Team-BHP - Fiat Palio MJD - Known Problems

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijaycool (Post 3147021)

The sign of engine going lower rev while braking with clutch engaged is due to "Partial clutch release". Either your clutch master/slave cylinder is kaput OR your car's clutch cover assembly not disengaging the clutch fully. So as the wheel speed gets slower and slower its stops the engine from revving.

I had also thought so. But the RPM fluctuation and engine shuddering happens even if I simply press the clutch when the car is on the move. I had asked KHT Motors to check both the clutch cylinders when they replaced the clutch about 5,000 KM ago, when the car had done about 82000 KM (that's when the RPM problem had just started, and I had assumed that it was because of worn out clutch). They replaced the slave cylinder. Since master cylinder was replaced at about 70,000 KM, they said it is working fine.

Although KHT Motors' technicians claim that there is no leakage in either cylinders, I suspect that they are not functioning correctly. Internally, I think the piston in one of the cylinders does not slide in or out fully.

Any pointers on how I can get that verified?

Rohan
Plus one more point. The rpm fluctuation is more evident when the A/c is running. I guess we had discussed the same sometime back.
Venkatesh had checked this problem and informed me that every Palio MJD that he has serviced has the same issue. he did something in the engine bay and the problem disappeared for a couple of thousand km's but, has re-surfaced again.
He refuses to tell me the source or the solution on the fear that I will share the same on Team Bhp and so he will loose his customers.
Anyways, will persuade him to show me the root cause on my next visit.
cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohanjf (Post 3148156)

If thats the case then it will be the clutch switch placed under the clutch pedal. I believe there are 2 switches , one for sensing clutch engage and another for clutch release. If any of the switch malfunctions then you might have revv drop or engine switch off. Remeber Figo engine turning off while pressing clutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by pareshraheja (Post 3148498)

Rohan
Venkatesh had checked this problem and informed me that every Palio MJD that he has serviced has the same issue. he did something in the engine bay and the problem disappeared for a couple of thousand km's but, has re-surfaced again.
He refuses to tell me the source or the solution on the fear that I will share the same on Team Bhp and so he will loose his customers.
Anyways, will persuade him to show me the root cause on my next visit.
cheers

Forgot to multi quote. To be frank this is actually unethical for a mechanic not telling about the source and the cure. I never believe if such mechs say he has done a big work on the car and charge a bomb for it. The truth would be he would have done 1/4 of the work he said.

Thanks to Paresh, I spoke to Venkatesh (who runs a workshop near Sajjan Rao circle on JC road). He said he will have a look at the problem. So I will go visit him on Saturday or Sunday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antorquetik (Post 3140225)

My Palio's engine cover has broken loose from one of the holding stems.
The stem is broken and the broken part of the stem is stuck in the engine block.

Did anyone face this problem?

Same problem in my car. But the technician at the KHT Motors service centre said it is not a problem to leave the car that way, because replacing the cover will cost some money, and is not needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antorquetik (Post 3143494)

One more update for all.

Just found out , we can replace only the ball joint on lower control arm instead of replacing the entire LCA if the LCA is intact and it is only the ball joint which has worn out.

I found the ball joint is available with 99rpm for 500 change INR and it is from GuttMann.

I have to fix both the lower arms (KHT Motors says the left one is weak, and my regular wheel alignment guy says the right one is weak). I had asked at KHT and they had said it costs about 2500 Rs per arm, and then labour cost.

But this Venkatesh said he can replace just the ball joint. However, he said original parts are not available, and he can fix only local ones. He said it costs 1000 Rs per ball joint, plus labour. Now that's a little expensive, isn't it? I am thinking, I might as well shell out a little extra and get original spares from KHT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohanjf (Post 3149479)

Thanks to Paresh, I spoke to Venkatesh (who runs a workshop near Sajjan Rao circle on JC road). He said he will have a look at the problem. So I will go visit him on Saturday or Sunday.

Same problem in my car. But the technician at the KHT Motors service centre said it is not a problem to leave the car that way, because replacing the cover will cost some money, and is not needed.

I have to fix both the lower arms (KHT Motors says the left one is weak, and my regular wheel alignment guy says the right one is weak). I had asked at KHT and they had said it costs about 2500 Rs per arm, and then labour cost.

But this Venkatesh said he can replace just the ball joint. However, he said original parts are not available, and he can fix only local ones. He said it costs 1000 Rs per ball joint, plus labour. Now that's a little expensive, isn't it? I am thinking, I might as well shell out a little extra and get original spares from KHT.

I wanted to change the ball joints on my lower control arms.I bought gutmann ball joints for 380 INR each but did not like the quality.Fiat ones are available with 99rpm for 1289 INR.

Use the screw driver technique to find out a faulty LCA.else you will know while driving.the tell tale is when you apply brakes very hard, the car will pull to the side which has worn out LCA bush or a free ball joint.

Palio mjd has riveted ball joints.If you replace the ball joints you will have to break the rivets and fasten the ball joints by bolts onto LCA.

Long story short - just go in for original fiat LCA after your car starts pulling too much when you apply brakes.

Hi all

I want someone to throw some light on below listed problems.

1) broken engine cover and the supporting finger which holds the engine cover on to engine block. I bought a indica vista cover - It is the same multijet cover for 1589 INR.Venkatesh helped me remove the quadrajet etched on the cover.cover fits perfectly.
Problem is the broken supporting finger's neck still stuck in the engine block. Venkatesh says the car has to be taken to some person who can machine it out.right now i did a stop gap arrangement and put Mseal.

Finger is also available as a child part with tata for 66 INR. same is 600 change with Fiat ;)

2) car was floating on highways at speeds above 120kmph .
FIX - changed the strut mounts. bought Fiat strut mounts from 99rpm for 1020 INR each, labour - 800 INR.
Problem - I had a 'CREAK' noise from front suspension as the car would bounce over a speed hump while the strut flexes and compresses.Venkatesh said after strut R&R while changing strut mounts this problem will get solved. Issue still persists. Any solution?

3) changed the clutch cover assembly with release bearing.Clutch with Fiat is for 6900 INR change. 99rpm has it for 5000 INR change. labour with venkatesh I paid a bomb 2800 INR. I had no option, Fiat is over booked for months and bad experience with RDC fiat chennai makes me stay away from Fiat Scs. time is a luxury i did not have, had to get the clutch done in half a days time.Clutch is as soft as cotton candy ( in relation to what it was :D).
Can we surface the fly wheel? has anyone done that?
Why I am asking this is - after installing a new clutch very faint shudder will persist due to slight score marks on fly wheel. If we surface the flywheel, clutch will be as new as factory.Ours is not a dual mass(no balancing issues) so I'm sure it can be re-surfaced.

4) Most of you who are facing the rear tail-gate rattle.This legendary rattle is not from the roof mounted tail lamp.I did a trial, I removed my tail lamp and ran the car for some time and rattle existed. Finally found out this is from the rear glass.If i keep the glass pressed hard there wont be any rattle. the moment i unload the glass the rattling starts again.
this rattle has a very characteristic sound it is like two very thin metal plates hitting each other in very short pulses. I am thinking if i should remove the glass and get it installed again.
anyone experiencing this rattle please check it out and share back.

5) changed all oils and filters at 53k.did an engine flush. Used bardahl engine flush and filled new E-oil. there has been significant reduction in noise and engine feels more rev happy.hits the sweet spot faster.
Had a problem of car lugging and jolting at high gear low rpm of like 4th gear pulling from 1k rpm.this still persists.Any suggestions? I am thinking of an engine de-carb using motorvac or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antorquetik (Post 3132254)

27th may evening on the way from bangalore to chennai - faced heavy storm showers.
What made it bad was the failure of wiper function.
Wiper motor is fine but int function and sweep function is not working,mid and high speed is working. After switching off the wiper, it stops mid-way on the windscreen.

What am I looking at, a combination switch failure or a relay( if any present?) failure?

Any suggestions and easy fixes?

Goodness! Mine and my colleagues 2010 Palios are showing up with same symptoms since 2 weeks. Issue is prominent when there is continuous rain/car was exposed to lot of rain overnight.

When issue occurs, my speed low speed becomes intermediate, intermediate being same and high speed being same. When turned off, it doesnt come to the stock resting position. Last weekend I had been to Goa. Issue lasted all 4 days (yes it was raining pretty consistently). I thought I will get it to FASS notice and next day, it works perfectly fine!

I am no mug with auto-mobiles/electronics. But I am guessing when it rains consistently, somewiper motor wiring or plugs are getting a bit flooded? What could be wrong? My car still has extended warranty, should I somehow convince (since I dont know when it will re-occur) to replace?

Same to same is happening on collegues SDX, but has happened on different instances under similar conditions.

Karthik, I think the wiper problem is yet another of those manufacturing defects that did not come out during testing (Probably because the test mules were not driven in full rains for long). My Palio SDX has been facing the problem since the time it is 2 years old (now it is 5 years old). Once the guys at KHT Motors tried to figure out the problem by spraying water from a hose on the windshield for a good ten minutes. But the problem never occured.

However, when I drive in rains, it keep occuring once in a while. I am not sure if there is a solution for this. Even if we replace the whole of the wiper assembly, the new wiper assembly will have the same design as the old one, hence the same flaw. So I have left it like that, since it doesn't rain much in Bangalore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohanjf (Post 3149479)

Original ball joints are available with 99 rpm. you should see how bad is your lower control arm. if it is the ball joints that have become free you could change only those else the complete LCA.

Do not run your engine with a broken cover mount. youe engine cover will eventually crack from the other stem which is the only one holding it and you will end up buying a new cover.

new cover will cost 4000 INR plus with fiat.It happened with me but luckily the indica vista cover is same as multi jet. it just costs 1395 INR also you could get a pair of stems costing 66 rupees each with tata and change them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkykar (Post 3218974)

Yes it is a very irritating problem.you see Fiats are so advanced they run auto diagnostic and the problem gets fixed.:D

I have been trying to find the root cause. no success yet.
Incidentally I had a rust spot on the fire wall just above the brake booster, I asked my mechanna to fix it and check if he could find anything unusual causing wiper malfunction. He did not find anything.

Its actually simple mechanism. The wiper assembly has worm gear attached to a plastic spur gear which is connected to the crank like assembly. The disc has three circular copper strips. There is a split in one of the strip, the copper strip is pressed against three finger type copper connectors which powers the motor through relay. When you turn on the wiper the relay gets energized and keep engergized so the motor runs. when you turn off the wiper stalk the relays are still energized till it pass the plastic gap which doesnt offer conductivity. This is the point where the relay get de-energized and this is the point of resting. The shaft has bimetal bronze bushing. Due to age and corrosion the shaft begins to wobble, when used continuously the fingers get hot due to the continuous current passage and due to wobble it looses contact. Hence when you turn off the wiper it stops in the same position due to the non contact of the return finger with the disc. The solution is to pull of the assembly and stretch the fingers to press firmly against the disc. This will cure for some more years or better replace with spring type material so there will be pressure always on the plate.
I couldnt able to explain properly without pics:
you can check here. After the overhaul I took the car to Dindigul during Thane strom wiper worked at full speed for 5 hrs and moderate speed for 2 more hours. i didnt face any issues.
http://myfiatworld.com/forum/f20/fro...y-fix-371.html

Continuing with the RPM fluctuation problem, I recently have tested my car by letting it coast on neutral gear for about 2 KMs at a stretch (yes, I do get that opportunity near my house).

If I switch to neutral gear when the car is moving and RPM is fluctuating, it continues to fluctuate for a while and then stops. But for the next 2-3 minutes, there is no problem. If I switch to neutral when RPM is not fluctuating, then there is no fluctuation at all!

Can CV joints cause this problem?

I recently changed the suspension lower arms because of the rattling sound. But the problem has not gone away. Could CV joints be the problem? If I replace both, how much do the spares cost?

Now my car is approaching 94,000 KMs. So far the only suspension components replaced are the lower arms and mounting pads, about 5000 KMs ago.

Hi Rohan,

Have got some feedback on the rpm fluctuation problem from a few PUG members.

They say it is due to the malfunction of the brake switch. In my case I have noticed that whenever I slow the car and press the clutch there is sudden fluctuation in the rpm as though the engine is about to stall.

The reasoning is due to malfunction of the brake switch which, gets a wrong message from the ECU. Remedy is to clean this switch.

Well this is only hear say. have given my MJD to Venkatesh for a service this morning and asked to him to have a check. Hopefully will be able to revert with a thorough solution by tomorrow.

Cheers