K&N filters

rohin · 4th April 2005, 14:51

This isn't flamebait please. I own a top-of-the-line Ford Fusion and was thinking of going in for a K&N stock replacement filter. Almost every single person I talked to was gung-ho on the filters...till I stumbled across this discussion on the efficacy of K&N's on Autoweek forums (http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.js...art=0&tstart=0). The thread contains a link to an ISO test (http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm) of various filters, though for diesel engines. The results are quite revealing - because K&N fares consistently near the bottom of a 8 of its peers on counts like ability to capture dirt, dirt holding capacity and amount of dirt that is allowed to pass through.

Back on the forums many users seem to ascribe the alleged performance increase (placebo?) that K&N owners feel to the throaty sound that emanates from the engine due to the better air flow. In fact a few people claim that their mileage actually went down after installing K&N's!

I'm obviously having second thoughts now...just thought I'd let other forum members in on this too.

sbfx · 5th April 2005, 04:03

Well when I had modded my corsa 1.4 with a Pipercross cone filter she used to drive like a pig in the lower rpm (flat spot) range but used give a nice induction note in the mid range but in the long run the car just wasn’t drivable therefore I landed up going with the stock filter eventually, I don’t know how the K&N is.

But to answer your question about the placebo effect well the best thing to do is try it yourself maybe it makes a difference maybe not but at least you would have the satisfaction of trying it yourself. There’s just no objective way of knowing if it made a difference, as there are no dyno's to verify the results. The most important thing is to be satisfied by giving it a go to know if you like it or not, if you do but in reality it maybe degrading the performance well don’t bother as you are enjoying it even more.

This is just my perspective on things in general I’m sure others would disagree with me here.

Regards,
Satyam.

dragger · 5th April 2005, 04:19

hey buddy sbfx, the piper cross filter's that are made are made more towards the purpose of a drag. what happens is the dirt intact capacity is increased because the filter has a different mesh type which is made in a way to support maximum air intake. hence it's not recommended for an everyday purpose but yes under drag conditions the piper cross filter's performance is just amazing. well k&n on the other hand it's just too perfect. hehe. Atleast when it comes to daily use and i would also like to tell you rohin, i am a performance parts stockist here in mumbai. i've installed over 50 K&N filter's what happens is it all depends on the way you install the filter. the box replacement filter's are ideal. i mean there is no way you can have a drop in fuel efficiency with a box replacement filter. well the universal filter on the other hand if not installed properly it will obviously lead to a drop in average. what mostly happens is people who install filter's just remove the stock filter from the air box. close the air box and then connect a pipe from the intake side of the air box to the K&N universal (conical) filter. now what happens here is that the filter is left some where next to the engine bay and hence it sucks in hot air and hence no raise in efficiency. the end result is a noticable raise in performance but with a drop in fuel efficiency. so by the end of it you have an unsatisfied customer. so how we install the filter is with custom made piping which is insulated and the filter lands up somewhere near the back of the front bumper and hence maximum cold air intake with minimum hot air from the engine bay and the insulation helps maintaining the cold air till it reaches the throttle body. if you do need any more info or any performance parts just feel free to pm me. cheers buddy!

iceman91 · 5th April 2005, 10:41

agree with dragger...piper cross is made for racing not daily use. also a good install of a K&N will definitely improve performance as well as fe. but a basd one can result in a loss of both

ZenGT · 5th April 2005, 14:38

i agree with dragger cold air is all you need in our kinda climate there cant be any rise or even stability of efficiancy...

sbfx · 5th April 2005, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZENGT

i agree with dragger cold air is all you need in our kinda climate there cant be any rise or even stability of efficiancy...

Ya that’s absolutely correct but its rather easy to say but diff to achieve a cone filter will no matter what will suck in hot air from the engine bay in a country like ours.

Satyam.

coloneljasi · 6th April 2005, 01:04

As most of my co-members would say,try out the K&N filter for yourself before passing judgement.There's always two sides of a story,so fit oneWe've sold quite a few K&N stock replacement filters in Kerala,and all our customers are satisified with the FE and performance,without exception.As to the effects of using K&Ns,I'm yet see any complaint related to the filtering efficiency.We've seen a substantiated increase in the performance and a marginal,very marginal,increase in the FE of these cars,as have our customers.It's in no way imaginary or speculated.I can't comment on the conical filters and typhoon kits though,as we're yet to fit one,but going by the performance of the stock replacement,they should be even better....
By the way,do enquire with your Ford dealer about your Fusion's warranty,most manufacturers may refuse warranty when non-OE parts are used in a vehicle.I work at a Hyundai dealer (who are also dealers for HM-Mitsubishi,Ford,TATA commercial vehicles and Honda two-wheelers....and...you get the idea)and we advise our customers about this,the choice is left to them.This does not necessarily mean that the K&N is harmful,it's just a matter of policy.We're having K&Ns tested by our principal companies also.....no negative results,to date.

dragger · 6th April 2005, 05:24

hey people thanks a lot for your support on the K&N..well all i have to say is it's an amazing example of what technology can give us...so all i have to say is just try it to believe it...cheers....!!

Boom Shiva · 6th April 2005, 12:08

Hey Dragger I'm interested in a K&N filter for my Lancer. Could you tell me what options are available and how much they cost? I tried to PM you but your box is full. Thanks.

RX135 · 6th April 2005, 13:11

Just curious! Why dont all car manufactures put K & N filters on their cars by default? I am sure, 4K will not cause much price variation for 5-6L car. What is the flip side of it?

speedsatya · 6th April 2005, 13:50

u get stok replacement filters for 3.2k in mumbai.its not 4k

RX135 · 6th April 2005, 15:16

4K was just some approximate figure for comparison. What I am asking is, why are manufacturers not using K & N filter by default on their vehicles? Are there any disadvantages in using it? Cost doesn't seem to be the criteria.

dragger · 6th April 2005, 18:37

hey boom shiva surely i can arrange for a filter for your lancer..it depends on how much your willing to spend and what kind f performance are you looking for...if you can think out of the box then we can go in for a FIPK kit or even a universal hyper perforance filter with a custom made cold air induction kit...so do let me know...ive cleared my inbox now...so just pm me your requirements...and then we can get the work done...cheers....!!

mohit · 6th April 2005, 18:44

Quote:

u get stok replacement filters for 3.2k in mumbai.its not 4k

Hey Satya, you have driven your car with a paper filter and now a stock replacement K&N.... any changes?

dragger · 7th April 2005, 03:28

hey rx 135 mostly these manufacturers have to keep up with certain norms and standards of the car...now the K&N filter is some what of a street racing performance upgrade and it is not necessary that the manufacturer can get car passed legally with street racing performance already mounted on the car...that's my little bit that i could give you...may be wrong but that's the only reason i can see...cheers...!!

4th April 2005, 14:51	#1
rohin Newbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1 Thanked: 0 Times	K&N filters This isn't flamebait please. I own a top-of-the-line Ford Fusion and was thinking of going in for a K&N stock replacement filter. Almost every single person I talked to was gung-ho on the filters...till I stumbled across this discussion on the efficacy of K&N's on Autoweek forums (http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.js...art=0&tstart=0). The thread contains a link to an ISO test (http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm) of various filters, though for diesel engines. The results are quite revealing - because K&N fares consistently near the bottom of a 8 of its peers on counts like ability to capture dirt, dirt holding capacity and amount of dirt that is allowed to pass through. Back on the forums many users seem to ascribe the alleged performance increase (placebo?) that K&N owners feel to the throaty sound that emanates from the engine due to the better air flow. In fact a few people claim that their mileage actually went down after installing K&N's! I'm obviously having second thoughts now...just thought I'd let other forum members in on this too.
	() Thanks

5th April 2005, 04:03	#2
sbfx BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 75 Thanked: 0 Times	Well when I had modded my corsa 1.4 with a Pipercross cone filter she used to drive like a pig in the lower rpm (flat spot) range but used give a nice induction note in the mid range but in the long run the car just wasn’t drivable therefore I landed up going with the stock filter eventually, I don’t know how the K&N is. But to answer your question about the placebo effect well the best thing to do is try it yourself maybe it makes a difference maybe not but at least you would have the satisfaction of trying it yourself. There’s just no objective way of knowing if it made a difference, as there are no dyno's to verify the results. The most important thing is to be satisfied by giving it a go to know if you like it or not, if you do but in reality it maybe degrading the performance well don’t bother as you are enjoying it even more. This is just my perspective on things in general I’m sure others would disagree with me here. Regards, Satyam.
	() Thanks

5th April 2005, 04:19	#3
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	hey buddy sbfx, the piper cross filter's that are made are made more towards the purpose of a drag. what happens is the dirt intact capacity is increased because the filter has a different mesh type which is made in a way to support maximum air intake. hence it's not recommended for an everyday purpose but yes under drag conditions the piper cross filter's performance is just amazing. well k&n on the other hand it's just too perfect. hehe. Atleast when it comes to daily use and i would also like to tell you rohin, i am a performance parts stockist here in mumbai. i've installed over 50 K&N filter's what happens is it all depends on the way you install the filter. the box replacement filter's are ideal. i mean there is no way you can have a drop in fuel efficiency with a box replacement filter. well the universal filter on the other hand if not installed properly it will obviously lead to a drop in average. what mostly happens is people who install filter's just remove the stock filter from the air box. close the air box and then connect a pipe from the intake side of the air box to the K&N universal (conical) filter. now what happens here is that the filter is left some where next to the engine bay and hence it sucks in hot air and hence no raise in efficiency. the end result is a noticable raise in performance but with a drop in fuel efficiency. so by the end of it you have an unsatisfied customer. so how we install the filter is with custom made piping which is insulated and the filter lands up somewhere near the back of the front bumper and hence maximum cold air intake with minimum hot air from the engine bay and the insulation helps maintaining the cold air till it reaches the throttle body. if you do need any more info or any performance parts just feel free to pm me. cheers buddy! Last edited by Aditya : 8th November 2008 at 08:48.
	() Thanks

5th April 2005, 10:41	#4
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	agree with dragger...piper cross is made for racing not daily use. also a good install of a K&N will definitely improve performance as well as fe. but a basd one can result in a loss of both
	() Thanks

5th April 2005, 14:38	#5
ZenGT BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 90 Thanked: 2 Times	i agree with dragger cold air is all you need in our kinda climate there cant be any rise or even stability of efficiancy...
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 01:04	#7
coloneljasi BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KL-11 Posts: 686 Thanked: 251 Times View My Garage	As most of my co-members would say,try out the K&N filter for yourself before passing judgement.There's always two sides of a story,so fit oneWe've sold quite a few K&N stock replacement filters in Kerala,and all our customers are satisified with the FE and performance,without exception.As to the effects of using K&Ns,I'm yet see any complaint related to the filtering efficiency.We've seen a substantiated increase in the performance and a marginal,very marginal,increase in the FE of these cars,as have our customers.It's in no way imaginary or speculated.I can't comment on the conical filters and typhoon kits though,as we're yet to fit one,but going by the performance of the stock replacement,they should be even better.... By the way,do enquire with your Ford dealer about your Fusion's warranty,most manufacturers may refuse warranty when non-OE parts are used in a vehicle.I work at a Hyundai dealer (who are also dealers for HM-Mitsubishi,Ford,TATA commercial vehicles and Honda two-wheelers....and...you get the idea)and we advise our customers about this,the choice is left to them.This does not necessarily mean that the K&N is harmful,it's just a matter of policy.We're having K&Ns tested by our principal companies also.....no negative results,to date.
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 05:24	#8
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	hey people thanks a lot for your support on the K&N..well all i have to say is it's an amazing example of what technology can give us...so all i have to say is just try it to believe it...cheers....!!
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 12:08	#9
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Hey Dragger I'm interested in a K&N filter for my Lancer. Could you tell me what options are available and how much they cost? I tried to PM you but your box is full. Thanks.
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 13:11	#10
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	Just curious! Why dont all car manufactures put K & N filters on their cars by default? I am sure, 4K will not cause much price variation for 5-6L car. What is the flip side of it?
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 13:50	#11
speedsatya Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: bangalore/manga Posts: 3,169 Thanked: 738 Times View My Garage	u get stok replacement filters for 3.2k in mumbai.its not 4k
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 15:16	#12
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	4K was just some approximate figure for comparison. What I am asking is, why are manufacturers not using K & N filter by default on their vehicles? Are there any disadvantages in using it? Cost doesn't seem to be the criteria.
	() Thanks

6th April 2005, 18:37	#13
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	hey boom shiva surely i can arrange for a filter for your lancer..it depends on how much your willing to spend and what kind f performance are you looking for...if you can think out of the box then we can go in for a FIPK kit or even a universal hyper perforance filter with a custom made cold air induction kit...so do let me know...ive cleared my inbox now...so just pm me your requirements...and then we can get the work done...cheers....!!
	() Thanks

7th April 2005, 03:28	#15
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	hey rx 135 mostly these manufacturers have to keep up with certain norms and standards of the car...now the K&N filter is some what of a street racing performance upgrade and it is not necessary that the manufacturer can get car passed legally with street racing performance already mounted on the car...that's my little bit that i could give you...may be wrong but that's the only reason i can see...cheers...!!
	() Thanks