[anilp]

Great thread. Thanks.

Originally Posted by TorqMaster

Our Story - Manza AuraABS.
- He was 7.5L rupees thereabouts in 2010 when we brought him home. No car presently available which "we" feel can be termed as an upgrade from the Manza within 10L rupees as of today.

Thank you. We are in the same boat. Same car/variant, same year. No new equivalent or upgrade that appeals to us at the less than 12 lakh pricepoint.

Regular routine maintenance has ensured that our beauty continues to serve us without any hassle. Our car has been recently moved to a good FNG since TASC Worli has not been doing justice for the past two services. The clutch and suspension replacements are the only major niggles (if you can call them as such) that we have faced so far. Yes, the service costs have gone up since many preventive maintenance replacements are happening, but no biggie when compared to the capital outlay for a replacement.

I see no sense in letting her go for the next three years at least.

[carwatcher]

This thread is kind of Antithesis to one thread I am planning to create since long time.

I have seen hundreds of posts where cars belonging to anywhere between entry level to luxury segments have been declared a total loss even if they were involved in a small accident with a two wheeler.

I know it involves insurance, etc. but I strongly feel that cars have become 'use and throw/sell' just like mobile phones and many people just look for an excuse to replace their cars.

It has also been discussed that nowadays denting work doesn't give a similar feel of original and so is repainting work, yet another excuse to change the car.

One more thing I have observed is even if a person wants to repair and reuse his car, his friends, colleagues, neighbors and other well-wishers on T-Bhp constantly remind him to go for a replacement or 'repair and sell' so that he can have that peace of mind.

I can't see that scenario changing but rather increasing day by day.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ampere

D-Bhpian, @condor has a very nice way of putting it. People suffer from what is called "ownership fatigue"! So true.

Earlier in his life the novelist Elmore Leonard was an inhouse copywriter for Chevrolet, and got tasked to write an ad for their truck. He went out and talked to a few truckers, and based on their comments, came up with a brilliant and simple piece of copy that was, sadly but expectedly, rejected by the company.

"You can't wear the (profane expression related to the offspring of a female dog deleted due to tbhp rules) out, you just get sick of looking at it and get a new one".

That is as succint a description of ownership fatigue as I can ever get - and tells you more or less the truth. The car is good for a long long time more.

The older cars seem to be better in that respect, I am not at all sure newer ones are even built to last. For example innovas from a decade back versus the new ones with more chrome but a lighter body from 2015-16.

[hellmet]

Here's a related blog post that I wrote:

Well if you’ve been riding your motorcycle or scooter for as long as I have then I’m sure you must have noticed the increase in the number of components that start cribbing and crying to be replaced. And they seem to be failing one after another with no respite. You may have poured a few Ks into the vehicle and may be looking at more bills in the future. This is a situation where most of us would despair and start looking for solutions, after all, you want the damn thing to work for you, and not the other way around. You might even say to yourself “The hell with it, I’m going out and buying new”. I’d like to stop you right there because that would be crazy.

Even the most reliable vehicles need routine maintenance, and over a period of 5-8 years – let’s call it the fatigue point – a lot of parts would have significant wear and tear due to usage, road conditions, metal fatigue, weather (salt in the air?), your riding style and more, some parts will fail and some will not perform to their maximum ability anymore (bald tires). Before you think it is a conspiracy by motor vehicle manufacturers so you keep buying new, think again, because you don’t have to buy new.

Let’s say you’re at the fatigue point with your ride right now and you’re looking at a 60K purchase on a new 2 wheeler. But instead of buying new, I suggest you put this cash into a savings account and withdraw from it Rs1000 every month to maintain your current vehicle. A thousand rupees is a lot to maintain a decent 100-150CC vehicle and with thousand rupees you can avail yourself of an oil change every month and have a thorough checkup done for any other failing or near failure parts. Every month. That is a lot of attention to your vehicle and you come out of the service workshop with a perfectly riding vehicle each time.

I’m not suggesting you really change your oil every month because that is both unnecessary and wasteful but it is just to give you an idea. Let’s say you replace your oil one month, a tire another month, a brake shoe another month or just a light bulb another month. Some months you may spend more than Rs1000 and some months maybe just a Rs100, but at an average of Rs.1000 per month over the course of 5 years you would have exhausted your 60K stash from which you withdrew each month. Now what? you say. Remember, the 60K you stashed away was put in a savings account? So your money made you more money (earning interest) while sitting in the bank instead of depreciating like a stock market crash like it does when you buy a new vehicle. You come out after 5 years with earned interest.

If you’d had purchased a new vehicle 5 years ago that vehicle would be reaching its fatigue point right now and you’d be looking at another 70K (inflation!) in expenses again. Instead, you were wise and maintained your old vehicle religiously so now you ride a 2 wheeler that runs fantastically well. Almost like new. Yes, your vehicle might look old with all the scratches and dings it accumulated over the years but think about all the money and time saved on buying, applying and buffing waxes to make paint look new and shiny. If the body has serious dents, pay someone to get them out and repaint, after all you have a 60K stash waiting for you.

And, this is all assuming you were going to buy new with cash. With a loan added to the picture the figures are even more dramatic and it starts making lesser and lesser sense to replace your vehicle.

I’m sure the same logic could apply to cars as well, you probably only have to add a zero to all the figures above though.

Be wise, be frugal.

[ajmat]

Well, I could have soldered on with my vRS but the unpredicatbility was killing me. To be fair, it ran well before I sold it but I was not prepared to spend more on new discs, clutch etc as well as the clearly unknown

Having stumped up for a new car, I made the right decision with the Jetta, it costs peanuts to run and I have too much time on my hands. However. I know in 3-4 years time, I got a big clutch bill, new timing belt, EGR, discs coming up.

It all depends on the certainty factor and what else is on the market

[vinit]

I think, maintaining your old car for years may make financial sense but as we see around, the lifestyles of the people are changing very rapidly. Cars are no longer treated as a valued possession (unless its a Ferrari or so: ) ) and they are simply considered as some transport utility. Many of my friends change their cars as soon as the warranty gets over even if their cars are in perfect condition. Many of my colleagues change their cars at every promotion. People's aspirations are increasing rapidly and more and more people have started linking these commodities with their societal status. Slowly but surely cars are also going the mobile way.

[tanuj_afc]

I had a 118NE which was like the king of our garage. Everyone in my family loved it even though it had numerous breakdowns and faults. We kept repairing it until its parts became tough to find and expensive to maintain. It's tough to sell a car which you love so much. I don't know how some people do it.

Sad to see that people sell their car these days just because they find it tough to maintain.

[mohaks19]

Selling my 2006 vRS this year was the toughest decision I've ever faced. I thoroughly love my car for obvious reasons and from what I believe, there's no car today under 25 Lakhs that can match the sheer thrill of the vRS, not even the current generation Octavia 1.8 TSI with it's DSG gearbox. But with the onset of 2014, repair bills and frequent breakdowns became a huge pain. Moreover, due to its extremely low fuel efficiency and unreliable nature, it couldn't be used on the highways as well. And so, there was no other option but to sell it off, much to the horror of my whole family who's used to the vRS's extreme acceleration and sweet engine note.

Another car that I own, a 2011 Toyota Etios G (Petrol) is undeniably the most reliable car my family has ever owned. A Toyota badge with simple mechanicals is just something everyone loves. But with my recent increase in highway trips to Delhi, the absence of ABS and Airbags makes me sceptical. It has just clocked 40K on the odo is still good as new with prompt maintenance, but the need for a new car is inevitable. The Etios was bought for intercity use only, but trust me, the absence of safety features along with low insulation and an extremely light weight spoils things up on highway trips. Thus, the need for a new German sedan.

[mh09ad5578]

I'm thinking now. I was actually planning to retain my duster brought in the current year for eight years. But I've already done 33k kms in less than 8 months. I think I'll cross 50k kms this year! So I'm looking at 4 lakh kms +at the end of the tenure, lots of repair bills and a totally depreciated car at the end of the tenure ? I think it would be better to change after the 5 year time gap in my case.

[reignofchaos]

Great thread!

I am in the middle of a car purchase transaction. My Mitsubishi Cedia last me roughly 9 years of fuss free ownership now and now slowly repairs bills will slowly start coming in.

This month all brakes and discs required replacement. The ASC guys want 75k to replace discs and pads. Ended up buying aftermarket and got it done in under 20k.

However I realized that its okay for brakes but what if the car next requires a timing belt or a drive-shaft or front suspension.

There is no guarantee that every after market part will be reliable or genuine. The car is not worth much now in terms of resale. So its best to get rid of it while there is still some value left and move on. Soon it will be worth junk value.

[Geo_Ipe]

Very thought provoking thread! GTO has explained in detail why I've been holding onto my Santro Xing for so long.

She turns 10 this month, and has run 79k km. I've always serviced her at the Hyundai A$S, though not at the recommended 6 monthly interval, but like every 9-10 months. I never reach the recommended ~10k km service interval in the stipulated time period.

Service costs have remained like INR 5-6k per year.
Battery changed once at the 7 year mark.
Tyres changed at 50k km mark.
No major clutch/suspension issues yet.
Timing belt going strong according to my SA, will need a re-look at maybe 90k km mark.
There has been an issue of irregular idling rpm of late, and the SA has 'ISA valve' change, for which he quoted INR ~11k. Nothing urgent, though better to be replaced according to him. Any thoughts, fellow BHPians?

My thoughts on changing my ride:
-If my daily running increases considerably - unlikely in the coming 4 years
-Will need safety features if the need for highway runs increase. Currently I do Chennai trips (~300 km to and fro) 3-4 times a year.
-If maintenance and repair bills shoot through the roof - again unlikely for a Santro.

Till then I hold onto my beloved little Black Beauty!

[atulsian]

Very true GTO. My dad is insisting me to keep our 2005 wagnor. It has crunched 65k till now with maintanince cost 12k per annum from last two years and today I got a bill of 13k again for a LHS drive shaft plus regular service. Varun motors quoted 1.3lakhs for which my dad is very reluctant to sell.

[V.Narayan]

This thread sure made me think of the 'why' of selling a car - something I had never given collective thought to. So here goes:

Standard Herald: 1965 to 1985. 130,000 kms +. This was really my father's car though I romped around in it quite a bit. After all it even featured in James Bond's Dr. No with Ursula Andress (guys that's Andress with an A and not a U!). Sold as it was at the end of its useful life and had been out of production for several years by then. Maintenance effort in the last 5 years was immense though cost was not. As it was a simple car by today's comparison a lot of maintenance was DIY.

Maruti 800: 1985 to 2002. Just over 100,000 kms. This was also owned by my father. He adored driving himself even in his later years and though the car was in great running condition I convinced him to let me present him with an air conditioned car and sell the 800. This was one of the early units with a lot of Jap components especially the engine, transmission and other motive parts and ran smooth as silk till her last day.

Premier Padmini: 1990 to 2000: First car owned by me. It required effort to keep her going for 10 years thanks primarily to the poor build quality of Premier Automobiles. The physical effort & time taken to maintain it was a bother especially so after it turned seven. It went to an employee's cousin who promptly converted it to a band baja rath to adorn in rural Gurgaon! Reconciling with this fate pinched a bit. Today I wish I had kept her but alas such is life.

Cielo: 1997 to 2000: Sold it because the clutch gave way at 50,000 kms. It was my first 'luxury' car. I was awfully proud of it and this sudden major failure shocked me. First got it repaired and then in a moment of pique sold it to be replaced with an Opel Astra. The fact of Daewoo's demise encouraged the decision to sell.

Opel Astra Club: 2000 to 2006: 70k kms and change. Sold it while still in fine fettle because I fell for the Skoda Laura with its torque, much better interiors, leg space & looks. The Astra was well maintained and could have rolled on for another 3 years but the heart pulled. as for maintenance the Astra demanded attention.

Opel Corsa: 2000 to 2010. Loved this car. It was my daily commuter for a decade. Gave little trouble beyond regular maintenance cycles. Ran smoothly. Gave her up because production had stopped a couple of years earlier. Enjoyed keeping her in top prim.

Maruti Zen: 2002 to 2015 (and indirectly still in the family): Pocket rocket in every way. Along with the Honda Jazz the most trouble free car we've had. Sold it to one of my drivers. He now commutes in it to work especially in North India's winters. Never (touchwood) had any major glitch and still zips around. I wonder why a 14 year old Zen gives trouble free service while the German luxury cars suffer breakdowns. Sometimes I think that one day I'll buy her back from my driver once she is getting the first whiff of being old enough to be a nostalgic car.

Skoda Laura: 2006 to 2014: Did over 130,000 kms ultimately. She could have gone on longer but I wanted the XC60 and the Laura was the candidate to go. In the 2014 monsoons she got jammed in a flooded part of NCR and water entered the engine. We got her running again but that incident along with her 8 years sealed the decision.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by fordfreak

For the suspension work, I got the car checked up at the authorized Toyota dealer (who quoted around Rs.40,000 to set the suspension right). ... I haven't taken a quote from my trusted local workshop yet (I get all my body work done here and trust these chaps).

If I sell, it will be replaced with a City or another Corolla.

Keep the car. Even if you spend 60-70k on tyres and suspension overhaul, it's worth every penny. The resale value is very bad.

A new city will set you back by around 11-13 lakh OTR depending on the variant.

A new corolla will set you back by 17-20 lakh OTR depending on the variant.

A Corolla that has run 1 lakh km has atleast another 1-1.5 lakh km of life left in it.

[Tanveer_2558]

Great thread

Its actually true that people sell their car when they get a couple of repairs or even they sense if repairs are coming up, Selling cars i think after 3 -4 years gets a very low resale value and it very much makes more sense to keep the car in top shape, Repair it and use it, Rather than selling it off cheaply.