K&N filters

ananthkamath · 8th November 2005, 23:35

You are forgetting that manufacturers look at every single nut & bolt with an eye towards cost. This does not mean that they use substandard materials everywhere.

The 3 examples that you gave: a majority of people will likely not even notice the improvement due to the usage of these....So the manufacturers dont see the point in reducing their profit margin by a good 4k unless they are convinced that the customer perceives it as substantial added value. In other words, perceived value always makes it way onto a product.

About the 4-1 vs. 4-2-1, I think you mean stock exhaust manifold vs. 4-2-1 header. The former does not qualify as a 4-1 header though it looks like one.

Kaizer Sozay · 9th November 2005, 22:34

I was Watching this TV serial called Overhaulin which airs on Discovery Travel & Living, Where they modify cars, They focus a lot on body work and less on engine mods. but i have seen that in most cases they fit an air filter that looks a lot like the typhoon intake K&N. And these guys are supposedly the best.

ananthkamath · 9th November 2005, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajalphonso

Where they modify cars, They focus a lot on body work and less on engine mods.

That pretty much shows what they are the best at.

So that doesnt prove anything.

nitrous · 10th November 2005, 02:02

Ananth, lets forget K&N for a moment. Lets discuss about the concept of these gauze filters. Just using these oiled gauze filters make a positive difference from the stock paper or foam material. Can u explain about this??

The reason i'm asking is because there should be a logical reason why the K&Ns show some improvement in a few factors just by the difference in the material used.

ananthkamath · 10th November 2005, 09:22

What kind of positive difference? Can you please explain...

rzoster · 10th November 2005, 09:32

One reason why the manufacturers don't install these filters might be because of the increased noise levels, with which they may not be able to meet the standards.
But is this discussion restricted to just K&N filters or any intake filter in general? I'm sure an increase in air-flow would show some improvement in the power output. If that's the case, why are K&N filters eliciting such mixed-bag of responses? Incorrect installation?

fieroid · 10th November 2005, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

But wont that reduce the airflow capability you gained on account of the K&N?

What was the situation with the stock filter...did you find any dirt with that?

My only argument here is that, if the question is of cost vs. gain, then I am sure the K&N loses out.

On the technical front, personally (I repeat, personally) I feel that a good, large-diameter (larger than stock) foam filter is more than enough to do the job (because thats what I have used all the time, even on high-rpm race 2-strokes). K&Ns are no good at all on the dirt track.

fieroid, as an aside, do our hosur friends use K&N? I think not, though I am not sure....

Ananth

ok, lemme answer one by one..
using foam wraps do restrict a bit of flow, bit will def keep more dust away and since k&n is known to improve airflow by 300%, its fine if its just 200% to me!

on my stock filter i def see some dust settled and yes the k&n was also dust, but was filtering better than a stock filter for sure....
yeah, the k&n looses on the cost vs gain battle, however some still prefer them..
i frankly might not buy a k&n anymore, would prefer a UNI instead...

nope, the hosur boys dont use k&n!

protege · 12th November 2005, 15:19

What's this Hosur guy stuff? Am I missing something?
BTW, I also have a K&N stock filter.. although I can't prove whether the BHP have gained or not.. I feel it has.. anyway.. my FE got improved by 2kmpl.. previously I used to get 12-13kmpl in my carb zen.. now it gives 14-14.4.. and I travel through the ver congested 100ft/Ring road in koramangla, B'ghatta road for my daily commute.. Probably.. K&N may be good for carb engines which are not optimally tuned as in MPFI. So MPFI engines don't see the gain.. and carb engines can see that.. any thoughts?

revtech · 12th November 2005, 18:17

hey protege i have a similar question as yours.when a K&N filter is installed in a carb engine it also makes more noise than when installed in an mpfi engine.whats the reason for that ??

rev

shibujp · 12th November 2005, 19:20

Haven't used K&N(planning to) so cannot speak from personal experience. But based on what I have read on this forum and from the K&N site here are a few of my opinions:

- on the dust filteration aspect I think the oil applied to the K&N filter has an important part to play. And yes a K&N filter does need maitainence. It is not as if you can dump it in your engine bay and forget it.You will have to wash and re-oil it periodically. Only..while you throw away the stock filter and replace it with a new one you can reuse the K&N filter.

- on the value for money. You buy a K&N and I think you might break even on the cost if you use your car for 1 million miles as K&N says their filters are good for.

. If you gain any improvement in FE then you'll break even on the cost faster. But then nobody said performance came cheap:-D. And engines are mechanical devices..the more performance you extract out of the stock engines by modification(depending on the type of mods of course) the more wear and tear and consequently less life. Why do you think F1 engines are good for only 1000 kms or so after which they have to be completely rebuilt. Performance is not about value for money it is about value for the soul

- Manufacturers have to cater to the majority of car buyers not the minority which we petro heads are...so assume Maruti decides to put in 2500/- K&N air filters in the M800. This is in place of the stock one which costs 90/-. I don't think the majority of the population care whether it is K&N or stock ...what they might care about though is the 2400/- increase. So too with free flow exhausts...my parents hate the sound

.

whaddya say to these ramblings?

Drive on,
Shibu. l

fieroid · 14th November 2005, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by protege

What's this Hosur guy stuff? Am I missing something?
BTW, I also have a K&N stock filter.. although I can't prove whether the BHP have gained or not.. I feel it has.. anyway.. my FE got improved by 2kmpl.. previously I used to get 12-13kmpl in my carb zen.. now it gives 14-14.4.. and I travel through the ver congested 100ft/Ring road in koramangla, B'ghatta road for my daily commute.. Probably.. K&N may be good for carb engines which are not optimally tuned as in MPFI. So MPFI engines don't see the gain.. and carb engines can see that.. any thoughts?

hosur guys means TVS!

in a carb'd engine, u will have to tune the carb to get the maximum benefit from a freeflow filter and u will have to play wid air/fuel ratio...
however in an MPFI engine there is no tuning required!
a freeflow filter works better on a fuel injected engine!

Slash · 20th November 2005, 22:35

Can someone pls. tell me how much difference a K&N conical filter would make in a Baleno?

imjimmy · 24th November 2005, 10:18

Quote:

Can someone pls. tell me how much difference a K&N conical filter would make in a Baleno?

Reading this thread and various others on K&N on this forum, i have got the impression that it will be more safer to put the stock replacement filter in the Baleno instead of the Conical one. I think the filtration of the stock replacement filter might be better than the conical one and it might be less risky in rains.There is also the matter of installing the conical filter properly for optimum function.

But then the performance of the conical filter would obviously be better. So your choice.

filcord · 24th November 2005, 10:40

I contacted the local K&N dealer in Goa, for a stock size filter for my Baleno. To my surprise, he did not talk about the oil used for cleaning the filter, and told me it was to be cleaned by dusting it with a compressor. When I insisted, he disclosed that nobody uses the oil and anyway nobody knows much about these filters... the approach was so casual, I am appalled!

MrBoombastic · 24th November 2005, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by filcord

I contacted the local K&N dealer in Goa, for a stock size filter for my Baleno. To my surprise, he did not talk about the oil used for cleaning the filter, and told me it was to be cleaned by dusting it with a compressor. When I insisted, he disclosed that nobody uses the oil and anyway nobody knows much about these filters... the approach was so casual, I am appalled!

This is just one reason why I have often said modifying and fiddling with cars in India is not always a good idea. Not saying that there aren't a few out there who can really do a great job technically, but most are really not reliable. The same applies when people want to increase tyre size by 2" or more without proper research.

8th November 2005, 23:35	#76
ananthkamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mangalore Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	You are forgetting that manufacturers look at every single nut & bolt with an eye towards cost. This does not mean that they use substandard materials everywhere. The 3 examples that you gave: a majority of people will likely not even notice the improvement due to the usage of these....So the manufacturers dont see the point in reducing their profit margin by a good 4k unless they are convinced that the customer perceives it as substantial added value. In other words, perceived value always makes it way onto a product. About the 4-1 vs. 4-2-1, I think you mean stock exhaust manifold vs. 4-2-1 header. The former does not qualify as a 4-1 header though it looks like one.
	() Thanks

9th November 2005, 22:34	#77
Kaizer Sozay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 333 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	I was Watching this TV serial called Overhaulin which airs on Discovery Travel & Living, Where they modify cars, They focus a lot on body work and less on engine mods. but i have seen that in most cases they fit an air filter that looks a lot like the typhoon intake K&N. And these guys are supposedly the best.
	() Thanks

10th November 2005, 02:02	#79
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Ananth, lets forget K&N for a moment. Lets discuss about the concept of these gauze filters. Just using these oiled gauze filters make a positive difference from the stock paper or foam material. Can u explain about this?? The reason i'm asking is because there should be a logical reason why the K&Ns show some improvement in a few factors just by the difference in the material used.
	() Thanks

10th November 2005, 09:22	#80
ananthkamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mangalore Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	What kind of positive difference? Can you please explain...
	() Thanks

10th November 2005, 09:32	#81
rzoster Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 12 Thanked: 0 Times	One reason why the manufacturers don't install these filters might be because of the increased noise levels, with which they may not be able to meet the standards. But is this discussion restricted to just K&N filters or any intake filter in general? I'm sure an increase in air-flow would show some improvement in the power output. If that's the case, why are K&N filters eliciting such mixed-bag of responses? Incorrect installation?
	() Thanks

12th November 2005, 15:19	#83
protege BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 51 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	What's this Hosur guy stuff? Am I missing something? BTW, I also have a K&N stock filter.. although I can't prove whether the BHP have gained or not.. I feel it has.. anyway.. my FE got improved by 2kmpl.. previously I used to get 12-13kmpl in my carb zen.. now it gives 14-14.4.. and I travel through the ver congested 100ft/Ring road in koramangla, B'ghatta road for my daily commute.. Probably.. K&N may be good for carb engines which are not optimally tuned as in MPFI. So MPFI engines don't see the gain.. and carb engines can see that.. any thoughts?
	() Thanks

12th November 2005, 18:17	#84
revtech Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,992 Thanked: 38 Times View My Garage	hey protege i have a similar question as yours.when a K&N filter is installed in a carb engine it also makes more noise than when installed in an mpfi engine.whats the reason for that ?? rev
	() Thanks

12th November 2005, 19:20	#85
shibujp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,753 Thanked: 3,225 Times View My Garage	K&N ... Haven't used K&N(planning to) so cannot speak from personal experience. But based on what I have read on this forum and from the K&N site here are a few of my opinions: - on the dust filteration aspect I think the oil applied to the K&N filter has an important part to play. And yes a K&N filter does need maitainence. It is not as if you can dump it in your engine bay and forget it.You will have to wash and re-oil it periodically. Only..while you throw away the stock filter and replace it with a new one you can reuse the K&N filter. - on the value for money. You buy a K&N and I think you might break even on the cost if you use your car for 1 million miles as K&N says their filters are good for. . If you gain any improvement in FE then you'll break even on the cost faster. But then nobody said performance came cheap:-D. And engines are mechanical devices..the more performance you extract out of the stock engines by modification(depending on the type of mods of course) the more wear and tear and consequently less life. Why do you think F1 engines are good for only 1000 kms or so after which they have to be completely rebuilt. Performance is not about value for money it is about value for the soul - Manufacturers have to cater to the majority of car buyers not the minority which we petro heads are...so assume Maruti decides to put in 2500/- K&N air filters in the M800. This is in place of the stock one which costs 90/-. I don't think the majority of the population care whether it is K&N or stock ...what they might care about though is the 2400/- increase. So too with free flow exhausts...my parents hate the sound . whaddya say to these ramblings? Drive on, Shibu. l
	() Thanks

20th November 2005, 22:35	#87
Slash BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 50 Thanked: 45 Times	Can someone pls. tell me how much difference a K&N conical filter would make in a Baleno?
	() Thanks

24th November 2005, 10:40	#89
filcord BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: goa Posts: 996 Thanked: 67 Times	I contacted the local K&N dealer in Goa, for a stock size filter for my Baleno. To my surprise, he did not talk about the oil used for cleaning the filter, and told me it was to be cleaned by dusting it with a compressor. When I insisted, he disclosed that nobody uses the oil and anyway nobody knows much about these filters... the approach was so casual, I am appalled!
	() Thanks