|
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
Search this Thread | 110,893 views |
5th May 2016, 19:15 | #31 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Pune
Posts: 417
Thanked: 2,541 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
Disclaimer: I do not personally know any of the parties involved. Few question which popped out after reading your explanations, no offence intended, only intention is to understand the scenerio in a better way: 1. If you knew that the parts which OP had brought were not worth it and it was impossible to build a reliable car with those, why did not you put down your foot? (OP has clearly mentioned that he was looking forward to a reliable machine after the rebuild)? 2. Failing parts is one thing and sub-standard job work is another. If we go by the pictures, things do not look good. 3. As mentioned by you, OP threatened to tow away the car, you should have let him, not sure why you continued with the build if you knew it is going to fail? 4. No matter how so ever was the product coming up, some one who has left his property with you deserves a call back at the least. Last edited by Engine_Roars : 5th May 2016 at 19:18. Reason: Edit: Please ignore those question which you have already clarified in the above reply. We both posted at the same time. | |
(18) Thanks |
The following 18 BHPians Thank Engine_Roars for this useful post: | amarpreet99, IshaanIan, john doe, JoseVijay, mayankk, Meccanico, needforspeed88, phamilyman, RavenAvi, Samir Taheer, SnS_12, suhaas307, swiftnfurious, The Rationalist, theexperthand, Turbanator, vivtho, yash2424 |
|
5th May 2016, 19:20 | #32 | ||||||||||||||
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mangalore
Posts: 597
Thanked: 645 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore For most of us, ncie powerful cars are out of our reach. Or if its powerful, its got some feature that we cannot live with. For example, if love a nice german with 250+ horses but I cant afford it and even if I could, id shy away from it since its not a stick shift. These are little things in us that we cannot explain. There is a certain kick you get from modding a car. Again, its hard to explain. These cars end up as money pits but they can put a silly smile on your face. I did not want to let go of my baleno. It is my first car and only car. I loved the seating and the handling(with Koni’s). I just wanted a more powerful engine. So I modded it. I got a kick allright. lol Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thank you for pitching in, Mr. Dhabhar. I’m a big fan of you and your LHD Fiat from KL. Quote:
A tuner with sound knowledge, skill and a willingness to work ethically is way better than a local mechanic. The knowledge a local mechanic has would be limited to the bikes he has worked on and that too basic stuff. Im not going to generalize as ive seen some wizard mechs in my own town. I wish you all the best with your bike build. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have already written clearly about the Chinese stuff in the build. You can go ahead and tell your side of the story. As mentioned before, I have cut my losses and moved on. I Don’t want anything from you nor do I wish bad for you. Im just telling the world about my experience with RC. Im over everything apart from the fact that your nylon braided hose almost costed me my engine. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Any petrol car with higher compression, a freer flowing exhaust and a filter would be very responsive. Add to that a good cam and a piggyback and you would have a stonker of a car. How weak was the old head gasket? Just asking as you said the heating reduced after the headwork. Quote:
Cheers! | ||||||||||||||
(10) Thanks |
The following 10 BHPians Thank james for this useful post: | JoseVijay, kutlee, RavenAvi, samaspire, SunnyBoi, swiftnfurious, The Rationalist, TrailBlazer007, Turbanator, vivtho |
5th May 2016, 20:33 | #33 |
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 96
Thanked: 275 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore First off let me introduce myself, I'm Anoop and I've gotten my Civic turbocharged by Joel from RaceConcepts one & a half years ago roughly. Also I have compiled a separate thread regarding the build. I marshal at a rallies occasionally, I've networked with a handful of tuners, FMSCI officials and other big wigs in the sports scene. I'm just taken aback with all the posts I saw on this particular thread. James has had his story to tell with pictures backing his "claims" and I see people jumping at the opportunity to call someone a fraud and the likes. Come on, I though it was common sense not to jump to conclusions without understanding the whole picture. Atleast have the patience and willingness to get exposed to the whole story before you publicly start calling out names. We are all adults here aren't we? Reliability What exactly does one expect from a custom turbo build man? Do you expect your car to have "Japanese reliability" from a build where you cost cut (using toned down words to be civil) with Chinese parts, small budget and clear cut guidelines for the tuner? If yes, boy you're in the wrong hobby. Since all of us here are freely typing without holding back let me be one of the crowd. If you want to turbo your car- *Don't cheap out on car parts and expect it to be "reliable" *Don't experiment on your own and tune your cars yourself (Yea people do that) *Don't have a fixed timeline: There are number of factors why your build will get late. Out of experience let me lay it down for you. 1. He's not working on your car only. There are many other clients such as yourself who are all in a damn hurry. 2. There are fixed race schedules that are frankly more important than street builds. That's where you hone your skills as a tuner and apply it to your street builds. 3. Ordering parts from abroad and getting it cleared with customs is no joke. Small little things like a smartwatch I've had numerous delays and frustrating calls. So automobile parts are no joke. 4. The tuner has his own personal life to attend to. I've seen this guy work his behind off until 10 in the night when he has way more important things to attend to at home. He didn't budge because there was my car and 2 other cars to be tuned for a drag event the next day. He comes at 11 everyday and stays until late night. Cut him some slack man, I've seen tuners designate the work to their employees and head out for a drink. Easy to point a few instances and post it for people to get judgemental about one's work ethics. If you really want utmost care and attention to your car please take your car to a guy who's had good knowledge about the tuning scene but is relatively new at building turbo cars.. You'll have another set of issues there as well.. Which is totally normal.. I'm not saying you got to forget the car for a year or whatever.. Just be prepared for delays.. Merclover's car is in the workshop, it's taken months as well but the amount of upgrades it's getting is phenomenal.. It takes time, if you don't have the patience please don't turbo your car. Get a FFE or some basic stuff and expect it to be done in a few days. *Prepare yourself for some small disappointments and visits to the workshops Companies pour millions into R&D and still do recalls. How can you expect a custom builds to be reliable? Show me a tuner who's built a turbo's car thats run without any hiccups at all.. So please be prepared for all this before you decide to spend your hard earned money to turbo your car. And if you do decide to turbo your car, then don't spoil it for others by nitpicking on such basic stuff and call out names.. It's a part of the build, accept it.. I've had my fair share of all of the above and I'm just laying it out frankly so others know.. Coming to my car, the reason I don't keep updating my thread is I haven't had any phenomenal upgrades to the car.. YES I've had issues with the car, I knew what I was getting into.. But the issues were never major.. Let me type out the things I remember.. - Engine mount malfunctioned: Joel replaced it, many 2007 Civic owners have experienced the same. - Exhaust manifold seal or whatever you call it was loose and exhaust gas was leaking hence there was loss in power: Sorted in 30 minutes at his garage. - AFR was going crazy: I was a cheapass and chose a piggyback because the standalone was double the price. - BOV stopped functioning: Joel swapped it for me.. For free, I was there when he swapped so I can safely say he didn't con me - The piggyback failed, dumped fuel in the cylinder, car stalled. Towed it to his workshop, he made sure I only paid the difference amount to the standalone ECU.. Didn't pay extra for tuning, didn't loose a buck.. Had I not cheaped out in the first place I would't have even lost the towing charges. - Yes Joel doesn't attend calls sometimes: He busy working on cars, get the manager's number instead.. He'll make it a point to get in touch with you as soon as he can.. I've gotten frustrated as well but when I spent time at his workshop I'd do the same.. Everyone wants their cars done quickly and also wants him to attend calls at the same time.. It's not practically possible to be frank. - Performance brake pads faded, had to wait a month for new ones: Thank you customs officials. If I'd just stop my post here, it's easy to steer people off the turbocharging scene.. Do bear with me further.. What have I gotten out of the tubobuild? * I've been the happiest ever when I'm on the streets.. Like I've mentioned in my thread the shameless grin that get slapped on your face is insane. * I get too used to the power and get bored (which I do with everything) I just drop by and he loads a new map and it's a whole new experience. * I participated in the Jakkur drag recently and boy it was the best thing I've done in a long time.. Joel got his whole crew over, we had mech support, you want your seats removed-done, want drag slicks-done. And how much did I pay him for all this? Nothing.. * I daily my car as well, I can drive it like a stock car at crawling city speeds at low rpms in higher gears.. Downshift and throttle, it then it's a different beast.. * There is NOTHING that I regret about my association with RaceConcepts.. Like I mentioned before I've met quite a few people in the industry and I stand by this guy.. To summarize it all, it's easy to mention a few bad things about a build that was limited to certain factors.. There's only so much one can do when you're hands are tied up.. Also, if you want an implant done and expect it to feel like the natural thing then sir your expectations are too high.. For the rest of you enthusiasts out there please take your time out behind computer screens and attend events and network with different tuners in the industry to know how it is.. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and here was mine.. I apologize if i was offensive but it is required for some to understand the reality of things.. If you don't want to compromise on the headache please go for a factory tuned performance car.. Frankly that experience is brilliant as well, but only expensive.. |
(15) Thanks |
The following 15 BHPians Thank blahman for this useful post: | ads295, DrANTO, DWC, JohnyBoy, laferrari, planet_rocker, RavenAvi, Samba, Shubhendra, suhaas307, swiftdiesel, swiftnfurious, Viju, vivtho, vsathyap |
5th May 2016, 20:34 | #34 |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Chennai
Posts: 66
Thanked: 54 Times
| @james Sorry for your loss. I know how it feels to be in that position. Am very happy that you opened a thread and documented it BTW, am no expert, i don't know anything in-depth about turbos and other stuffs. But was an active member in xbhp and i know a friend of mine who fell for this trap. He used to praise a lot about RaceConcepts mod in his R15 and at one stage even i became jealous. But i knew very well, nothing comes closer to stock in germs of reliability which stopped me from doing all these mods. Now as time moves forward, problems start to arise with starter motor burning in a signal surrounded by traffic. He blamed yamaha for that and then suddenly Motul 300v oil turns into Tar like substance and then 2 piston replacement and finally bike was torn apart and sold. This was never documented anywhere. Only the performance he extracted from the mod was documented which would lead many uninformed people to fall for this. We investigated a little bit and even with my very limited knowledge i could tell that the pistons were of very bad quality. The finish were terrible and the cylinders are imported factory rejected cylinders on which SS sleeves were installed which is no match for the Stock Diasil cylinders. Now,this thread being an eye opener here in TeamBhp, i hope people stay away from these kits. And this is where i really wish to be in foreign countries where mods are carried out with extreme care as if its their own car. Being in India,just get the best what the factory offers. When you fell hungry for more power, sell and buy a more powerful one instead of trying these which would end up costlier and spending sleepless nights PS: i have no personal experience nor vengeance on RaceConcepts. Just documented whatever i saw on my friends bike. |
(3) Thanks |
The following 3 BHPians Thank sid93 for this useful post: | asit.kulkarni93, suhaas307, swiftnfurious |
5th May 2016, 20:43 | #35 | ||||||||||||||||
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mangalore
Posts: 597
Thanked: 645 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore
By all means, please do. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Your arrogance and the way you are taking gullible clients for a ride made me make up my mind to tell the world about my experience with race concepts. If I can save even one auto enthuiast from going down the same route I did, ill be happy. The xmas wish was sent you you in error. I have many contacts by the name of joel. Anyway, i hope you had a merry xmas. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No loss, not gain, Sid. I lost money but gained a lotta knowledge and experience. Im sorry to hear what your friend went through. It can be heart breaking to see your hard earned bike go down the drain like that. It just hurts! Cheers!! Last edited by james : 5th May 2016 at 20:59. Reason: Replied to blahman & Sid | ||||||||||||||||
(22) Thanks |
The following 22 BHPians Thank james for this useful post: | 1lokesh, Dr.Naren, iliketurtles, JoseVijay, kutlee, laferrari, mi2n, mvadg, needforspeed88, Rahulkool, RavenAvi, schakravarthy, SnS_12, suhaas307, SunnyBoi, swiftdiesel, swiftnfurious, The Rationalist, theexperthand, TrailBlazer007, Turbanator, vivtho |
5th May 2016, 20:53 | #36 | ||||||||||||
BANNED Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 12,350
Thanked: 21,411 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore I have been silently following the thread and replies from Mr Fieroid made me reply here or else I would have been a silent reader as usual. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________ ____ POINT 3: Quote:
Quote:
POINT 4: Quote:
__________________________________________________ __________ Quote:
__________________________________________________ _____________ Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________ ___________ Quote:
PS: No offence Mr Fieroid. I am not finding it in correlation to your responses here with what Mr James has posted. I am not sure if James has twisted facts and presented them here to gain sympathy and momentum. If he had, it would have been opposed by you with facts in reality. But I find no hard facts that support you data. I am not blaming the tuner world or anyone here. It is just that I feel something is a-miss!! | ||||||||||||
(42) Thanks |
The following 42 BHPians Thank a4anurag for this useful post: | 1lokesh, aargee, Added_flavor, ads295, Ani0404, Arvi95, createrkid, Dr.Naren, Govardhansupra, iliketurtles, IshaanIan, james, JayD, JohnyBoy, JoseVijay, kutlee, Lalvaz, MavericK46, mbhaskar, MidnightBlack, mvadg, needforspeed88, Nissan1180, racer_m, Rahulkool, Rajeevraj, RavenAvi, ravimathi, rjstyles69, samaspire, SandyX, SnS_12, suhaas307, SunnyBoi, The Rationalist, theexperthand, TrailBlazer007, Turbanator, vb-saan, Viju, vivtho, YoungSaint |
5th May 2016, 21:03 | #37 | |
BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: who cares
Posts: 787
Thanked: 142 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
3L is a "small" budget? Does the tuner accept pesos? Last edited by yzfrj : 5th May 2016 at 21:14. | |
(34) Thanks |
The following 34 BHPians Thank yzfrj for this useful post: | 1lokesh, ads295, asit.kulkarni93, bhaskaracs, dhanushs, DrANTO, driverace, fine69, Govardhansupra, iliketurtles, IshaanIan, james, JayD, JoseVijay, kingofkings, kutlee, Mahesh Prasad, Meccanico, MidnightBlack, mvadg, Nissan1180, racer_m, RavenAvi, rjstyles69, SAK-XXVII, SandyX, SnS_12, SRISRI_90, suhaas307, SunnyBoi, The Rationalist, theexperthand, TrailBlazer007, Viju |
5th May 2016, 21:10 | #38 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: TSTN
Posts: 6,236
Thanked: 9,643 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
The other one, eventually bought powerful motorcycle, but didn't have guts to accept his mistake & guess what...he didn't learn either Anyway, I'm very positive that same old issues & experiences are resurfacing but for car instead of motorcycles this time. Leave all those behind, I'm sure you're not only going to excel in this area, but also shine in others as well because once bitten twice shy! | |
(3) Thanks |
The following 3 BHPians Thank aargee for this useful post: | asit.kulkarni93, james, Nissan1180 |
5th May 2016, 21:25 | #40 | |
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 5,902
Thanked: 24,086 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Not commenting on the technical aspects of the build again as I have no specific expertise there, but some of the pictures are testament to a lack of 'professional' approach to work even with bare basics. What 'professional' would get something as basic as a connecting hose's length wrong? Even my much-maligned Hyundai A.S.S. took care of cutting a replacement radiator hose to size before install because the one in stock was a few centimeters too long. The lack of proper documentation at a supposed 'professional' setup is surprising, to put it mildly. Without the need or intent to accuse anyone of anything, the claims reg. parts & work done don't match the invoice provided to the customer. What are we missing? P.S. No offence to a couple of other posters, but I find the whole bunch of arguments "Don't expect reliability from non-OEM builds", "A 3 lakh budget is cheap-skating", "The tuner is too busy to bother talking to you", "Yours isn't the only job he has" and "There are other more important things on his mind" too absurd to argue with. If a paying customer isn't important enough, just tell him so BEFORE you take him on, not AFTER. Fair enough? Quote:
Your build went well, you're entitled to be satisfied. The OP's didn't after spending a not-so-cheap six-figure sum, so he's entitled to complain as long as he can back up his claims with evidence. He seems to have done that so far, and Joel is free to present his side too so the 'ill-informed' here may form a more informed opinion. P.S. I'd love to meet the wrench-wielding monkeys that can install bolt-on kits. People must be crazy to pay through their noses for stuff like that when we can have one of our evolutionary ancestors do it for free on a weekend! P.P.S. Doesn't our very own professional tuner in discussion here sell bolt-on kits for bikes? You may want to reconsider the wrench-wielding monkeys bit. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 5th May 2016 at 21:51. | |
(22) Thanks |
The following 22 BHPians Thank Chetan_Rao for this useful post: | 2StrokeJunkie, amarpreet99, audioholic, drhoneycake, iliketurtles, james, JoseVijay, Mahesh Prasad, motorpsycho, Rahulkool, RavenAvi, rsm97, SAK-XXVII, samaspire, Speed.Demon, suhaas307, The Rationalist, theexperthand, timuseravan, TrailBlazer007, vivtho, xander |
5th May 2016, 21:38 | #41 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 96
Thanked: 275 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
Alright you've had a bad experience because of collective efforts put into the car by the previous guy and Joel.. Like I mentioned earlier maybe it was because the constraints didn't allow it to be done the right way.. As an outsider passing through this thread I see a lot of mudslinging not just on one tuner but the whole tuning scene.. I'd get turned off towards modifying my car on the whole. Such an irony for the website, and some are advising you to go legal?! Let's think about it for a second, all the things you and I and many more have gotten done to their cars are illegal in the first place. Can someone imagine the storm one might start and spoil the whole industry just because you followed someone's "advice" on an internet portal? This whole thread got changed from one guy talking about his turbobuild to people letting their frustration out on the whole mod scene. People say tuners in foreign country work on cars as if it's their own?! Have they got their cars done by them or is it just hear say? Or was it a custom job or a readily available bolt-on kit (which any monkey with a wrench can install). Seriously guys, stop assuming things.. It looks embarrsingly bad when your'e a casual observer of this thread. Chetan_Rao Everyone knows that an aftermarket build can't be as reliable as an OEM build. If they don't they are just kidding themselves. I'm not saying a 3 lakh budget is cheap skating, please re-read my post.. The usage of chinese parts are. The tuner isn't busy to bother talking to you, I said one cannot always be free to talk to you.. As long as he gets back to you at the end of the day it's perfectly fine and if one has ever visited any tuners warehouse they can see for themselves that they aren't the only guys with a build lined up.. Everyone has important stuff on their mind, but when one decided to put his work before personal life that must show how much attention one gives to his customer. Easy to misinterpret posts when one isn't flexible enough to see beyond their already fixed mindset about a topic Yea everyone's entitled to their opinion, I never said he musnt vent out his experience man. I only said just because one had a bad experience it doesnt mean eeveryone who got a car built by that guy has as well. And about wrench weilding monkeys, don't take it literally mate. It was a figure of speech. Frankly a custom job needs more skill than a bolt on kit. hence the use of that term, I hope i made myself clear. Last edited by Aditya : 11th May 2016 at 06:52. Reason: Replied to another post | |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks blahman for this useful post: | vivtho |
|
5th May 2016, 21:40 | #42 |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore This is really sad buddy. We see only positive or good stuff about turbo build/remap in forum. Nobody cares to write their bad experience in detail like you. You have shown everything with proof and definitely an eye opener. I too had bad experience with one of the most reputed tuner in bangalore. He did not even know what type of turbo my car has and remapped it which was pathetic. |
(3) Thanks |
The following 3 BHPians Thank Dr.Naren for this useful post: | james, Kool_Kid, samaspire |
5th May 2016, 21:45 | #43 | |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: bangalore
Posts: 706
Thanked: 304 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore How did the IHI one suddenly become BIG for the car and why did it change to GT25 replica? Why wasn't this replica suggested earlier during the discussion? Quote:
I would like to state that the gaskets and oil lines are things that we have taken as feedback long ago. We run braided lines on all builds now. And even improvised on many other design aspects. The manifold welds are shoddy to my own taste since it was done in a hurry replacing a Honda flange. We offered James a replacement header and downpipe too. We are glad the community is growing and we will do our best in improvising and taking feedback positively. Last edited by Gannu_1 : 6th May 2016 at 07:49. Reason: Fixing quote. | |
(4) Thanks |
The following 4 BHPians Thank fieroid for this useful post: | audioholic, Khodays, lurker, vivtho |
5th May 2016, 21:54 | #44 | ||||
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mangalore
Posts: 597
Thanked: 645 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What? Were you living in the stone age all this while? People have been insisting on braided oil lines since decades. Are you waking up to all this now? Last edited by Aditya : 11th May 2016 at 06:52. Reason: Quoted text edited | ||||
(2) Thanks |
The following 2 BHPians Thank james for this useful post: | audioholic, vivtho |
5th May 2016, 21:57 | #45 | |
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 5,902
Thanked: 24,086 Times
| Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore Quote:
I never went beyond asking Joel to clarify a few bits, and honestly, got a much more polite response from him than your generalized, condescending rant asking others not to, wait for it, generalize and be condescending. You may also want to reconsider your usage of 'irony' while you're at it. Mods: Tried updating previous post but ran out of 30-min edit window. Please merge as appropriate. | |
(21) Thanks |
The following 21 BHPians Thank Chetan_Rao for this useful post: | audioholic, createrkid, DrANTO, drhoneycake, driverace, fine69, iliketurtles, IshaanIan, james, JoseVijay, Mik, racer_m, RavenAvi, sai_ace, SandyX, Sisu, SnS_12, SRISRI_90, suhaas307, theexperthand, Viju |