Team-BHP - OBD (On-board diagnostics) for Indian Cars

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolaks7 (Post 4162479)

Guys, need help in diagnosing the error codes on Maruti Ritz Petrol (1.2K series). Till yesterday, the car was working fine but this morning when I started the car, it was revving erratically. I reversed the car out of my parking space and as soon as I shifted from 1st to 2nd, I noticed engine check light turning on and RPM getting limited to 1-1.2k. Thankfully, I had an ELM 27 adapter lying around and upon connecting it shows the following error codes on Torque Pro App:

P0108- Powertrain: Manifold Absolute Pressure High Input
P2229- Powertrain: Barometric Pressure High
P0103- Powertrain: Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit High Input

A quick Google search reveals, it is relating to MAP/MAF sensor. But how to identify whether the sensor has gone Kaput or is it a loose connection related issue.

Rats Issue? Please check for rat visit traces under the hood, overnight multiple errors coming up is suspicious.

Try clearing the errors, and cranking again and then rescan to confirm which ones comes back.

I am planning to buy an OBD2 bluetooth scanner for my Honda Brio 2012 model. However I am confused little bit on which product should I buy.

After going through the OBD threads and a bit of online search, I am pretty much clear that ELM 327 is commonly used. But the problem starts when I look to purchase this. There are quite a lot of variants available out there with different sort of pricing. For example v2.1 itself is available with different prices starting from Rs500 and going till $50.

ELM 327 IC chip and code was initially manufactured by ELM Electronics. However they had not done the patent for their initial product v1.0 and as a result the code was cloned. Version 1.5 was never released by ELM, however we can see lot of v1.5 versions available online.

And there are other smart guys who are doing white labeled approach. These dealers (total car diagnostics for example) openly admits that they are using latest ELM software codes, however they are using their own IC chips. These guys charge a premium and give 1 year cash back scheme.

So more or less it seems like everyone out there uses the same software code, however the underlying IC hardware chip is that one which makes the difference. This could be the reason why few sellers are able to sell with cheaper prices. There could be significant differences in the hardware capabilities.

Now coming back to my requirement, I have very minimal knowledge when it comes to ECU, tuning related stuffs. I am buying this product to explore these areas and probably this would come handy in near future as my car is already 5 years old.

Please help me in taking an informed decision, whether to go for a cheaper purchase which in all probability would work normally and provide decent amount of information or should I purchase from some one like total car diagnostics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiser_D (Post 4168326)

Your post suggested me to do some research on the topic. And found that all the blue clone elm devices do not have elm327 chip at all. ELM 327 V1.0 was not copy protected. So program from the chip was reverse engineered and used that program in the Bluetooth module.

What about Vgate with ARM OBD scanners?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushantr5 (Post 4168347)

Thanks Sushant,

I just did a brief search on VGATE product with ARM chips. But the irony is that they could be still using cloned ELM 327 firmwares on those chips. The link given below for one of their models is explicitly mentioning that as well.

http://www.banggood.com/Mini-Vgate-WIFI-ICar-IV350-ELM327-OBDII-OBD2-Diagnostic-Scanner-p-915531.html

The genuiune ELM 327 adapter uses a PIC microcontroller on which the ELM 327 software code is loaded. This information is available on their website. But VGATE uses ARM chips and if they are using ELM software codes, it would not function properly since ARM chips would be incompatible with PIC instruction codes. This approach could be a vulnerable proposition which means either some of the features wouldn't work or would display wrong data.

Rather if someone runs a cloned ELM software image on PIC controller itself, more likely that most of the features would function properly as there would be no hardware compatibility issues as such.

Totalcardiagnostics.com claims they are using genuine ELM 327 software codes, but doesn't use chips from ELM and the reason given is that it would be expensive to license. I am thinking of writing to them to get some information on those custom chips they are using. The price they quote is $37 and comes in USB/bluetooth/wifi models. Shall keep you posted.

Disclaimer: The information shared here is based on the details which I could gather online and I mean no offence to any of those products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiser_D (Post 4168446)

Thanks Sushant,

http://www.banggood.com/Mini-Vgate-WIFI-ICar-IV350-ELM327-OBDII-OBD2-Diagnostic-Scanner-p-915531.html

The genuiune ELM 327 adapter uses a PIC microcontroller on which the ELM 327 software code is loaded. This information is available on their website. But VGATE uses ARM chips and if they are using ELM software codes, it would not function properly since ARM chips would be incompatible with PIC instruction codes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushantr5 (Post 4168347)

ELM 327 V1.0 was not copy protected. So program from the chip was reverse engineered and used that program in the Bluetooth module.

What about Vgate with ARM OBD scanners?

Folks, Let me try to break it down for you:

-First, What is your objective of owning an OBD Adapter?
Is it to Check/Clear DTC, check Live PID values: Then a good clone of ELM is more than enough, Need not spend on expensive dongles.
Is it to record loads of PID values when on track and analyze how your engine behaves: Then you might need very high quality dongle that might also come with own application for analyses
Is it to get your car "connected" to support/similar user group: Then you need a dongle which is a vertical solution, which comes with hardware/app/cloud/breakdown/etc support

Second, There is no need to break your head if your purpose is Check/Clear DTC, check Live PID values, My opinion is to buy Any ELM327 from anywhere, which has PIC 25K80 controller and its 1.5a firmware version. This is most stable version of all. Size/color/brand/With or Without Switch is your preference. :thumbs up

FYI..Most of clones have AFAIK pin 4 & 5 shorted, due to which, people randomly see ABS/AirBag/Speedometer go crazy when they connect or scan the car
:deadhorse

You can check your quality of ELM by running app: ELM327 Checker

Quote:

Originally Posted by devrajman (Post 4168592)

Folks, Let me try to break it down for you:

Second, There is no need to break your head if your purpose is Check/Clear DTC, check Live PID values, My opinion is to buy Any ELM327 from anywhere, which has PIC 25K80 controller and its 1.5a firmware version. This is most stable version of all. Size/color/brand/With or Without Switch is your preference. :thumbs up

You can check your quality of ELM by running app: ELM327 Checker

Thanks Devraj.

So basically an adapter with PIC controller and an ELM firmware running on it is good enough for personal use. My purpose would be limited to check/clear codes, extract the values from Data PIDs for various functions.

so now when it comes to purchase, we have to ensure that adapter should have dedicated PIC controller rather than just a bluetooth controller (mostly ARM based) for running ELM firmwares. I found a product from Aliexpress and exploring for other options as well now to finalize.

Best Quality ELM327 With PIC18F 25K80 Chip ELM 327 OBD2 Code Reader Bluetooth Adapter Support All OBD2 Protocols CNP Free

Please let me know if you have seen other options. Also is there any sensor for monitoring TPMS in the entry segments. If so can we access TPMS data via Torque APP in Android phones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiser_D (Post 4168945)

Small correction in your understanding,
PIC controller has ELM firmware running. Bluetooth chip is usually BEKEN, either is on same PCB as PIC controller or external connected by pins.

You can buy from anywhere, just make sure, it clears states: PIC 25K80 controller and its 1.5a firmware version

ARM is like PIC, which runs ELM firmware, not that well but.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devrajman (Post 4169366)

Yes I got it Devraj. Perhaps I didnt write it out clearly what I had to convey.

https://timyouard.wordpress.com/2015...er-from-china/

It seems like there are few adapters available out there which even dont have a dedicated microcontroller. Rather they use the bluetooth controller for running ELM firmwares!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 (Post 4176202)

Does an OBD scanner help in assessing the condition of the Turbo & Intercooler etc. ? Simply put, is it equivalent to a mechanic in assessing the engine condition?

Turbo condition can be assessed by looking at the boost pressure values. I am using one on my Swift and the boost figures seems accurate. Regarding Intercooler, I presume we can look into the intake temperature to get an idea? Maybe experts can comment on this part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 (Post 4176202)

How reliable are these scanners for evaluation of the engine condition in used cars?

AFAIK, The conventional methods that a mechanic follows to assess the engine are -
1) Exhaust color test
2) Engine Oil Spatter

Does an OBD scanner help in assessing the condition of the Turbo & Intercooler etc. ? Simply put, is it equivalent to a mechanic in assessing the engine condition?

The scanner can provide values of engine and other parameters.
Interpreting those values is where human intervention is required.

A good mechanic or engineer can spot a lot of things that the scanner can't because it can only get values from various sensors.
If the particular sensor is not there then no value.

But then again the scanner is very useful sometimes if you can interpret and correlate the values correctly.
It's a great aid for troubleshooting or keeping track of various parameters.
It can give early warnings if some parameter is going towards out of range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhp_maniac (Post 4176478)

Yes, Intercooler performance can be judged by the intake air temperature.

Hello All,

Could someone please post the benchmark/reference data of the critical engine parameters of Swift Diesel & Ertiga/Sx4 Diesel. I have recently bought an iCar2 and the reference data would be helpful to me in assessing the engine condition of a used vehicle(purchase).

Quote:

Originally Posted by a4anurag (Post 4158854)

Which year is your car? If it is post 2012, it will work.

a4anurag sir, pardon me I had to quote. Can the below post from your ownership thread be considered as benchmark figures?
Link

Also, I would be happy to lend iCar2 to anybody in Hyderabad for a short while.

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 (Post 4178673)

a4anurag sir, pardon me I had to quote. Can the below post from your ownership thread be considered as benchmark figures?

Hey, they can be taken but car was just 2K kms old so am honestly not sure if they can be labeled as benchmark figures.

What I'll do is, I'll put up values now with a fresh run tomorrow or day after.

I have another ELM reader too where I can get finer details.