[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Not sure if this can be done. Power steering has many functions inside it such as locking mechanism. And most importantly, the system/ECU will just show error on the console and won't even let the car start.

If possible
a) remove mechanical coupling between motor and steering column/ shaft
b) remove power to assist motor

First isolate source of problem.

Regards
Sutripta

[Altocumulus]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Okay, mine is definitely not super light at low speeds.

I maybe feel it to be super light because my other car is a Civic which has a hydraulic steering. Ignis is definitely not 'Hyundai' light.

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Tried 36 also, didn't help. Tires haven't been rotated but alignment has been done multiple times. I agree, it's a very light car but doesn't that also mean that such high psi is not required especially when Ignis's suspensions are also stiff?

Don't think of it as the weight on the suspension but on the tyre. The rear of the car doesnot have any weight but the front has a engine, gearbox, driveshaft, etc on it, similar to 5-6 people sitting on it if not more. It needs to have a higher psi to balance that weight. Similarly if you see the tyres are pretty high profile which helps with the ground clearance. To keep the tyres inflated for optimum contact patch you would need a higher psi.
The suspension is stiff to minimize body roll since it is a tall car and center of gravity is higher.

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

I'm not challenging the engineering behind it but we all know that many of us don't follow exact ratings. Rather lot of us adjust the tire pressure depending on tire manufacturer, sidewall stiffness, road conditions etc, ofcourse respecting the psi recommendations too. But such differences barely creates an issue for anyone.

Completely agree. I am not denying what you are saying. However in your case since the damper is at recommended tightness and you have a new rack, it's just to make sure all other easier parameters are checked out. Lower psi may better the ride but you are also increasing the contact patch so steering will be harder. 1-2 psi less is fine, but 4psi is more than 10% less air than recommended.

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Do you maintain 36 always? How has your experience been with the ride quality and especially braking?

I maintain 35/31 and I am on upsized Yokos from day one.

The ride is stiff no doubt, but at higher speeds it is fantastic. Great balance. The road between Allahabad and Varanasi is horrible along with numerous diversions. I stopped counting after 35 diversions. The car just didnt care and went along absorbing everything with ease.

Braking is spot on, atleast for me. Fabulous bite but ABS did not kick in even in a panic brake situation(maybe because of the tyre also), I loved it. Add to that a superb ptw ratio helped pick up speeds quickly.

When I left Delhi, it was 980 kms only on the Odo and I was skeptical if it was the right decision to take this instead of the Civic, which has driven with me from Kolkata to Bangalore and then Bangalore to Delhi within a weeks time without a single issue apart from numerous other numerous roadtrips. But the decision of taking the Ignis couldnt have been better. I am back a Fan Boy A friend of mine and bhpian accompanied me in the return drive, and he is impressed as well. He was looking for a new car, and has already decided on the Ignis. To top it all I got an average of 19+ tankful to tankful for the entire trip and I am not a slow driver. I am a happy man.

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

If possible
a) remove mechanical coupling between motor and steering column/ shaft
b) remove power to assist motor

First isolate source of problem.

Regards
Sutripta

There was an attempt to replace steering column and check, but didn't work (the service center guys broke it). I'll bring this to team and see what they have to say.

Originally Posted by Altocumulus

I maybe feel it to be super light because my other car is a Civic which has a hydraulic steering. Ignis is definitely not 'Hyundai' light.

I drive a 2014 Fiesta Diesel and even that's not light at all. Still in comparison, Ignis feels harder.

For further comparison, I drove my bro-in-law's Tiago during the last week and 'that' was proper light. And the Ignis demo cars were light (though not as light as Tiago), not mine.

Completely agree. I am not denying what you are saying. However in your case since the damper is at recommended tightness and you have a new rack, it's just to make sure all other easier parameters are checked out.

Agreed!

Lower psi may better the ride but you are also increasing the contact patch so steering will be harder. 1-2 psi less is fine, but 4psi is more than 10% less air than recommended.

Agreed here also. But as I mentioned before, the 36 psi didn't make much difference to steering feel :-/ But I see where you're going with this.

I maintain 35/31 and I am on upsized Yokos from day one.

The ride is stiff no doubt, but at higher speeds it is fantastic. Great balance. The road between Allahabad and Varanasi is horrible along with numerous diversions. I stopped counting after 35 diversions. The car just didnt care and went along absorbing everything with ease.

Good to know! But I found 36 too harsh. But you're a fast driver I guess

Braking is spot on, atleast for me. Fabulous bite but ABS did not kick in even in a panic brake situation(maybe because of the tyre also), I loved it.

Agree here. The brakes are a bit spongy and lack initial bite (tuned for city), but there's enough juice in it.

Add to that a superb ptw ratio helped pick up speeds quickly.

Agreed. Ignis is definitely peppy. Plus I'm also happy with the AMT with 1.2L Petrol Engine. The gearbox has it's characteristics but it's never shy to drop 2 gears (from 5th to 3rd) if you put your foot down - and surprisingly quick at that.

When I left Delhi, it was 980 kms only on the Odo and I was skeptical if it was the right decision to take this instead of the Civic, which has driven with me from Kolkata to Bangalore and then Bangalore to Delhi within a weeks time without a single issue apart from numerous other numerous roadtrips. But the decision of taking the Ignis couldnt have been better. I am back a Fan Boy A friend of mine and bhpian accompanied me in the return drive, and he is impressed as well. He was looking for a new car, and has already decided on the Ignis. To top it all I got an average of 19+ tankful to tankful for the entire trip and I am not a slow driver. I am a happy man.

Awesome! I hope after this gets resolved, I'd be a happy man too
Plus I'm getting a FE of 15.4 km/ltr (showing on console), realistic might be 13ish. Still good!
And yes, it handles really well for a tallboy and 80-100 kmph comes up quick.

[Vibhanshu]

Update

Hi Everyone,

I met the Nexa Factory Team (will be referred as NFT) last Friday. And here are the events/findings that happened.

There were 2 gentlemen. One from R&D, Chassis & Suspension and other from Quality Assurance.

What research work was done
3 Vehicles were driven: -

• Demo Vehicle - 26K Kms
• New Ignis AMT - under 50 Kms
• My Ignis - 2K Kms

The test drive included turns, slow speed, high speed and some serious lane change testing. I was almost clinging on to my life on the passenger seat. Either ways, they did the testing as they do it on their test track to check the steering. Fine!

Findings
Demo Vehicle was super smooth in steering. Good return ability. Good feedback on high speed also (there was a pull force on opposite direction if you change lane or turns).

New Ignis and my Ignis, both were exactly the same. Initial friction/Stiction was apparent. And same behavior as I've been complaining about.

So, did NFT agree to the difference on steering behavior?
Yes

Is this normal behavior for my (or new) Ignis cars?
According to NFT, the steering is fine and Normal! And as-per-design.

So what's causing this?
According to NFT, Ignis internal components are designed with certain tolerances in mind. And those tolerances will take time to open up over a period of time. The cars with high mileage will be smoother and new ones will have that initial friction.

Ok, I was very confused on the above answer and it's the first time I've heard something like this. We discussed about other cars like DZire, Brezza or cars from other manufacturers. They don't have this issue so how come only Ignis has this?
NFT says, the steering engineered for Ignis has taken account for fast lane changes (for a tall boy), handling, to avoid oversteer and additional ruggedness for underbody. That's why the tolerances of mechanical are tightened up. The side effect of that could be a steering that initially hard but will open up over time. A conscious decision was taken to keep the steering this way and was approved overall. So what I'm experiencing right now is not abnormal or outside of manufacturing or design specifications. Also, all the above has a cost side to it as well and trade offs included.

Infact, NFT said there was no need to replace the steering rack as well.

How many Kms will it take to open up the steering?
NFT didn't confirm this. They said it depends, if you drive on highways (straights) or cities (lots of turns). They asked me to take it around city more (I live in Navi Mumbai with straight Palm Beach road).

What do I think of all this?
First of all, I have some peace of mind that there is nothing faulty in my car which is confirmed by Nexa Factory guys. So there is some re-assurance and I can sleep better that nothing will break at the wrong time.

Second, I'm not very happy with this. While the concept of prioritizing underbody components is good, a hard steering takes a away convenience and ease of driving. Combine that with 3.8 turns lock to lock - you'd gain half inch on biceps over time with the exercise.

Ignis is not a cheap or VFM car and out of all, I'd expect this to be better especially given that other manufacturers are already doing this including Nexa themselves.

What's the next step from here?
What NFT tells me is that my email went to the top most directors and executives. And my car apparently is on the watch list.

I've told them that, I'll be monitoring the steering with a checkpoint of 5K, 10K etc and see if this really opens up. And obviously driving a bit more intown too. If there's no progress, NFT has promised to come back again.

About Nexa Factory Team
Very fine gentlemen. Very courteous and listened carefully to me and spent good time with all the cars. I could also see that they were very passionate about their cars and how seriously they take customer feedback. Things reach to top most executives and crunch a lot of data while upgrading/designing cars. This includes services too. They were extremely tired (early morning flight from delhi, fog, delayed etc) but still super active during the whole procedure. They also cancelled their evening flight because they wanted to ensure I'm satisfied and have all the answers. I will certainly thank them for this effort.

Summing up
While the steering didn't become what I expected immediately. I'm atleast satisfied to know my car is not faulty. But also a bit unhappy that steering could have been better. I have given them feedback to upgrade this and also to reduce the total turns in their facelift and to atleast make it compatible with older cars. I don't mind spending on upgrading this. If the steering opens up in time, I think I'll be good then.

I'd still be reaching out to fellow members to drive Ignis and for others to checkout my car. See if Nexa's claim is true! And probably call the Nexa guys again and update this thread.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Update
According to NFT, Ignis internal components are designed with certain tolerances in mind. And those tolerances will take time to open up over a period of time. The cars with high mileage will be smoother and new ones will have that initial friction.

That is not correct. You do not design components and assembly this way i.e wearing due to friction over a period of time to make it work normal. They should go back and check following.

1. Any recent changes in components design
2. Any supplier change
3. Is there difference in components in case multiple suppliers
4. Component test reports (different batches) for any extreme variations

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

That is not correct. You do not design components and assembly this way i.e wearing due to friction over a period of time to make it work normal. They should go back and check following.

1. Any recent changes in components design
2. Any supplier change
3. Is there difference in components in case multiple suppliers
4. Component test reports (different batches) for any extreme variations

All the 4 points above were asked. Answer was a no. No change.

And as per NFT, they didn't design the components as per mileage. But rather designed to keep it hard itself. Now since components open up after driving, it feels better. That's the logic of Nexa.

Not that I believe this blind, but that was the answer given point blank.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

All the 4 points above were asked. Answer was a no. No change.

No company will give "YES" answer to any of those questions by a customer.
What happens if components "opens up" bit more than required?

Please keep this issue open till you get the issue resolved.

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

No company will give "YES" answer to any of those questions by a customer.
What happens if components "opens up" bit more than required?

Please keep this issue open till you get the issue resolved.

Agreed 100%. The thread is not closed. And this line of questioning has reached the top directors in my email. That's how the factory team was here. I've also told them that I'll be back with checks/feedbacks.

And like you mentioned in the previous post, all those questions have been sent too to senior executives. Talking to Nexa team, I have some reliability that someone important is certainly reading it and taking note.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

Findings
Demo Vehicle was super smooth in steering. Good return ability. Good feedback on high speed also (there was a pull force on opposite direction if you change lane or turns).

New Ignis and my Ignis, both were exactly the same. Initial friction/Stiction was apparent. And same behavior as I've been complaining about.

So, did NFT agree to the difference on steering behavior?
Yes

Is this normal behavior for my (or new) Ignis cars?
According to NFT, the steering is fine and Normal! And as-per-design.

So what's causing this?
According to NFT, Ignis internal components are designed with certain tolerances in mind. And those tolerances will take time to open up over a period of time. The cars with high mileage will be smoother and new ones will have that initial friction.

Vibhanshu, I do not agree with the NFT team's so called "finding". As mentioned earlier my Alpha AMT, September 2017 never had this kind of steering issue from day one.

This seems a cover up of some sort and would not surprise me if newer batches (after your complaint and remedial action) would not exhibit this behaviour. This seems some sort of steering component issue to me which they don't want to acknowledge. Perhaps they don't want the bad press involved in a recall and expenses generated from it.

Your mileage is only around the 2k mark, why on earth should you (or any owner) have to bear with this issue after paying so much money for 5k to10k kms. They are not even sure when this issue would be sorted.

I feel you should think about returning the car and push for a full refund. This is a safety concern as you have mentioned also. DO NOT accept their polite nonsense under any circumstances.

Cheers

[Latheesh]

I just drove my colleague's few months old (~ 6K on the ODO) Ignis Zeta AMT and steering is perfectly normal and light. He never faced any issues even during initial months.

[caffeineAM]

Originally Posted by Vibhanshu

And as per NFT, they didn't design the components as per mileage. But rather designed to keep it hard itself. Now since components open up after driving, it feels better. That's the logic of Nexa.

I don't understand this logic at all. How do these 'components' 'open up'? Are they saying their suspension/steering torque settings go off factory spec and that makes things better?

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by caffeineAM

I don't understand this logic at all. How do these 'components' 'open up'? Are they saying their suspension/steering torque settings go off factory spec and that makes things better?

They used a term called "Burnishing". Not going off spec, but the mechanical components (bearings etc) burnish in contact with each other making it smoother over time. Going off spec, means it would give signs of problems/wear.

Originally Posted by Latheesh

I just drove my colleague's few months old (~ 6K on the ODO) Ignis Zeta AMT and steering is perfectly normal and light. He never faced any issues even during initial months.

There are only 2 things possible: -
- Either Nexa is playing this all along. Perhaps trying to figure out their parts in backend while not telling anything to me.
- I have been wasting everyone's time and steering is just fine. Maybe driving Fiesta & Cedia before Ignis has corrupted me.

B-u-t the demo cars (which probably only I have driven) are so much better. Burnishing? Donno/Maybe.

Reality Check on T-Bhp- Cyborg & I are most likely catching up over the weekend. He also drives a Ignis. I am extremely keen to know his viewpoint. My issue would get important validation and what he feels about my car's steering.

Will report back after this catchup! Looking forward.

[jeeva]

Somebody was mentioning about the same issue with a Polo as well. I have personally faced this. The ASC wanted to replace the rack.
99% of the time, this happens when the grease/oil around the rack and the pinion gets dried up. Opening up the rack and lubricating it mostly solves this issue. Molybdenum grease is what you need to use. You car is still under warranty, I suppose. Any FNG can do this for you.

[Vibhanshu]

Originally Posted by jeeva

Somebody was mentioning about the same issue with a Polo as well. I have personally faced this. The ASC wanted to replace the rack.
99% of the time, this happens when the grease/oil around the rack and the pinion gets dried up. Opening up the rack and lubricating it mostly solves this issue. Molybdenum grease is what you need to use. You car is still under warranty, I suppose. Any FNG can do this for you.

Thanks for the input.

What you say "around the rack... opening up rack and lubricating", do you mean opening and lubricating the damper which is present in the rack? Damper is basically which controls the stiffness and lightness of the rack. You can attach the device to pinion and note torque values (depending on rack boot is attached or takeen off).

In my case, that's also done. A new rack was installed and the damper was set to the same tightness (torque specifications) mentioned in the service manual.

Edit: the damper was lubricated as well during the rack replacement. Not sure if it was Moly Grease. The service center used some of their default stuff.

Am I missing something?

[car-dent]

When i initially changed to scross from linea, the steering felt very weird. Similar to the "sticky" feeling you mentioned.
But it feels much better now after about 10,000 kms.
I believe two things happen, first we get used to the thing over a period of time and the bias of previous experience weans away. Second, the components do "open up" with use and get smoother. Just my two cents.