K&N filters

GSHA · 27th December 2007, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueguru

By the way, what exactly do you mean by resonance? At 2500 rpm, the car makes a very low bass growl, on further revving it translates into music

...Is that what you mean by resonance? Actually i am rather confused with your "resonance" thingy!!!

Yes. The low bass note is maximum at the resonance point. If you slowly increase the engine rpm, the rpm at which the bass note is strongest indicates the resonance point. Also, you could put your hand on the blue intake pipe and "feel" that the vibrations are maximum at the resonant rpm.

At the resonant rpm, the intake pipe is working to deliver maximum amount of air to the engine with minimum energy loss. This is the rpm at which the engine gets best intake efficiency and is operating at its best fuel efficiency. [And the music beyond that point is just normal, linked to MHP... Sorry to say that]

By measuring the length of the intake pipe (the blue pipe) from the throttle body to the filter location, it is possible, in theory, to calculate the resonance point approximately. Since I know the Cedia dimensions and also by looking at your pictures, I guessed the resonance in your installation could be around 2500 rpm.

I used to have the universal cone K&N filter installed in my ex-car, Baleno. For its intake length (shorter than the one you have), it resonated at around 3000rpm. Which means, I could hear the bass note with maximum "boom" at around 3000rpm. I once tried running the car on top gear, maintaining around 90kmph, which runs the engine at 2800~3000rpm. I did this run from Bangalore to Chennai. On that day, I used the AC only 30% of the distance. With these conditions, I managed 21.5kmpl. That is how I learnt that resonance really helps in fuel efficiency too. [Earlier to that, I never got more than 17kmpl on the highways on my Baleno].

GSHA · 27th December 2007, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay1234

the apollo is not a shroud. it is a full cold air intake.

The APOLLO kit has the usual conical filter of your choice, and then it has a full cover to enclose the conical filter. This is the called the shroud (in my neck of woods). Of course, depending on the region it may have other names. Its purpose is to completely encompass the conical filter, so that only the air from the long pipe upstream is sucked in.

Akshay1234 · 27th December 2007, 12:11

i know that. what i was saying was that you cant buy the shroud separately. you have to buy the full apollo kit.

GSHA · 27th December 2007, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueguru

M waiting for your pics GSHA...

Please see the pictures on the K&N website.

K&N Apollo Universal Cold Air Intake Systems

I will try and get some pictures of installations on cars. May give a better idea.

Akshay1234 · 27th December 2007, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSHA

Please see the pictures on the K&N website.

K&N Apollo Universal Cold Air Intake Systems

I will try and get some pictures of installations on cars. May give a better idea.

a couple of people on tbhp have it on their cars. i have a similar thing on my innova. go to my garage for pics.

GSHA · 27th December 2007, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay1234

i know that. what i was saying was that you cant buy the shroud separately. you have to buy the full apollo kit.

Hmmm... I am not sure about that part. The guy at Oozone Enterprises, Bangalore, indicated to me that, as long as the filter already installed matches in dimension with the shroud that he has in-store, he was willing to sell the shroud and intake separately. Example: For Esteem / Swift, the conical filter size used is smaller than what is used for Cedia (due to engine capacity).

BTW, Have you noticed that the Cedia intake setup is something very similar? The air box has a pipe connected to the front grill, above the radiators - which sort of helps avoid hot air coming from the radiator and AC condensor. I guess, the K&N conical filter increases the overall air available for the engine. What do you think?.

Akshay1234 · 27th December 2007, 12:24

the cedia does have a good stock setup but with something like an apollo itll have a cold air intake and a high performance air filter. the air filter would allow much more air in than a stock filter.

Torqueguru · 27th December 2007, 12:31

Well guys, do you know for sure if i can elongate the current short RAM intake pipe adding another flexible one as GSHA pointed out? I am a tad confused as to where i can map the filter to, i cant seem to find any space except near the foglight, behind the bumper...but i am not fancying that after waterlogged nightmares!

Torqueguru · 27th December 2007, 12:33

Is that the shroud you mentioned GSHA?

Akshay1234 · 27th December 2007, 13:09

i think u can try putting it in there.

By akshay1234

Torqueguru · 27th December 2007, 13:27

Alright i am gonna check it out asap..thankx guys

vittalnrv · 27th December 2007, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueguru

Alright i am gonna check it out asap..thankx guys

Please dont try to modify your Typhoon CAI , that is the best intake in the world you have there for your car.Also, what boost you are getting now out of that intake is the maximum you can achieve in your cedia.The temperature sensors on your intake pipe lets your car know what kinda air its sucking in and adjusts your fuel mixture to the safe levels. These pipes have been calculated and well researched before putting into mass production.

It will be better for you to chip-tune your car and leave the plumbing alone.There are chips available which fools the ECU by sending lower temp. readings and thus more fuel mixture.This way you get constant boost from your intake no matter what the outside temp. is.

vittalnrv · 27th December 2007, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay1234

i think u can try putting it in there.

By akshay1234

Is there a Air-conditioner in that area or what? Every part of the engine bay is gonna remain hot. Cold air enters the engine bay only when it is available in the atmosphere.

Torqueguru · 27th December 2007, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by vittalnrv

Please dont try to modify your Typhoon CAI , that is the best intake in the world you have there for your car.Also, what boost you are getting now out of that intake is the maximum you can achieve in your cedia.The temperature sensors on your intake pipe lets your car know what kinda air its sucking in and adjusts your fuel mixture to the safe levels. These pipes have been calculated and well researched before putting into mass production.

It will be better for you to chip-tune your car and leave the plumbing alone.There are chips available which fools the ECU by sending lower temp. readings and thus more fuel mixture.This way you get constant boost from your intake no matter what the outside temp. is.

But wont that actually bring down the FE?

Torqueguru · 27th December 2007, 15:02

Hey... i have put a typhoon SRI..not CAI, so will ur opinion differ now? K&N has CAI for Apollo series right?

27th December 2007, 12:11	#228
Akshay1234 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,327 Thanked: 12,915 Times	i know that. what i was saying was that you cant buy the shroud separately. you have to buy the full apollo kit.
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27th December 2007, 12:24	#232
Akshay1234 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,327 Thanked: 12,915 Times	the cedia does have a good stock setup but with something like an apollo itll have a cold air intake and a high performance air filter. the air filter would allow much more air in than a stock filter.
	() Thanks

27th December 2007, 12:31	#233
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Well guys, do you know for sure if i can elongate the current short RAM intake pipe adding another flexible one as GSHA pointed out? I am a tad confused as to where i can map the filter to, i cant seem to find any space except near the foglight, behind the bumper...but i am not fancying that after waterlogged nightmares! Last edited by Torqueguru : 27th December 2007 at 12:34.
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27th December 2007, 12:33	#234
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Is that the shroud you mentioned GSHA?
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27th December 2007, 13:09	#235
Akshay1234 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,327 Thanked: 12,915 Times	i think u can try putting it in there. By akshay1234
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27th December 2007, 13:27	#236
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Alright i am gonna check it out asap..thankx guys
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27th December 2007, 15:02	#240
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Hey... i have put a typhoon SRI..not CAI, so will ur opinion differ now? K&N has CAI for Apollo series right? Last edited by Torqueguru : 27th December 2007 at 15:04.
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