5w40 would be better for my Rapid 1.5 TDi CR AT 2016 Gen 1 FL!

For your engine I suppose the recommended is 505 01 spec. This is mostly available in 5/0w-30 weight. I would highly recommend to try the LM Toptec 4200 5w30. Quite popular with VAG diesels.

For my 1.0 TSI, I tried the Mobil 1 0w40, which is highly regarded by enthusiasts. Nothing to write about as of yet (ran 3K as of now) but at operating temperatures feels a bit smooth than the stock oil.

505 01 spec is available mostly (only?) in 5W40 in India. LM only has semi-synth oils in India for this category and I want fully synthetic.

Is your standard VW 507? If so, why don't you go for 5W30? you don't need 0W in India unless specified. 40 is too heavy and viscous. I wish I could go to 5W30 but mine might have used 5W40 in the past and is run 93K kms so I might need to stick with 5W40.

I am happy to recommend a good FNG on Kudlu Road if you would like.