[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by hserus

If you got that level of testing hats off but even with cotton filters and foam oil filters - you can’t perfectly clean those, and both of them deteriorate over time..

You are absolutely correct again and that is exactly why I never recommend using the engine air filter or the AC filter for too long beyond the recommended service interval. Cleaning and reusing them for a short while after the recommended service interval is fine though.

About the engine oil filter, I religiously stick to the recommended service schedule of 1 year or 10k kms for replacing the engine oil. And I always replace the engine oil filter whenever I replace the engine oil in my cars.

Originally Posted by hserus

Not sure if you’re also checking the viscosity of those fluids which is another consideration.

Sadly, I have no way of checking the viscosity of the engine oil apart from looking at the dipstick and feeling the oil between my fingers. I think we can all agree here that this is absolutely not a very scientific method.

Similarly, for the brake fluid as well, I have no way of determining its viscosity apart from testing for moisture content and/or discoloration of the fluid. As an alternative, a multimeter can also be used instead of a brake fluid tester to check if the potential difference between the brake fluid and the battery negative is more than 0.3 volts.

Testing the coolant is a different story though. I can measure its condition with both the multimeter as well as a refractometer to check the amount of usable ethylene glycol in it.

Again, thank you for your kind appreciation

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

About replacing the engine oil, I stick to the Hyundai recommended schedule of 1 year or 10000 kilometres very religiously even though the condition of the engine oil can be easily determined by having a look at the dipstick especially in case of naturally aspirated petrol engines like mine unlike the diesel ones.

The thing about oil is that it is possible to objectively guage the condition of the oil using laboratory testing. Most manfacturers are extremely conservative.

On my last vehicle a GX 470 with a 4.7L V8, I changed oil at 200,000 miles, and then kept this synthetic oil running for over 10000 miles.

See the report. The oil was in great condition, and asked me to go for 12000 miles interval

Report :


they forgot to do TBN and then send me another report later


I then got more ambitious and decided the next oil change will be at 15000 miles - Exactly what it says on the oil box - 15000 miles long drain oil. But fate had another plans, and on an overlanding trip, the GX 470 was totalled at around 220,000 miles.

I got this vehicle at 156000 miles and changed oil every 10,000 miles. The engine was in top condition, and would have easily run 300,000 miles without issue.

So go for a laboratory test report if available in your neck of the woods. Oil analysis is like a blood test. It will tell you everything right and wrong with the engine.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The thing about oil is that it is possible to objectively guage the condition of the oil using laboratory testing. Most manfacturers are extremely conservative.
.

Used oil analysis is widely available but it is extremely expensive. In general if you are operating extremely large pieces of machinery (marine diesel engines in ships for example, or fleets of large trucks that all get their oil changed on a common schedule) then it would be economical for you to pay for a UOA and then figure out how long you can reasonably stretch your current oil. You would certainly pay far more than it costs to refill oil and change the oil filter in a typical passenger car or SUV.

[RJK]

Originally Posted by hserus

Used oil analysis is widely available but it is extremely expensive. In general if you are operating extremely large pieces of machinery (marine diesel engines in ships for example, or fleets of large trucks that all get their oil changed on a common schedule) then it would be economical for you to pay for a UOA and then figure out how long you can reasonably stretch your current oil. You would certainly pay far more than it costs to refill oil and change the oil filter in a typical passenger car or SUV.

Absolutely! It’s cheaper to change oil, even in a dealership than do oil analysis in India. I can say because we used to send engine oil samples for analysis every month of our rigs and the cost was far far higher.

Though Tanveer is absolutely right regarding the analysis, it’s financially not viable in India or Mumbai, atleast.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Exactly what it says on the oil box - 15000 miles long drain oil..

Originally Posted by RJK

Absolutely! It’s cheaper to change oil, even in a dealership than do oil analysis in India..

One point to note is that oil change interval and what grade of oil to use is determined after extensive used oil analysis both by car and lube manufacturers.

They calculate the oil change interval with a reasonable safety margin so that people who delay service by say a couple of thousand km don’t find their engines affected (or too much affected).

One thing to note - they will also provide a much shorter oil change interval for “severe service” which includes things like extremely hot / cold weather, as well as very frequent use (taxi levels or use, not a morning and evening office commute) in stop start city traffic. And even that has a safety margin built in, and is typically half of what the actual oil change interval is.

So if you are in a city with thick traffic and see that you might want to change your oil at around 7500-8000 km instead of 10000 km, go ahead. Follow the severe service spec more or less.

For those whose usage is far lower note the “x km OR six months / one year”, your oil won’t last beyond that unless you have some kind of special oil filter.

(large trucks and marine engines can look at installing a bypass filter for example)

[IamNikhil]

It's always good to go strictly by manufacturer recommendations about replacement, top-ups, clean-ups. A few thousand rupees saved by skimping on these in the process can prove to be terribly dangerous in the long run. Some practices that have been mentioned in the original post point to a "penny wise pound foolish" approach. Wouldn't advocate following such tactics at all if you want your car to be in pristine condition for the long term.

P.s. Hyundai & Maruti are definitely the easiest and cheapest to maintain, considering the easy availability of spares and wide service network across the length and breadth of the country.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by RJK

Absolutely! It’s cheaper to change oil, even in a dealership than do oil analysis in India. I can say because we used to send engine oil samples for analysis every month of our rigs and the cost was far far higher.

Though Tanveer is absolutely right regarding the analysis, it’s financially not viable in India or Mumbai, atleast.

Oil Analysis is not just to figure out longer drain intervels etc., but also guage the health of the engine. If your engine is not in a good shape, oil analysis can reveal it.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by hserus

... The fact still remains that if you go and get an extended warranty you’re stuck with servicing at an authorised service center ...

That is not necessarily true because Hyundai allows us to skip 2 scheduled services before the warranty gets void
I described this in detail with proof in one of my earlier comments.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

That is not necessarily true because Hyundai allows us to skip 2 scheduled services before the warranty gets void
I described this in detail with proof in one of my earlier comments.

At the dealers discretion and that. This is an exception not a rule and you would just have to convince the dealer, ++ the warranty claim would probably have to occur in a part or system that you have not DIY maintained.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

... not everyone has the time to keep cleaning the filters every 5k kms or 6 months ...

Maybe not and that is why the disclaimer exists in my original post. Personally, I feel that I can spare a total of 2-3 minutes once every month for cleaning both the engine air filter and AC air filter in my Creta.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Someone driving a Creta Petrol AT honestly shouldn't be complaining about wastage of money.

That is precisely the myth that I wanted to shatter through the contents of my original post. I believe that the 1st generation petrol Creta is the cheapest car to service in India which is larger than 4 metres and has a 5 star NCAP crash rating.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

And there are people who drive their cars. Actually clock kms and in their case the filters do get clogged thanks to the usage on varied terrain. Instead of cleaning the filters 10 times, it's easier to replace the same as it also saves time. As they say, Time= money.

Clearly, my original post is not intended for such people because if their time is so valuable then they wouldn't be wasting their time reading such posts. Also, if they drive more then it would not be financially sensible to invest in a petrol car in India, would it ?

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

I always tell this to my friends living in metros- There is a bigger India outside our cities.

I completely agree. I hail from a nondescript village in upper Assam where once upon a time, forget asphalt, even the nearest service workshop of Hindustan Motors (HM) was approximately 300 kilometres away which explains the reason why my Grandfather forced me to learn about DIY car maintenance techniques on his HM Landmaster more than half a century ago despite me being a female. I have been living in Kolkata only since 2005.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Your thread title ideally should have mentioned these are the costs for maintaining a creta petrol in Kolkata. Be it down south or in the western part of India, no way is a mechanic going to do all these things for 800 rupees.

Sadly, I cannot agree with you here. Even though I have not visited the southern parts of India, I have had numerous interactions with my fellow Creta owners from across India including both the southern and western regions across numerous Facebook Creta groups including one that I administer. I can say with confidence that it is possible to find cheap and good garages across the length and breadth of India.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

It's contradictory how you claim that you go by both the service and owner manuals but talk about using the same Cabin and air filter beyond the reccomended interval.

It is not contradictory at all because clearly, I do not follow the owner's manual in each and every single parameter. In some cases, I follow the owner's/service manual while in others I apply my own judgement.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

... I am sure you understand that aftermarket parts don't work that well with Hyundais in most cases ...

I do not recall recommending all aftermarket parts in my original post above. I clearly mentioned/recommended OEM parts without the Hyundai badging. For example, both Mann+Hummel and Inzi Controls India make the original Hyundai engine oil filters for the petrol Creta as well as sell the exact same ones in aftermarket shops as well but without the Hyundai badging. Hence, I do not see any issues in using these OEM engine oil filters since I can confirm that these have the exact same quality as the ones having the Hyundai badging on them. Even the model numbers are the same.

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Additionally, the fine dust particles that get clogged in both the Air and Cabin filters are very difficult to clean ... Good luck!

You are absolutely correct here and I do not recommend exceeding the recommended replacement schedule by too much. However, exceeding the replacement schedule of the air filters by a little bit is absolutely fine since regular cleaning can slow down the rate of dirt accumulation. Moreover, not every place has the same amount of dirt in the air.

Thank you for the kind wishes

[hserus]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Oil Analysis is not just to figure out longer drain intervels etc., but also guage the health of the engine. If your engine is not in a good shape, oil analysis can reveal it.

For an engine that has run more than 100k miles and with oil change schedules unknown it might be worth a try for sure. For newer vehicles and with other indicators manifesting themselves (engine roughness, residue in the oil sump etc) might not be entirely needed.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

... the Alto was taken for its 1st service which left a bad mark on myself as well as the car, more literally when it came to the Car, details below;
First Service Done! - Horrible Experience with Sarathy Service, Kollam! (Ownership review of my Maruti Suzuki Alto - Utilitarianism redefined, again!)

Oh no, that is precisely one of the reasons why I try to avoid authorized service centres and always recommend everyone to stick to the car like a magnet whenever it goes to someone else for service irrespective of whether it is the authorized service centre or an aftermarket garage. Also, your post again serves to bolster the utility of a dashcam (as if it needed more proof). I cannot stress the importance of a dashcam enough but sadly, it is one of the most ignored car accessories in India.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Being primarily a motorcycle person I am a novice when it comes to car maintenance and so hope to learn a lot from this thread, also I'm hoping you would share more DIY's cause personally I'd like to understand how a normal person in India can work on his/her own car especially as its scarce to find company when dirty hands are involved.

I do not think that you are a novice when it comes to car maintenance because anyone who can replace the engine oil in any vehicle cannot be considered a novice. Sadly, my only experience with a motorcycle was a 1989 Yamaha RX-100 which was used mostly by my husband and rarely by me.

Fun fact : My 1st generation 2017 Creta uses 5W-30 grade API SM or better engine oils which is very similar to that recommended in your Alto. My Creta also has the exact same engine oil drain bolt (17mm hex) and crush washer as the ones in your Alto

Speaking of DIY, please feel free to check out some of my other posts in the DIY category :-

1) https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...ngine-oil.html (Hyundai Creta DIY | Replacing the engine oil)

2) https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...-my-creta.html (DIY Install & Review | Y3S Dual Dashcam in my Creta)

3) https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...-use-cars.html (DIY: Water purification system for use in cars)

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

... when discussing air filters his stand was always against re-using filters cause he explained that the change in pore-size after every wash cycle did impact flow rate ...

I absolutely agree here and that is why I do not recommend anyone using the air filters for too long after the recommended intervals. However, using them for a short while after the recommended interval is fine especially with regular cleaning with a vacuum cleaner (not the blower mode) in the correct direction.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Another area where my opinion differs is the use of OEM's over OE, again if the quality can be verified then I'm all game

I do not think that your opinion is different from mine at all. I clearly mentioned/recommended OEM parts without the Hyundai badging. For example, both Mann+Hummel and Inzi Controls India make the original Hyundai engine oil filters for Hyundai (used by Hyundai ASCs) as well as sell the exact same ones in aftermarket shops as well but without the Hyundai badging. Hence, I do not see any issues in using these OEM engine oil filters since I can confirm that these have the exact same quality as the ones having the Hyundai badging on them since even the model numbers are the same.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Sorry for the longish post, I tend to get exited meeting fellow enthusiast who know a thing or two about getting their hands dirty and working on their own machines

Please, you do not have to apologize at all since I too have the same tendencies. Speaking of getting my hands dirty, my Grandfather used to force me to clean the carburettors in our cars and I used to hate it from the bottom of my heart. But today I am extremely thankful and grateful that he taught me the DIY approach to cars

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Your concerns are genuinely valid but thankfully most of them are unfounded in my case due to the reasons described below.

About topping up the brake fluid, I keep a strict eye on its condition by employing the use of a cheap brake fluid testing device. As long as the moisture content remains below 3%, I do not need to replace the brake fluid unless it gets very dirty. However, please be assured that we will replace it as soon as it is necessary. Here is my cheap brake fluid tester pen :-

Attachment 2211222

About replacing the coolant fluid mixture, I check its condition on a regular basis with a refractometer and a multimeter. I can assure you that we will replace it as soon as the coolant fluid mixture loses its utility. Here is my refractometer :-

Thank you very much for sharing your concerns. I hope that I was able to assuage them

Hats off to you. When I initially read your thread, I thought (very mistakenly) that perhaps you're being unnecessarily cheap by skimping on changing your filters, brake fluid and coolant on time. I mean, I totally get that the ASS is now totally milking unsuspecting rich car owners, but neglecting the basic service intervals seemed like overkill.

However, you blew me away with the attention to detail that you bring into your care for your car. Indeed it was an eye opener for me (and many others) to see the tools you use before determining if the fluids need replacement. Also, I noticed some disparaging comments, but ignore them. Many of the members are used to just giving their cars for servicing and are not half as knowledgeable as you in taking care of their rides.

I am fairly confident that your car must be much better maintained than many of our members, who blindly rely on the ASS to take care of their rides and to act ethically and change all fluids/parts on time.

Also Kudos to you for breaking a very common gender stereotype and how. Wish you many miles of safe driving in your superbly maintained Creta.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by hserus

You can definitely use any engine oil, brake fluid etc that fits your budget and suits the specifications Hyundai asks for and they document all those specifications.

You are absolutely correct as usual. I have no issues with using consumables of any reputed brand as long as they meet the recommended specifications. However, I do not like to mix consumables of different brands in any one particular case. This is simply because manufacturers do not mention all the constituents of their products on the labels. And to be on the safe side, I want to avoid any possible side-effects which may occur due to the inter-mixing of products of different brands. Let me explain with an example. The brake fluid currently in my car is of the FMVSS116 DOT 3 grade from Servo. If I need to top up the brake fluid now, I have the option of using a similarly graded one from SCCI Golden Cruiser or from any other reputed brand for that matter. But I will use only a similar fluid from Servo for topping it up till it is flushed out completely. However, once I flush out the brake fluid at the end of its life, I can go for any other reputed brand (as per the recommended grade) and stick to it till the next flush is done.

Originally Posted by hserus

Engine Oil - Shell HX8 or Shell Helix Taxi semi synthetic are the only 5w30 a3b4 rated oils in the market, unless you’re looking at the bs6 Creta for which you’re better off sticking with the OEM oil as 0w20 acea c5 isn’t common in the market and is quite expensive right now

The recommended engine oil grade for my BSIV petrol Creta is of the grade 5W30 SM. I am easily able to procure 3.5 litres of semi-synthetic 5W30 SN+ engine oil at prices less than INR 1k from branded dealerships. And obviously, SN+ is better than SM but similar to ACEA's A3/B4 grades.

Originally Posted by hserus

I agree with others here who point out your filter pore size will change and fine dust just can’t be removed however much you spray high pressure air or vacuum it.

And that is why I never recommend extending the use of the air filters for too long beyond the service intervals. However, with regular cleaning, using the air filters for some time beyond the recommended service interval should be perfectly fine. This is because different areas do not have the same amount of dust at all times.

Thank you very much for your kind suggestions

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

Do you know how cheap maintaining a Creta can be ?

Thank you for reading. Wish you all happy and safe drives ahead

I believe different types of filters, their life, reusability and replacement have been discussed to death by now in this thread before I post this reply. Few points came to my mind apart from those.

1. I wonder how you can be so confident in the result of a visual dipstick testing to determine engine oil condition. I don't think without a proper UOA (used oil analysis) or at least, a subjective blotting paper test, it's impossible to comment on that especially, for a petrol engine where soot formation is lesser than diesel ones, and the not-so-drastic change of engine oil colour may be quite deceptive sometimes.

While you go for detailed testing with brake oil moisture content detector and refractometer for coolant what prevents you to test the engine oil also more objectively?

2. DOT 3 brake fluid in 2021 instead of DOT 4 really!? As you voiced for not wasting resources (I read it cost optimization) how much is the price difference between DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluid? AFAIK, Hyundai also recommends DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid for Creta. Now given the depth of automotive knowledge you showcased through your posts, I must assume that the basic difference between these two fluid grades is very much known to you. DOT 4 inherently attracts lesser moisture content and lasts longer. So, isn't it counter-productive to use DOT 3 fluid followed by so much objective testing for moisture content determination to save a few bucks? I believe the cumulative extra cost of DOT 4 fluid as on date must be less than the device you purchased for moisture content testing!

3. Did you check the TDS of the distilled water you use to top-up your battery with? I came across water bottles being sold as ‘distilled’ tag in market with the price you mentioned basically containing RO water you get through the water purifier in your home or your Creta (TDS ranging from 35 to 80), which is quite detrimental for the battery health. Perfect distilled-water should have exact 0 TDS value.

4. Your philosophy emphasizes on DIY methods. You can do wheel alignment at home using the age-old parallel- thread method too! This can save you a few bucks unless you care too much for stringent accuracy of the toe in-out values of the front wheels. Even most of the wheel alignment and balancing shops don’t have dynamic balancers; so you only get single plane balancing there.

Now, the final enquiry: I presume you use jack stands and hydraulic jacks or two/four post lift for some of the DIY works on your car. If yes, please share the details.