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Old 1st January 2020, 22:12   #16
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Default Re: Kia Seltos : Official Review

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
The manual stick is slotting with no change in gear on display and gearbox. Continues on D2.
Ok. Please do raise it with KIA and let know once there is any rational update from them.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 09:50   #17
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
I have been having a DCT issue for past few weeks.
Thanks for sharing, sandygordon! This is a very serious issue and needs to be highlighted. Moving to new thread.

I am frankly not at all convinced about the long-term reliability of any dual-clutch gearbox, hence this line in the opening post of our review:
Quote:
Dual-clutch ATs (like the Petrol DCT) have a history of poor reliability in India
If I want a Seltos AT, it'll be the diesel with the good old torque converter for me.

Please do keep updating this thread .
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Old 3rd January 2020, 16:09   #18
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
My car had this for three times in the past one month. The gear ratio gets stuck in D2 without upshifting when in normal mode.
Hi Sandy

My cousin had exactly same issue in his petrol Laura DSG (The one that sold hardly a hundred copies), but unlike the Kia; Skoda guys have been very humble and accepted the issue immediately with proper communication too.

Firstly they did some software update, the thing worked fine for hardly a few kilometers and again the same issue cropped up of odd numbered gears not engaging on the move other than D7.

The guys at the service center and even at the regional level decided that the gearbox replacement is the solution, he curiously asked me and I said 'NO' as we wanted to be sure of the real problem before the factory assembly is touched. On just one e-mail; Skoda India obliged to send a team of experts to check the car and the problem diagnosed was some sensor which used to send info to the mechatronic controller; which in turn used to decide if to shift up or down.

So my advise is, don't go directly for replacement etc (Touching the factory assembly requires multiple visits later to get things perfect again), try to talk out for getting someone from Kia to come and inspect the vehicle; maybe the real issue isn't what the service guys are thinking.

One more such example:
Ford service guys decided to replace the engine head of an Endy 3.2 for diagnosing the jerks while driving. An e-mail to Anurag and Ford team came down to inspect the car - just to diagnose it as a faulty sensor feeding in wrong signals to ECU.

BTW, the OP; being an informed buyer, has noticed this issue. I won't be surprised if there are many such cars, but the owners are not even aware that they are driving a faulty assembly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
good old torque converter
That's exactly what differentiates these forums from the run of the mill auto stuff. Here people talk sense

I too, 4 years back used to think that dual clutch is best, just to later learn and realize the the experience of others and myself that a torque converter is an epitome of reliability and have the potential to outlive even the owner - if kept well.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th February 2020 at 11:04. Reason: Spacing
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Old 4th January 2020, 00:28   #19
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

Hi sandygordon,
Sorry to hear about this. I've a friend who had a similar issue with his Hyundai Venue. The explanation offered was that the clutch connected the odd numbered gears overheats in start-stop traffic when first gear is repeatedly engaged and disengaged. The TCU apparently prevents using that particular clutch when the car has been running excessively in stop & go traffic.

The car is used by his parents in Chennai, but he's in Mumbai. Hyundai have apparently promised a replacement gearbox. I'll ask him to send the full details once he gets it.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
.... good old torque converter for me.
Yeah, TCs have been perfected over decades. I think manufacturers shouldn't waste any more resources on DCT as tranmissions maybe a thing of the past soon. Worth mentioning that the 2020 Taycan has a 2 speed transmission.
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Old 4th January 2020, 03:22   #20
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

DCT is actually an AMT with 2 clutches, one for the odd numbered gears, and another for the even numbered gears. Here, only the even numbered gears are slotting in, and is skipping the odd numbered gears. So there is a problem with the clutch linked to the odd gears or actuators or shifter cables. Its better to push for gearbox replacement, to be on the safer side and also opt for maximum extended warranty.

You can take the car to a VAG FNG for an opinion if Kia can't handle the issue and then teach the Kia service folks.
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Old 4th January 2020, 08:53   #21
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

We Indians are not guniea pigs and manufacturers should understand that. If the dual clutch transmission has reliability problems then why the hell do they launch it in the first place?

They may be doing all the repair work free of cost under warranty but who will compensate for mental agony, lost time, cancelled holiday drives?

KIA/VAG please don't include dcts/dsgs if it's not suitable for Indian conditions period.

Don't use it as a bait to attract innocent customers. Torque converters too can be used to provide satisfactory performance provided it's tuned properly. Learn a thing or two from Tata Hexa's auto box and and spend some quality time in properly tuning it and viola! you have an auto box which is the best compromise between performance and reliability.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th February 2020 at 11:05. Reason: Spacing
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Old 4th January 2020, 09:31   #22
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

Well is it that the technology is underdeveloped or that our infrastructure is so poor that that they they are outside the design parameters of the said DSG boxes?

In rural India roads elecricity infrastructure are in such shambles that hi-tec vehicle can barely survive.

For instance, my tyres last 30k a set, all cars need regular damper/ bush/rim and wheel bearing changes.

Urban India has legendary traffic jams, enough to chew through any clutch/ GB in short periods of time.

Instead of turning the heat on the car manufacturers, it is imperative that we apportion equal responsibility/blame to our Govt Depts who manage and develop this sub standard infrastructure.

In addition to that for some reason Authorities are always willing to increase fines on Road users, however they dont want to invest in Driver Training/Licensing and Consumer Protection laws.

Anyway, hope Kia reacts positively and solve the DCT issue for the OP. Otherwise they may head for a Skoda like reputation in India.

Last edited by KMT : 4th January 2020 at 09:43.
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Old 4th January 2020, 10:26   #23
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I am frankly not at all convinced about the long-term reliability of any dual-clutch gearbox, hence this line in the opening post of our review:


If I want a Seltos AT, it'll be the diesel with the good old torque converter for me.
This is the exact reason I skipped Octavia and went for Civic. I will not deny that Octy is a hell of a car with it's DSG setup, I had taken multiple TD's and each time I felt more in love with it

But then I started to read about the DSG troubles in the different forums here, and just couldn't bite the bullet knowing that I generally keep a car for 8-10 years and even with 6 years of extended warranty, I will leave myself vulnerable for good amount of time.

Coming to Civic's CVT, I have driven it for around 1000km now, my usage is City commute mostly (Delhi) and the highway usage has been mostly on NH-24 for around 20kms per trip while going to Noida. Some points around the CVT gearbox:

- Don't compare with DSG, it's like apples to oranges comparison

- In city driving conditions, it's as good as it gets. I have never felt any lack of power to overtake, in fact, a gentle press on the accelerator does it. Mind that in city conditions, you are overtaking at speeds of 40-60 kmph.

- You generally will not even feel or notice the gear change, both upshift or downshift.

- On highways, it's quite easy and quick to touch 100kmph, you will be surprised by the ease it hits this mark. In fact till 115kmph, I did not have to revv the engine hard.

- Beyond 120kmph is where I have felt the need to push hard, and the engine/gearbox takes 1-2 seconds to understand my need, but it eventually does start to deliver.

- Overtaking on Highways is something I will wait for some more time to comment upon, so far I have not encountered a situation where I need to use manual shifters to drop a gear.

- Mileage so far has been constantly improving, started out single digit but currently is 10.5 kmpl with around 1000kms done. Probably the connection between my foot and the accelerator is continuing to improve

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th February 2020 at 11:05. Reason: Spacing
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Old 4th January 2020, 10:47   #24
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

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Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
DCT is actually an AMT with 2 clutches,...
Exactly my thoughts, DCT in its current form is a glorified tech with very limited edge over today's TCs.

The advantages of DCT box over TC box are:

1. Faster shifts (but the difference is so slim)
2. Direct coupling (like manual, better efficiency)

Such a small diff over shifting times don't matter to many consumers who are not race drivers. Direct coupling reduces the transmission losses compared to fluid coupling increasing the efficiency (only by a small margin) but also makes it jerky (by a small margin).

More on reliability:
Manual Transmission is more reliable than TC Auto boxes. TCs are more reliable than DCT/CVTs.

The advantage you get in a TC Auto box compared to manual gearbox far more outweigh the dip on reliability of TC. But the advantages you get in a DCT compared to TC doesn't justify the cost and reliability.

It is a given that DCTs will also improve in the coming years, but for now,
given these parameters, TCs are the way to go till DCTs become as reliable as TCs.
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Old 4th January 2020, 10:57   #25
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Default DCT Gearbox issue: Follow up from Kia

The service manager at Incheon Kia,Cochin contacted me today. Kudos to Cochin team for following this up diligently.

According to him he has got a mail from Kia HQ regarding the issue.
Kia has received up to 3 to 4 concerns regarding this behavior by the DCT gearbox. They are of the opinion that this is a software issue and has been addressed in the patch update rolled out for DCT models.
He said that the same has been done in my car and won't have another issue of the same nature. The first customer who has experienced it is running on the update and has no further issues for almost 1k km.

He agreed that this issue had cropped up in many centers all over India and most of them has no new issues after the patch update.

He also reassured that the Korean gear boxes recalled had vehicles stalling due to a mechanical problem which has already been addressed in the Indian model at launch.They are sure that this is a code glitch in the actuator software which has been addressed in the new patch update.

He said that he would arrange a telephonic conversation with regional service head at Kia HQ on Monday. I expressed my concern and my disappointment on deleting the transmission temperature warning.

Hope this is a software glitch. Fingers crossed
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Old 4th January 2020, 12:26   #26
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Default Re: DCT Gearbox issue: Follow up from Kia

Thanks for the update!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
According to him he has got a mail from Kia HQ regarding the issue.
Team-BHP effect .

Quote:
He said that the same has been done in my car and won't have another issue of the same nature. The first customer who has experienced it is running on the update and has no further issues for almost 1k km.
Great to hear. Please keep updating this thread.

Quote:
I expressed my concern and my disappointment on deleting the transmission temperature warning.
Kia is learning Indian jugaad? Best way to solve gearbox overheating problem is to remove the temp gauge!
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Old 4th January 2020, 16:49   #27
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Default Re: DCT Gearbox issue: Follow up from Kia

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
I expressed my concern and my disappointment on deleting the transmission temperature warning.

Hope this is a software glitch. Fingers crossed
Glad to hear there is a fix for the issue, and hope it fixes it.

Got an SMS from KIA yesterday to update software on my 7 DCT, and got it done today. As you mentioned the temperature gauge vanished.

But I was able to set it back again using the setup key ( the steel knob under the temperature/tyre pressure display button). Looks like the temperature guage is not the default display after the update. You might want to check.

Last edited by aravindkumarp : 4th January 2020 at 16:53. Reason: Added context
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Old 4th January 2020, 17:39   #28
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Default Re: DCT Gearbox issue: Follow up from Kia

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Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
He also reassured that the Korean gear boxes recalled had vehicles stalling due to a mechanical problem which has already been addressed in the Indian model at launch.They are sure that this is a code glitch in the actuator software which has been addressed in the new patch update.

He said that he would arrange a telephonic conversation with regional service head at Kia HQ on Monday.
This is India, and all verbal assurances & sweet talk like this are to be taken with a bucket of salt. I would highly recommend you to get their assurances in writing, both from your dealer and from the regional service head, and see if they start to squirm.

As per Occam's razor, your problem is the same as the Korean one, unless proven otherwise.

I do wish for your issue to be fixed with this SW update, but honestly, it's hard to believe that a gearbox that's been on sale for many years in the global market had a SW issue that they only fixed now. How is that even possible?
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Old 4th January 2020, 17:46   #29
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Default Re: DCT Gearbox issue: Follow up from Kia

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Originally Posted by aravindkumarp View Post

But I was able to set it back again using the setup key ( the steel knob under the temperature/tyre pressure display button). Looks like the temperature guage is not the default display after the update. You might want to check.
Nice to know that it could be brought back using the setup, good info for all owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
This is India, and all verbal assurances & sweet talk like this are to be taken with a bucket of salt. I would highly recommend you to get their assurances in writing, both from your dealer and from the regional service head, and see if they start to squirm.
Keep all communication through mails and keep the conversations open and pleasant.

I hope the ECU update fixes this, but would also want to wait and watch for next 2-3K Kms of run, just to be sure.
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Old 4th January 2020, 18:57   #30
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Default Re: Serious gearbox issue in my Kia Seltos DCT

What if there was an MG or Tata vehicle giving the same problem?

We would have bashed them like anything calling them Chinese, truck manufacturer which can never make a car or in worst case make the car pull by a donkey.

Since its an Kia, we all are going deep into the technical stuff and trying to find out the actual root cause of the problem giving Kia the benefit of doubt. I don't care what Kia is doing to solve it but the problems in a gearbox or engine is a serious issue and shouldn't be considered as a one-off issue (in fact many others are facing it.)

Not many are technically inclined to look into the details like us.

Many of us believe that infrastructure is to be blamed. It could be to a certain extent. But manufacturers should be wise enough to launch a suitable product accordingly. Why don't Toyota bring all their global cars here? They have large trucks and SUVs with engine capacities which might not be suitable for our country.

Many don't even spare the hawker even if a single banana is spoilt from the dozen that you got from him. Why then are the car manufacturers let off even if it's a one off case?

A single crash by a Tesla autopilot sends alarm bell ringing in other countries. Similar should be a case here. Kia should issue a circular regarding the issue. A person driving a car should look on the road and not on the dashboard fearing that his or her gearbox might be burning hot inside. Remember, even a single second lapse is enough to cause a major accident.

A Ktruss missing from the Endeavor, i20 getting unsafe ratings inspite of it being a premium hatchback, Royal Enfield Himalaya breaking into 2 pieces, repeated DSG failures in Volkswagen, Heartech platform which gives you heart in the mouth moments in case of accidents, SHVS issues, etc. are enough examples of manufacturers taking us for granted.

If a new comer like Kia don't handle this issue well, then others will become bold enough to experiment with us and we as a buyers will be at loss of both, life and limbs.

A rule should be passed where OEM gives an official declaration of all the issues a particular model faces and ways to resolve it within a particular time frame from the day the problem arises. Otherwise they should face a criminal lawsuit. It will safeguard us from potential future problems and keep buyers aware about the things to look out for in a particular model.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 28th February 2020 at 11:07. Reason: Spacing
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