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-   -   Which is more effective Turbocharger or Supercharger ? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/2184-more-effective-turbocharger-supercharger-3.html)

The Wolf 21st May 2007 21:06

Turbochargers are best in any angle you see but, but, the installation and maintenance is twice as much complicated and expensive if we are sticking to aftermarket installations. A TC set up can be made to deliver extremely linear boost too , a combination of two TC's(Twin turbo or more set up) can be set up to perfection by a experienced professional, I mean the boost from absolutely low rpms to extremely high can be managed without sudden power surges! TC's are better than SC's when it comes to extracting outright power without experiencing any parasitic losses for racing purpose too.

However, when it comes to ease of installation and expense, SC's could be preferred. If you want a quick street car with great driveability and dont wana spend too much money, time on maintenance...SC's are the way to go!!!

Hybrids that use both are more efficient and driveable.

That should answer most of your layer 1 queries...

v1p3r 21st May 2007 21:07

Very nice diagram. So they use both, a clutch and a bypass valve.

Deepz 22nd May 2007 11:59

Thanks V1p3r and Pawan..The diagram really helped..the Impreza engine looks like a neat piece of art..

Godfather 22nd May 2007 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 444089)
However, when it comes to ease of installation and expense, SC's could be preferred. If you want a quick street car with great driveability and dont wana spend too much money, time on maintenance...SC's are the way to go!!!

...

Bro.. In order to install a Supercharger your engine should have the capacity to turn the Supercharger turbine.. Not many cars are capable of this.. Try fitting a SC on the Vtec and chances are the SC will never come on.and FYI.. SC's are more expensive than TC. a good TC can maxx boost the car to say 100bhp more..and a Vortex can boost upto 400bhp..

Its not a easy bolt on job to install a SC.

Godfather

pawan 22nd May 2007 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather (Post 445258)
Bro.. In order to install a Supercharger your engine should have the capacity to turn the Supercharger turbine.. Not many cars are capable of this.. Try fitting a SC on the Vtec and chances are the SC will never come on.and FYI.. SC's are more expensive than TC. a good TC can maxx boost the car to say 100bhp more..and a Vortex can boost upto 400bhp..

Its not a easy bolt on job to install a SC.

Godfather

this is the main reason why majority of the american v8 use sc and also the temperature part to.

Godfather 22nd May 2007 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawan (Post 445267)
this is the main reason why majority of the american v8 use sc and also the temperature part to.


Thanks..i had forgotten about the temperature part.

Godfather

v1p3r 23rd May 2007 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather (Post 445258)
Try fitting a SC on the Vtec and chances are the SC will never come on.and FYI.. SC's are more expensive than TC. a good TC can maxx boost the car to say 100bhp more..and a Vortex can boost upto 400bhp..

Well, depends on the size of the SC. Have seen smaller SCs, like the one on the BMW Mini and the Merc C class, which would work well on the sub 150 bhp Hondas. And I've also seen TCs that give out 300+ bhp on a 1.6, so I don't think you can generalise.

The Wolf 23rd May 2007 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather (Post 445258)
Bro.. In order to install a Supercharger your engine should have the capacity to turn the Supercharger turbine.. Not many cars are capable of this.. Try fitting a SC on the Vtec and chances are the SC will never come on.and FYI.. SC's are more expensive than TC. a good TC can maxx boost the car to say 100bhp more..and a Vortex can boost upto 400bhp..

Its not a easy bolt on job to install a SC.

Godfather


Hehe, dude you gotta do your home work again! There are various sizes of SC's available in the market and they can be made to fit in any car, I repeat any car!!! Just to suffice, there is a SC'd vtec in chennai running JR supercharger which is capable of running quarter miles in under 15secs :) on absolutely stock internals and zero external mods! I had a brief discussion with the man who installed it, he says the install be completed in around 2 hours if the whole kit is sourced. I wonder how many TC installs can be completed in 2 hours??!!

Your theory of 100bhp and 400bhp isnt correct. A well matched TC can double the power of any car with any power at around 14.7 psi, thats 1 bar...and yeah thats possible only if there are no parasitic losses like that of a supercharger.

The Wolf 23rd May 2007 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawan (Post 445267)
this is the main reason why majority of the american v8 use sc and also the temperature part to.

And you my friend, the reason why most big/long blocks use superchargers are coz they produce enormous amounts of torque hence the parasitic losses while running a SC is negligible!!!And dont forget the ease of install/maintenance. Its only when the engine isnt producing enough torque that people dont have an option than to go in for TC's taking all the pain it takes to make and maintain the installation, temperature issues et al.

v1p3r 23rd May 2007 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 445439)
quarter miles in under 15secs :) on absolutely stock internals and zero external mods!

Seen it. You will still need a larger airfilter, and the SC itself, so I don't know what you mean by zero external mods. And yes, no internal mods, but how long do you expect your conrods to last, or your rings for that matter, under repeated high-stress applications. And I define high stress as any positive pressure.

The Wolf 23rd May 2007 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r (Post 445450)
Seen it. You will still need a larger airfilter, and the SC itself, so I don't know what you mean by zero external mods. And yes, no internal mods, but how long do you expect your conrods to last, or your rings for that matter, under repeated high-stress applications. And I define high stress as any positive pressure.

Lets keep this thread within the scope of its context. Lets take this on PMs before the mods mysteriously appear, wat say? They find me and you very interesting for some reason!!!LOL

ported_head 23rd May 2007 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 445458)
Lets keep this thread within the scope of its context. Lets take this on PMs before the mods mysteriously appear, wat say? They find me and you very interesting for some reason!!!LOL

No no, let it go on. Take it to PMs and deprive us of knowledge? Us mods don't mind reading a good techie argument.

The Wolf 23rd May 2007 04:38

Disclaimer: Per Mods allowance continuing the discussion!:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r (Post 445450)
Seen it. You will still need a larger airfilter, and the SC itself, so I don't know what you mean by zero external mods. .

By external modification I meant intake manifold mod, injector upgrade, ignition coil upgrade, fuel/oil/water pump upgrade, intercooler, ecu upgrade etc And yeah, As you learn more about tuning, you will realize that bigger airfilters are no more considered "MODIFICATIONs"

Nice try with the "SC itself thingie"!!! That definitely made me laugh!!!LOL


Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r (Post 445450)
And yes, no internal mods, but how long do you expect your conrods to last, or your rings for that matter, under repeated high-stress applications. And I define high stress as any positive pressure.

The car that I am talking about is a daily drive for the guy who owns it and it has already run few thousand kms without problems, I wonder how he is running it with bent con rods and disfigured piston rings... just kidding man...he doesnt seem to have any problems that I know of yet!!!

Godfather 23rd May 2007 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 445475)
By external modification I meant intake manifold mod, injector upgrade, ignition coil upgrade, fuel/oil/water pump upgrade, intercooler, ecu upgrade etc And yeah, As you learn more about tuning, you will realize that bigger airfilters are no more considered "MODIFICATIONs"

Are you sure fitting all this takes less than 2 hours..or were you talking about the supercharger alone?? i am confused here.

Godfather

v1p3r 23rd May 2007 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 445475)
By external modification I meant intake manifold mod, injector upgrade, ignition coil upgrade, fuel/oil/water pump upgrade, intercooler, ecu upgrade etc

Bro, you're telling me he is running boost and hasn't upgraded fuel pump and injectors, I would call him a little shortsighted but ok. If you're telling me he is running enough boost to get a 15 second time, and not running an intercooler, I wouldn't say that's very smart. Especially in Chennai. Have you seen it? I don't think we are referring to the same car, in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 445475)
And yeah, As you learn more about tuning, you will realize that bigger airfilters are no more considered "MODIFICATIONs"

As you learn more about definitions in general, you will realise that any aftermarket parts are considered modifications. Like that guy who ran a 10.xx in his Z06, with a stock engine bay and only upgraded tyres. And 11.xx in factory spec. If he says airfilter is modification, I believe him.


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