[Captain Slow]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

After the recent repairs, now I am driving the car regularly. I have done about 400 KMs so far. Today morning, I noticed that temperature needle was slightly above half way mark, after driving 15 KMs. I pulled over and switched the engine off when I noticed steam coming out of the right side of the bonnet.

Also, is there any way to find out if engine oil level is low?

Looks like the problem isn't solved yet.
Why did the head gasket replacement cost you Rs 40,000?
What are the exact parts replaced? The MJD is a well build engine and parts do not go bad so easily.

Were the Intake and Exhaust Gaskets also replaced ?
And yes Sankar makes a very valid point - cooler assembly.

Check the Engine Dipstick - To check oil levels.

Get the car towed don't drive it. Driving the car in this condition can cause further problems.

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Were you sure that the headgasket had indeed blown when you took your car in for repairs? It may have been the oil cooler from the beginning. In 1.3 multijets with oil cooler when oil is found in coolant reservoir first thing to check is oil filter/cooler assembly.

I am not :(
I asked the mechanic today, and he said he had replaced the oil cooler assembly too.

Originally Posted by Sankar

To check the oil level use the dipstick. The level should be between high and low.

Thanks! I was so tensed that this didn't occur to me!
Check out the level on dipstick:




There is oil on the sides of the dipstick, but the centre part is dry. I think the sump is dry!

What the mechanic suggests is that, fill 2 litres of 15W40 oil and drive it. Since the drive is 13 KMs long, I think it is cheaper than getting the car towed (especially because there is no other leak). What do you think?

Also, does it make sense to buy some coolant and fill it now? Or, do I manage with just water?

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

What are the exact parts replaced?

I will get the list from the mechanic today.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

I am not :(
I asked the mechanic today, and he said he had replaced the oil cooler assembly too.
...
Thanks! I was so tensed that this didn't occur to me!
Check out the level on dipstick:
Attachment 1331161

Attachment 1331162

There is oil on the sides of the dipstick, but the centre part is dry. I think the sump is dry!

What the mechanic suggests is that, fill 2 litres of 15W40 oil and drive it. Since the drive is 13 KMs long, I think it is cheaper than getting the car towed (especially because there is no other leak). What do you think?

I hope the mechanic has the original parts which were removed from your car. Ask him to show the parts replaced.

The sight of the disptick is worrying. Hope the car is on a level surface and the engine stopped for atleast 10 mins before you checked the level.

Get it towed, get a friend to tow your car with his. Keep the tow length short, keep your car key's in the ON position, watch out for hard brakes and heavy steering. Its easily do able if you are confident. Else get professional tow.

[rohanjf]

Since I couldn't get a professional tow (because the people I contacted, wanted me to wait for minimum 2 hours), I decided to fill engine oil and drive.

I filled 2 litres of engine oil and half a litre of coolant and drove for 8 KMs (until I was out of the city limits). By this time, engine temperature needle was almost at half way mark. Then I parked for 15 minutes, filled coolant again and checked engine oil level. Luckily, oil level hadn't decreased much. So I drove the next 5 KMs to the mechanic.

He said he will check and let me know today.
I forgot to get the list of works he did last time. But I have to go there today (by scooter, to get some things from the car), so I will get it today.

[architect]

Sorry , I am seeing this after a long time, but my question is that is your engine heating up? When an engine heats (due to fan / cooling system issues) engine oil tends to reduce. I lost almost 1.5 litres of engine oil without any leaks whatsoever because my AC heater coil was leaking coolant and that was burning up engine oil.

[rohanjf]

I am back, with a new problem.
After I got the car back for the second time (after getting oil cooler from 99rpm.com), I went on a drive. After covering 70 KMs or so, the engine temperature needle went above the halfway mark. It went down a little after coasting on neutral (at slow speeds, to avoid loss of control) and switching off AC. The needle would go up again when driven with AC on.

I realised that the radiator fan was no longer functioning. Since it was functioning earlier that morning (who can miss that thunderous sound!), I took it back to the same mechanic. He said the thermostat sensor is not working, so the radiator fan is not switching on.

Unfortunately, my car has a 4 pin thermostat sensor. The mechanic checked Swift's. It has 2 pin sensor. Even 99rpm.com shows 2 pin sensor. So I went to KHT Motors service centre. They also showed a 2 pin sensor. Apparently Fiat changed the design from 4 pin sensor (of Tychy made engines) to 2 pin sensor (of Ranjangaon made engines) but retained the same MPN. KHT Motors expressed their helplessness in procuring the 4 pin sensor. Luckily, I knew their manager personally, so he urged his people to find a way out. Finally they found that a similar 4 pin sensor comes in Punto. Now they have ordered it, and I am supposed to get it in 10 days.

Here is a picture of that sensor:

Originally Posted by architect

Sorry , I am seeing this after a long time, but my question is that is your engine heating up? When an engine heats (due to fan / cooling system issues) engine oil tends to reduce.

I had forgotten to mention this earlier. There was a problem with my AC too. In fact, AC fixing plus head gasket replacement were the first works on the car.

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Looks like the problem isn't solved yet.
Why did the head gasket replacement cost you Rs 40,000?
What are the exact parts replaced?

Below is the list of parts. AC work took about 20,000 Rs. The bill also shows an additional 4000 Rs, but that's body work.

Originally Posted by Sankar

I hope the mechanic has the original parts which were removed from your car. Ask him to show the parts replaced.

Yes, I saw the parts.

[architect]

Sorry to hear the predicament, Rohan, but this habit of car makers making 'minor' changes is very irritating. e.g. Punto and Palio have similar engines but many parts like oil filter and diesel filter are different, creating problems for owners. But yes, I was about to suggest that there is always jugaad to help you.

[Ashok Naik]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

I am back, with a new problem.
After I got the car back for the second time (after getting oil cooler from 99rpm.com), I went on a drive. After covering 70 KMs or so, the engine temperature needle went above the halfway mark. It went down a little after coasting on neutral (at slow speeds, to avoid loss of control) and switching off AC. The needle would go up again when driven with AC on.

I realised that the radiator fan was no longer functioning. Since it was functioning earlier that morning (who can miss that thunderous sound!), I took it back to the same mechanic. He said the thermostat sensor is not working, so the radiator fan is not switching on.

Unfortunately, my car has a 4 pin thermostat sensor. The mechanic checked Swift's. It has 2 pin sensor. Even 99rpm.com shows 2 pin sensor. So I went to KHT Motors service centre. They also showed a 2 pin sensor. Apparently Fiat changed the design from 4 pin sensor (of Tychy made engines) to 2 pin sensor (of Ranjangaon made engines) but retained the same MPN. KHT Motors expressed their helplessness in procuring the 4 pin sensor. Luckily, I knew their manager personally, so he urged his people to find a way out. Finally they found that a similar 4 pin sensor comes in Punto. Now they have ordered it, and I am supposed to get it in 10 days.

Here is a picture of that sensor:
Attachment 1346133



I had forgotten to mention this earlier. There was a problem with my AC too. In fact, AC fixing plus head gasket replacement were the first works on the car.



Below is the list of parts. AC work took about 20,000 Rs. The bill also shows an additional 4000 Rs, but that's body work.
Attachment 1346132


Yes, I saw the parts.

Hello Mr. Rohanjf,
Felt bad because I am a member of the Fiat-fan club.
1. By the way on the AC repair bill, what are the 3rd, 4th and 5th components? Also the last component.
2. Also, why is the coolant billed along with the AC repair works?
3. AC cooling coil costs Rs. 5000Palio parts are very, very costly.
4. Head gasket replacement is a costly deal and I think the bill is fair for the head gasket works. But it must be done properly with utmost care.
5. The oil cooler was a very utilitarian component but notorious for engine oil-coolant contamination. Even the earlier swift diesels had this, but it was later discontinued.

Regards,
Ashok.

[rohanjf]

Since 10 days were up after KHT Fiat service centre ordered the 4 pin thermostat sensor, I checked with them. I was disappointed to hear that they have received the 2 pin sensor. He has asked me to give him a call in a few days.

Meanwhile, a colleague of mine is going check at Aadya Fiat, as he lives nearby. I don't have much hope though. I have asked another colleague to check in London, as he is there. I believe the possibility of finding this part is higher in London (considering that not only Fiat, but also Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Opel, Suzuki, Ford and Chevrolet make use of this engine).

KHT Fiat do have that sensor in stock, but it is assembled into a bigger part. It is so tightly fitted (in the factory) that the mechanics were unable to unwind it out of that part. If I am not able to get the sensor from Aadya or from UK by this weekend, I am thinking of buying that whole part for ~1500 Rs and breaking it up to extract the thermostat sensor. Hopefully, the new sensor doesn't damaged in the process!

[rohanjf]

As my manager lives near Aadya Fiat service centre in Bangalore, I gave him the part and asked him to check. But Aadya service personnel's attitude was really annoying. Initially they refused to sell it, saying they don't do over-the-counter sales and I should get the car towed. When I asked him if it is worth spending 10,000 Rs for towing for a part that costs 500 Rs, the guy spoke to his boss. Then they said they cannot sell only the sensor, and I have to buy the whole assembly for 2800 Rs. Not only that, I should also pay for labour even though I am not getting the labour done there. This was absurd!


Fortunately today, I tried searching in 99rpm.com with various search terms and finally stumbled upon this:
http://www.99rpm.com/fiat/coolant-te...-59116563.html

Here is its picture:


I saw the description:
Fiat Genuine Coolant Temperature sensor for Fiat Palio, Siena, palio Stile and Adventure with 1.6 petrol or 1.9 diesel engines. Type: 4 Pins

4 pins, and it looks exactly like the old part from my car. Palio Stile is mentioned in the description too! Unfortunately, it is not listed under the Thermostat parts. I wish I had found it earlier.

I have ordered it. Now keeping my fingers crossed!
I hope my car will be trouble-free again, the way it was for 6 years and 3 months.

[madhav]

Folks, my 7 yr old Palio MJD with 80k on the odo showed some abnormal behavior this evening when I started the car from my office. The car started as usual in one crank and everything looked OK. I usually give the car 20 secs to settle before driving. After that i drove the car for about 10 mins and I saw the Check engine light on. The car was behaving perfectly fine, so I pulled over and stopped the car. Gave it 30 seconds and started again and she did start in one crank without any fuss. This time I noticed the ignition coil light went off as usual but after the car started it blinked about 6-7 times and disappeared and then Check engine light came on. This stays on throughout but as I said the car behaves as usual. I presume this is my ignition coil giving up and the ECU has registered an error code? Also the way the car starts does not show any trouble signs. Any advice on what I'm facing?

[architect]

Originally Posted by madhav

Folks, my 7 yr old Palio MJD with 80k on the odo showed some abnormal behavior this evening when I started the car from my office. The car started as usual in one crank and everything looked OK. I usually give the car 20 secs to settle before driving. After that i drove the car for about 10 mins and I saw the Check engine light on. The car was behaving perfectly fine, so I pulled over and stopped the car. Gave it 30 seconds and started again and she did start in one crank without any fuss. This time I noticed the ignition coil light went off as usual but after the car started it blinked about 6-7 times and disappeared and then Check engine light came on. This stays on throughout but as I said the car behaves as usual. I presume this is my ignition coil giving up and the ECU has registered an error code? Also the way the car starts does not show any trouble signs. Any advice on what I'm facing?

Although your query is nearly two weeks old now, the answer is that your glow plug (one or more) has gone. A simple replacement job. I have replaced two, both times the symptoms were exactly the same.

[madhav]

Architect, thanks for your advice. You are right about the problem.

I had taken the car the very next day to Vecto and they checked and replaced one of the glow plugs. The issue disappeared immediately. I did't update the forum as I was travelling and did not have the time to do so.

A new problem has cropped up now. After the glow plug change, I had traveled to Chennai in the Palio and given the hot and humid weather, the AC was on throughout at blower speed 3. I was in Chennai for four days and on my way back I noticed that my entire floorboard carpet was soaking wet. I guess this was a clogged / disconnected AC drain pipe. I checked it from the passenger side but didn't find any issues there. I'm unable to visually find the spot where the water is dripping on the carpet. The whole car now smells bad and I'm scared of switching the AC on. Have not had the time to take the car to Vecto due to work pressures.

Any DIY solutions for this problem???

[architect]

Originally Posted by madhav

I had taken the car the very next day to Vecto and they checked and replaced one of the glow plugs. The issue disappeared immediately. I did't update the forum as I was travelling and did not have the time to do so.
A new problem has cropped up now. After the glow plug change, I had traveled to Chennai in the Palio and given the hot and humid weather, the AC was on throughout at blower speed 3. I was in Chennai for four days and on my way back I noticed that my entire floorboard carpet was soaking wet. I guess this was a clogged / disconnected AC drain pipe. I checked it from the passenger side but didn't find any issues there. I'm unable to visually find the spot where the water is dripping on the carpet. The whole car now smells bad and I'm scared of switching the AC on. Have not had the time to take the car to Vecto due to work pressures.

Any DIY solutions for this problem???

Sorry for not noticing this, I hardly log in on TBHP nowadays.

1. Check the AC condensate pipe and the floor outlet for blockage. Then check the tray. Blow compressed air back into the tray from the lower end of the pipe. Open the filter if necessary, then open the tray if necessary. For the last one, you have to remove steering and dashboard.

2. Another thing. The drainage from below the windshield (outside the car) tends to get blocked with leaves etc. This drain (under the black plastic shroud around the wiper motor etc, just below the windshield) is drained via an outlet with a rubber sleeve somewhere in the center of the firewall just behind the intake manifold. Put your hand inside from the bonnet side (when engine is cold!) and feel around. You can remove the sleeve and clean the outlet. If that outlet is blocked, water collects with muck inside the firewall and comes out through the dashboard when it rains. It happened to me once and entire left area inside was wet. Lucky that the car didn't rust.

[antorquetik]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

I am back, with a new problem.
After I got the car back for the second time (after getting oil cooler from 99rpm.com), I went on a drive. After covering 70 KMs or so, the engine temperature needle went above the halfway mark. It went down a little after coasting on neutral (at slow speeds, to avoid loss of control) and switching off AC. The needle would go up again when driven with AC on.

I realised that the radiator fan was no longer functioning. Since it was functioning earlier that morning (who can miss that thunderous sound!), I took it back to the same mechanic. He said the thermostat sensor is not working, so the radiator fan is not switching on.

Unfortunately, my car has a 4 pin thermostat sensor. The mechanic checked Swift's. It has 2 pin sensor. Even 99rpm.com shows 2 pin sensor. So I went to KHT Motors service centre. They also showed a 2 pin sensor. Apparently Fiat changed the design from 4 pin sensor (of Tychy made engines) to 2 pin sensor (of Ranjangaon made engines) but retained the same MPN. KHT Motors expressed their helplessness in procuring the 4 pin sensor. Luckily, I knew their manager personally, so he urged his people to find a way out. Finally they found that a similar 4 pin sensor comes in Punto. Now they have ordered it, and I am supposed to get it in 10 days.

Here is a picture of that sensor:
Attachment 1346133



I had forgotten to mention this earlier. There was a problem with my AC too. In fact, AC fixing plus head gasket replacement were the first works on the car.



Below is the list of parts. AC work took about 20,000 Rs. The bill also shows an additional 4000 Rs, but that's body work.
Attachment 1346132


Yes, I saw the parts.

Hi Rohan
I am visiting this thread after a long time.
Seems like your car has been troubling you in a while.
This estimate sheet attached seems like the one from Venkatesh??

If you are Visiting Gowri, I would sincerely advice you not to take your car to the cow shed now.

I got repairs done worth 80-90k with him and he would never tell his customers the correct picture and would only repair like a doctor treating cancer with medicines and not kemo so that patients keep coming back.

I found out that the parts he had used on my car like AC condenser, radiator, intercooler etc. were also re-furbished even though he charged me for new ones.

My car had engine had a compression leak which he never told me about until one fine day my car ran out of oil and i discovered the terminal illness of my engine.

One straight advice, it might sound rude but stop any further investment on the palio. there are good used diesel puntos run ~60k km available for INR 2 lakh, go for one of those and get rid of this white elephant.

after my engine showed signs of complaints like engine oil consumption and compression leak, I decided to install a multijet from rear ended totaled swift. This cow shed guy is not match for factory fit engine. You would be surprised that best of the dealer technicians sometimes cant over haul the engines to factory spec.

If you really wish to retain your car then do an engine swap. it would cost you around 70K including labor.

Do PM me if you wish to seek some details and support.