K&N Cold air induction system RC-5052AB

1self · 7th November 2007, 02:22

Jassi,

MAS & MAP are the same. Hyundai cars come with their MAP chips INSIDE the IM (Intake manifold). They use the IM manifold vaccum to draw the air at all throttle positions except at WOT (wide open throttle). MAF is a VERY much more advanced system coming in the new Verna with VTVT.

Now, as i can see from the pics in the engine bay, you will need a larger section of piping (as in length) for the MAP. The attachments for the pipe is already in the box that came with filter....just use it following the instructions i gave you....you will be fine.

jassi · 7th November 2007, 06:25

ya 1self it seems to make sense that the pipe was measuring air flow across the filter - my only problem if i were to connect it to the K&N back is the diameter of this pipe - its huge

and the K&N back side hole is like a screw hole. In addition to the length of piping I will also need some kinda large pipe to small K&n hole adaptor. THe only thing in the K&N pack is plugs and 2 small screw hole sized adapters which can go in that K&n hole but not in this maf pipe, which is like 10 times bigger in diameter.
If this is needed I will go and screw car shringar for leaving it like this

hopefully in the interim as said by hyundai guy driving the car isn't causing any damage!!

1self · 7th November 2007, 10:44

Jassi,

You are practically driving without a filter...you are getting unfiltered air into the IM (& therefore to the engine) without a filter (through the MAP piping). DO NOT DRIVE LIKE THIS....YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR ENGINE. Get a smaller dia pipe which is longer...OR you could use threadlock (teflon tape) to increase the diameter of the attachment on the filter.

rohan_fonseca · 7th November 2007, 15:47

Yup some jugaad will have to be used to do the connections. Otherwise your car will be taking in unfiltered air.

GSHA · 7th November 2007, 16:26

jassi... Think of it this way: Whatever it be (MAP/MAS connection / Emission control circuit / resonator / anything), it was designed to be connected to a fresh filtered air circuit. Leaving it open is not a good idea. While the debate may be on what would go wrong first (based on what the function of this tube actually is), something is bound to go wrong, sooner or later.

Now, technically, given the tube is bigger than a sensor connection provision on the K&N assembly, it is more likely to be the emission control device. Best to set it right asap.

rohan_fonseca · 7th November 2007, 17:32

PCV pipe one is connected to crankcase and the other to the air intake/throttle body. If the the pipe were disconnected due to the air filter install one end would still be connected to the crankcase and the other would be dangling free.
In this case the pipe seems to still be connected to the throttle body with the other end free. Also when the pipe is blocked the engine goes off. Such would not be the case with the PCV pipe. So the little black pipe does seem like it leads to the MAP sensor.
That’s my take on it.

rohan_fonseca · 9th November 2007, 23:37

Jassi how are things coming up?

jassi · 10th November 2007, 15:35

hey rohan - im in pune for a small diwali vacation - hyundai service station out here seems to be closed - looks like monday when i get back will verify from bangy hyundai n then get it rwctified accordingly either from k&n guy or hyundai itself :-)

jassi · 10th November 2007, 15:54

aza dude i just saw in ur profile a pic of ur very cold air intake :-) where is the pipe (which is in question in my setup) connected in your setup. seems like it is connected to some red pipe n going somewhere - can u please check and let me know!!

PatienceWins · 10th November 2007, 22:59

Hi Jassi,

I hope you did not drive your car to Pune with the problem. Dude, keep us posted. All the Best!!

aZa · 11th November 2007, 00:26

Jassi thats the old setup yes it was connected to a red pvc going into the chrome pipe!! i've changed the piping now and the opening is right where the stock black pipe ends.

I'll get u some pics, couldn't get them yet cause of diwali

rohan_fonseca · 12th November 2007, 15:01

Jassi check out faithless' garage http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indiancarpicture-555.html . Should clear out your doubts.

im_srini · 12th November 2007, 20:42

Hi guys, I had the same issue in my Alto. In it's stock form, a similar "mystery" pipe connected the engine & the intake. This pipe doesn't seem to be taking in filtered air, because in Jassi's picture of the stock intake, the pipe in question seems to be upstream of the filter element. If this pipe is designed for taking in filtered air, one would expect to see it attached on the other side of the filter element isn't it ? I think this pipe is just part of the positive crankcase ventilation system.

Anyway, when I switched to a cold air intake, the intake did not have an attachment point for this "pipe". My "tuner" put a breather filter (I think they're also called vent filters) at the end of this pipe & zip-tied it in place ! I guess it is important to not have this pipe dangling since I was told that these tiny filters also act as flame barriers, preventing engine backfires from igniting crankcase blow-by gases ! Can post pictures if anybody's interested...

rohan_fonseca · 13th November 2007, 01:48

im_srini in your case pcv pipe is connected to crankcase. In jassi's case it is not. The pipe is connected to throttle body and the the other which was connected to the intake piping is dangling free at the moment.

jassi · 13th November 2007, 04:32

guys - i got back from pune today and talked to hyundai guy who wasn't very clear but did seem to indicate that the pipe is an intake for fresh air (so definitely not an outlet). Also went to K&n guy and he agreed he should fix the pipe to filtered side of K&n (like 1self said) and will do it morrow.

Unfortunately my house was robbed while i was away and I have lost some major electronics and stuff (1.5 lacs). So right now concentrating on getting police to do their job, have lost all hope though of recovering stuff with our useless police

my time seems to be bad - must get car sorted out asap atleast!!

will keep you guys posted on the air intake

-j

7th November 2007, 02:22	#31
1self BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 629 Thanked: 335 Times View My Garage	Jassi, MAS & MAP are the same. Hyundai cars come with their MAP chips INSIDE the IM (Intake manifold). They use the IM manifold vaccum to draw the air at all throttle positions except at WOT (wide open throttle). MAF is a VERY much more advanced system coming in the new Verna with VTVT. Now, as i can see from the pics in the engine bay, you will need a larger section of piping (as in length) for the MAP. The attachments for the pipe is already in the box that came with filter....just use it following the instructions i gave you....you will be fine.
	() Thanks

7th November 2007, 06:25	#32
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	ya 1self it seems to make sense that the pipe was measuring air flow across the filter - my only problem if i were to connect it to the K&N back is the diameter of this pipe - its huge and the K&N back side hole is like a screw hole. In addition to the length of piping I will also need some kinda large pipe to small K&n hole adaptor. THe only thing in the K&N pack is plugs and 2 small screw hole sized adapters which can go in that K&n hole but not in this maf pipe, which is like 10 times bigger in diameter. If this is needed I will go and screw car shringar for leaving it like this hopefully in the interim as said by hyundai guy driving the car isn't causing any damage!!
	() Thanks

7th November 2007, 10:44	#33
1self BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 629 Thanked: 335 Times View My Garage	Jassi, You are practically driving without a filter...you are getting unfiltered air into the IM (& therefore to the engine) without a filter (through the MAP piping). DO NOT DRIVE LIKE THIS....YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR ENGINE. Get a smaller dia pipe which is longer...OR you could use threadlock (teflon tape) to increase the diameter of the attachment on the filter.
	() Thanks

7th November 2007, 15:47	#34
rohan_fonseca BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Panaji Posts: 984 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	Yup some jugaad will have to be used to do the connections. Otherwise your car will be taking in unfiltered air.
	() Thanks

7th November 2007, 16:26	#35
GSHA BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 107 Thanked: Once	jassi... Think of it this way: Whatever it be (MAP/MAS connection / Emission control circuit / resonator / anything), it was designed to be connected to a fresh filtered air circuit. Leaving it open is not a good idea. While the debate may be on what would go wrong first (based on what the function of this tube actually is), something is bound to go wrong, sooner or later. Now, technically, given the tube is bigger than a sensor connection provision on the K&N assembly, it is more likely to be the emission control device. Best to set it right asap.
	() Thanks

7th November 2007, 17:32	#36
rohan_fonseca BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Panaji Posts: 984 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	PCV pipe one is connected to crankcase and the other to the air intake/throttle body. If the the pipe were disconnected due to the air filter install one end would still be connected to the crankcase and the other would be dangling free. In this case the pipe seems to still be connected to the throttle body with the other end free. Also when the pipe is blocked the engine goes off. Such would not be the case with the PCV pipe. So the little black pipe does seem like it leads to the MAP sensor. That’s my take on it. Last edited by rohan_fonseca : 7th November 2007 at 17:33.
	() Thanks

9th November 2007, 23:37	#37
rohan_fonseca BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Panaji Posts: 984 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	Jassi how are things coming up?
	() Thanks

10th November 2007, 15:35	#38
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	hey rohan - im in pune for a small diwali vacation - hyundai service station out here seems to be closed - looks like monday when i get back will verify from bangy hyundai n then get it rwctified accordingly either from k&n guy or hyundai itself :-)
	() Thanks

10th November 2007, 15:54	#39
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	aza - wheres the pipe connected in your santro aza dude i just saw in ur profile a pic of ur very cold air intake :-) where is the pipe (which is in question in my setup) connected in your setup. seems like it is connected to some red pipe n going somewhere - can u please check and let me know!!
	() Thanks

10th November 2007, 22:59	#40
PatienceWins Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 986 Times View My Garage	Hi Jassi, I hope you did not drive your car to Pune with the problem. Dude, keep us posted. All the Best!!
	() Thanks

11th November 2007, 00:26	#41
aZa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Noida / Delhi Posts: 1,595 Thanked: 25 Times View My Garage	Jassi thats the old setup yes it was connected to a red pvc going into the chrome pipe!! i've changed the piping now and the opening is right where the stock black pipe ends. I'll get u some pics, couldn't get them yet cause of diwali
	() Thanks

12th November 2007, 15:01	#42
rohan_fonseca BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Panaji Posts: 984 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	Jassi check out faithless' garage http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indiancarpicture-555.html . Should clear out your doubts.
	() Thanks

12th November 2007, 20:42	#43
im_srini BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland Posts: 1,010 Thanked: 491 Times View My Garage	Hi guys, I had the same issue in my Alto. In it's stock form, a similar "mystery" pipe connected the engine & the intake. This pipe doesn't seem to be taking in filtered air, because in Jassi's picture of the stock intake, the pipe in question seems to be upstream of the filter element. If this pipe is designed for taking in filtered air, one would expect to see it attached on the other side of the filter element isn't it ? I think this pipe is just part of the positive crankcase ventilation system. Anyway, when I switched to a cold air intake, the intake did not have an attachment point for this "pipe". My "tuner" put a breather filter (I think they're also called vent filters) at the end of this pipe & zip-tied it in place ! I guess it is important to not have this pipe dangling since I was told that these tiny filters also act as flame barriers, preventing engine backfires from igniting crankcase blow-by gases ! Can post pictures if anybody's interested... Last edited by im_srini : 12th November 2007 at 20:45.
	() Thanks

13th November 2007, 01:48	#44
rohan_fonseca BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Panaji Posts: 984 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	im_srini in your case pcv pipe is connected to crankcase. In jassi's case it is not. The pipe is connected to throttle body and the the other which was connected to the intake piping is dangling free at the moment.
	() Thanks

13th November 2007, 04:32	#45
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	guys - i got back from pune today and talked to hyundai guy who wasn't very clear but did seem to indicate that the pipe is an intake for fresh air (so definitely not an outlet). Also went to K&n guy and he agreed he should fix the pipe to filtered side of K&n (like 1self said) and will do it morrow. Unfortunately my house was robbed while i was away and I have lost some major electronics and stuff (1.5 lacs). So right now concentrating on getting police to do their job, have lost all hope though of recovering stuff with our useless police my time seems to be bad - must get car sorted out asap atleast!! will keep you guys posted on the air intake -j
	() Thanks