[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Also, the coolant lines are not bypassed. Can you post a few pics of your 800's throttle body with the bypassing done?

Just get hold of a metal connector, and you can easily connect the two pipes, thus bypassing your throttle body.

This is how I have done it:

And how you have plugged the inlet and outlet of the throttle body?

It's not absolutely necessary to plug it. Zens manufactured after March 2002 had those two outlets exposed. I have seen it in BHPian Saket77's Zen. The throttle body design was later modified and that opening was closed forever.

I have closed it like this. Took a breather hose and plug(which is used in gearbox). Cut two pieces of approx 1.5 inch and plugged ends with two breather plugs. It tightly slides over the open points.









Regards,
Shashi

[scorpian]

The high idle is avoidable by starting the car and idling for about a minute just like diesels. Basically zen prepares you for a your next upgrade if your buying a diesel.. Haha.
Jokes apart, this issue exists and like i said just idle it and it settles to perfect rpm.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

But I face the issue of high idle when I start the car after a long halt. The idle remains high even after the engine heats up and I have to start and stop the engine a few times to get it back to normal. Any idea why?

As others have pointed out, the issue (or glitch) of high idle RPM with a cold engine is common in most early MPFI ZENs. My car also has this problem, if I start her in the morning (or after a long break), & set off directly without idling her, the idle RPM remains really high until I restart her. The idle RPM remains high even after the engine reaches its optimum temperature, the car becomes extremely jerky to drive in such a scenario.

One of the ways to get round this problem is to restart the engine , the other way is to idle her for around 2-3 minutes (depending on the ambient temperature) without any accelerator input. With proper idling (i.e no accelerator pedal input) the engine settles into a perfect idle even without restarting the engine. Strangely my good friend tells me that his car, a 03 Zen Lx doesn't have this issue, but his car is the updated model (Zen was slightly upgraded in early 03). This car got rear seat-belts, HMSL, R-134 gas based AC as standard. Maybe, Maruti fixed this issue in the later models.

Apparently this issue of high idle RPM is also present in MPFI Esteems. Here are two links to threads with similar topic - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...tml#post189939 (Idling Time during Morning Start for MPFI Vehicles) and https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...rpm-issue.html (High idle RPM issue.)

[somspaple]

Nice to see active discussions on Zen. I own a Zen Carbon. Can anybody suggest a good AC mechanic in Bangalore?

I've recently got the AC cleaned from MASS which included removal of dashboard, cleaning - took them 3 days and charged me more than 6K. Car was leaking water inside the cabin and there used to be foul smell because of this. But within a month this has reoccurred :(

Also, looks like compressor bearing needs to be replaced as it sounds noisy whenever AC is running.
Planning to get the entire carpet changed to get rid of the foul smell.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by somspaple

I've recently got the AC cleaned from MASS which included removal of dashboard, cleaning - took them 3 days and charged me more than 6K. Car was leaking water inside the cabin and there used to be foul smell because of this. But within a month this has reoccurred.

Check the source of Water leak, hope the cowl isn't rusted. Also ask them to properly clean the drain pipe of the aircon.

[somspaple]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Check the source of Water leak, hope the cowl isn't rusted. Also ask them to properly clean the drain pipe of the aircon.

They did confirm the leak was due to clogged AC compressor cover. Within a month of usage I see damp carpet and foul smell is back. That is why seeking alternate options for getting this fixed.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by somspaple

Car was leaking water inside the cabin and there used to be foul smell because of this. But within a month this has reoccurred :(

Planning to get the entire carpet changed to get rid of the foul smell.

Originally Posted by somspaple

They did confirm the leak was due to clogged AC compressor cover. Within a month of usage I see damp carpet and foul smell is back. That is why seeking alternate options for getting this fixed.

Hi,

There is a rubber pipe in the passenger foot well area just behind the HVAC unit routing the condensed water to drain outside. Please check if that pipe is not leaking or if it has come out from the drain. If it does, then it will drain the condensed AC water on the carpet resulting in the foul smell and water inside the cabin.
This pipe is located at the right side of the passenger footwell near the firewall.

Check and let us know.

Regards,
Saket

[ashwinprakas]

After all the family functions got over I rode back to TVM today morning and a few hours back got to drive my Zen for roughly 20~30 km's, just for the heck of it and made a few observations;

The AC button is always ON, I never really drive without AC but since I've decided to drive open I turned it off once the motor fired up(didn't notice it before due to dim lighting) and a bit after the AC was turned off the idle RPM dropped to a low idle which I guess means that the high idle issue is not present on my late 2005 Zen.

The earlier mentioned throttle lag was not as dominant as before and I did have a pleasant time with the car effortlessly running up to 80kmph and zipping by congested Kerala traffic. All was well and I stopped the motor for a few mins to get some stuff from a store and on returning the car fired up and idled low as the AC remained off, but while moving off idle I did notice that the rev's were a bit wavery not as noticeable and interfering as before but still wavery.

On returning home I have to climb a sharp incline to park my car and unlike before I did not have to burn a lot of clutch, with the AC off the car effortlessly climbed the incline breaking traction at times on the interlock surface.

Not sure if this is psychological but the car does seem to run noticeably better with the AC off, I've not yet begun working on the car as I'm awaiting consumables and I hope it runs even better after the maintenance rituals have been carried out.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

I have closed it like this. Took a breather hose and plug(which is used in gearbox). Cut two pieces of approx 1.5 inch and plugged ends with two breather plugs. It tightly slides over the open points.

Is that a one way breather hose? If so then for 20/- you could source the Royal Enfield Duckbill breather which is easily available in all automotive stores.

Here's one I used on my ZMA's crank case breather when going for an aftermarket intake setup;



Here's a better picture;



Hope someone finds this useful in the event that they're having a hard time finding the OEM one-way breather setup.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Just get hold of a metal connector, and you can easily connect the two pipes, thus bypassing your throttle body.

This is how I have done it:

It's not absolutely necessary to plug it. Zens manufactured after March 2002 had those two outlets exposed. I have seen it in BHPian Saket77's Zen. The throttle body design was later modified and that opening was closed forever.

I have closed it like this. Took a breather hose and plug(which is used in gearbox). Cut two pieces of approx 1.5 inch and plugged ends with two breather plugs. It tightly slides over the open points.

Regards,
Shashi

Thanks, Shashi. That was very informative.

Originally Posted by scorpian

The high idle is avoidable by starting the car and idling for about a minute just like diesels. Basically zen prepares you for a your next upgrade if your buying a diesel.. Haha.
Jokes apart, this issue exists and like i said just idle it and it settles to perfect rpm.

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

As others have pointed out, the issue (or glitch) of high idle RPM with a cold engine is common in most early MPFI ZENs. My car also has this problem, if I start her in the morning (or after a long break), & set off directly without idling her, the idle RPM remains really high until I restart her. The idle RPM remains high even after the engine reaches its optimum temperature, the car becomes extremely jerky to drive in such a scenario.

One of the ways to get round this problem is to restart the engine , the other way is to idle her for around 2-3 minutes (depending on the ambient temperature) without any accelerator input. With proper idling (i.e no accelerator pedal input) the engine settles into a perfect idle even without restarting the engine. Strangely my good friend tells me that his car, a 03 Zen Lx doesn't have this issue, but his car is the updated model (Zen was slightly upgraded in early 03). This car got rear seat-belts, HMSL, R-134 gas based AC as standard. Maybe, Maruti fixed this issue in the later models.

Apparently this issue of high idle RPM is also present in MPFI Esteems. Here are two links to threads with similar topic - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...tml#post189939 (Idling Time during Morning Start for MPFI Vehicles) and https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...rpm-issue.html (High idle RPM issue.)

You have described the issue very accurately. I guess I will idle when possible or switch off the engine and switch it on after driving it a while. I remember once I drove for 30 km from cold engine start and guess what even at the end of the trip the idle was high! And things became normal after switching it off and on!

[ashwinprakas]

So this weekend I did take the Zen for my weekend home run and covered around 250 km's had filled in fuel for 1500/-, had to do some DIY painting on a gate far away from home so I had left the car idling for a couple of hours with the AC ON as it was fairly hot around noon and the Zen was the only place I could rest as the property in question was barren, I had not used the AC before this, it was just while idling that I had the AC ON, if I recall right I had idled for roughly 3 hours.

On idling for long with the AC ON I did notice that the RPM did audibly waver at times but when I turned the AC OFF and started driving back home all was good in fact even slightly better as the low end seemed to have increased a bit from the extended idling.

I was thinking of driving calmly as the roads were narrow 2 lanes but due to some bullying from villagers on a couple of SUV's I kinda lost it and drove for around 30 km's using only the first 2 gears with a couple of seconds in 3rd on some clear patches taking her up to around 120 kmph, I was not bothered about the speeds as the car felt wonderful to drive only noticed it when the motor was bouncing off the rev limiter.

Overall the car performed well and helped me leave the idiots behind, I guess they kinda felt insulted when a dirty looking Zen wanted to overtake them, due to the earlier terrain being mostly covered in dirt and mud my car was looking as if returning from a mud bath, anyhow the second gear pull to around 80 kmph was enough to safely overtake the bunch without triggering any speed cams, and once ahead I just kept on accelerating hard until I reached the next township as I was curious to see if hard driving would clear up the low end stuttering, my question was answered shortly after I entered town limits as I was stuck in traffic for a few seconds and when the signal turned Green I slotted to 1st and just when I started to move the motor stalled, just like that, no whimpering just bang! stalled!

But she immediately came back to life once I cranked the starter and shortly after I was in my garage, I believe the cause of stalling was due to throttle body/IAC valve as the car was performing spectacularly at highway speeds, screaming to red line and bouncing off the limiter with the least possible hesitation. The Spark Plugs and other consumables are roughly 8k km's old hence I'm not going to doubt them for the time being.

While unloading the painting material from the car I noticed that the lock on the rear passenger door of the car was acting weird, with the lock enabled If I close with the handle pulled out the door doesn't lock, it just comes back open, but if I just enable the lock and close without pulling the handle out the door locks perfectly. Is this normal for the Zen? Because in my F10D Zen Estilo if I close the door without the handle pulled out the door closes but the lock comes up and the door can be opened by pulling the handle out, so for the door to remain locked I would have to close the door with the handle pulled out. The Zen is a bit different from the Estilo even when it comes to the direction of turning key to lock the doors from the outside hence I'm not sure if my Zen is working as intended or not, please share your thoughts on the same.

I'm now back at TVM, and around afternoon I received the text from Bodomo that one of my packages had been delivered at my parents place in Kollam, hopefully the remaining packages and the parts ordered at MGP would be available when I drive to Kollam this upcoming weekend, fingers crossed!

Here's a snap of the car resting at my parents place, she was parked out in the open as mom's car had to be parked inside, as you can imagine, once you're out of the house, you're out for good.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I noticed that the lock on the rear passenger door of the car was acting weird, with the lock enabled If I close with the handle pulled out the door doesn't lock, it just comes back open, but if I just enable the lock and close without pulling the handle out the door locks perfectly. Is this normal for the Zen?

Yes, it is normal. You don't have to pull & hold the door handles while locking the rear doors. It is only for the front doors, probably due to the key lock system and also doubles as a safety mechanism so that you don't lock your keys inside accidentally.

Regards,
Saket

[ashwinprakas]

So Bodomo has sent me a few of the parts, the only part pending arrival is the IAC gasket, I'm yet to hear from MGP, planning to visit them later today.

As for the parts received, with the exception of the Injector Cushions, I installed the rest i.e the Coil and HT Cables.





The throttle cable had roughly 2 km's of excess free-play so had that corrected, no clue why they'd set it up like that.

Now she runs like a new car, I can 'chug-a-lug-a' a steep incline in 5th gear doing a steady 30 kmph with the AC on, before she used to ping even while reversing against an incline with the AC off.

One thing I found odd is that I couldn't find any numbering specifications on the distributor or HT cables, so it would be nice if anyone could tell me the order of the connecting the cables, I feel I've done it right as there was no shuddering or CEL popping up as I managed to change one cable at a time to not mess up. But I'm curious to how it could be done going in blind, is there anything I'd missed?

Had no luck with the timing light, will try some other shops today.

As for the crank marks on the flywheel and belt pulley, could anyone send me pictures as I couldn't spot any on mine, I'm uncertain to whether I'm looking at the right place or not as the workshop manual is getting me confused due to the diagrams looking a bit ambiguous.

Originally Posted by saket77

Yes, it is normal. You don't have to pull & hold the door handles while locking the rear doors. It is only for the front doors, probably due to the key lock system and also doubles as a safety mechanism so that you don't lock your keys inside accidentally.

I honestly had no clue about this, this should definitely go in the Bloopers thread!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

One thing I found odd is that I couldn't find any numbering specifications on the distributor or HT cables, so it would be nice if anyone could tell me the order of the connecting the cables, I feel I've done it right as there was no shuddering or CEL popping up as I managed to change one cable at a time to not mess up. But I'm curious to how it could be done going in blind, is there anything I'd missed?

Yes, just go by the length of the HT cables. Each is the exact length required to attach to the spark plug after running through any cable grips without straining the boot. From the picture you seem to have got it right.

Had no luck with the timing light, will try some other shops today.

As for the crank marks on the flywheel and belt pulley, could anyone send me pictures as I couldn't spot any on mine, I'm uncertain to whether I'm looking at the right place or not as the workshop manual is getting me confused due to the diagrams looking a bit ambiguous.

This may give you an idea what to look for: Adjust timing Remember it varies from engine to engine so will serve only as an indicator.

The exact mark for your car will be mentioned in the workshop manual and it is the only authoritative document you should refer to.

From your post the car seems to be running perfectly which is a good sign. As I said earlier in this thread modern cars even with distributors rarely require a timing adjustment. Don't adjust if it isn't required.

You can borrow a timing light from a mechanic friend. But these tools are getting rare.

Check the rotor in the distributor. The rotor has a metal band/portion on top and it contacts a spring loaded carbon brush (looks like a pin) under the cap. Just check the rotor surface and carbon brush. Make sure they are clean and not pitted or worn out.

PS - Consider asking a mechanic for the location of the timing mark

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Yes, just go by the length of the HT cables. Each is the exact length required to attach to the spark plug after running through any cable grips without straining the boot. From the picture you seem to have got it right.

I was worried about the not so obvious end i.e the distributor end.

This may give you an idea what to look for: Adjust timing Remember it varies from engine to engine so will serve only as an indicator.

The exact mark for your car will be mentioned in the workshop manual and it is the only authoritative document you should refer to.

The procedure in question is setting valve lash.

The workshop manual mentions the procedure in detail and I have no doubts about it, but the only issue is that I'm unable to find the marking mentioned in the workshop manual on my motor and pulley, I guess I might be looking at the wrong angle as I was trying to peek in through the sides with AF box still in place, would get that removed once the new parts arrive.

From your post the car seems to be running perfectly which is a good sign. As I said earlier in this thread modern cars even with distributors rarely require a timing adjustment. Don't adjust if it isn't required.

Would not go about adjusting if not required, would like to inspect it, plus the tool would be a good addition as I intend to keep the car for long and the mechanics in my area are hopeless, same goes for TVM, a fellow F8 enthusiast had a breakdown after installing a half engine block, which if I'm not wrong is due to carelessness as I I've been told that a half engine replacement is supposed to be more reliable alternative.

As for my Zen running reliably, all was good until yesterday evening, when I had taken my mom out and had the AC running all the time, we had parked the car for roughly 4~5 hours as we had gone to watch a movie and on returning the car showed signs of bogging, but not as profound as it was before, which makes we wonder if the issue is due me not idling car for a bit i.e warm up, the F10D Estilo doesn't require this but now I'm coming to think that the G10B Zen requires it, not sure though as the Issue only arises when starting cold with the AC on, confirmed by starting today morning, though the bogging was minimal due to ambient temperatures being on the higher side around 9 am. I guess I would only be able to conclude once spares arrive and I rule out the Throttle Body and IAC as well.

You can borrow a timing light from a mechanic friend. But these tools are getting rare.

Tried and failed, the usual guy claims that he's never had to do a timing adjustment, might be true since the possibility of it going out of what is dim as per this thread and most likely his customers don't cover that many miles or keep cars for longer periods.

I did find a few online but the asking price is absurdly high, since it is not a matter of urgency I will keep hunting till I source a decent piece.

Check the rotor in the distributor. The rotor has a metal band/portion on top and it contacts a spring loaded carbon brush (looks like a pin) under the cap. Just check the rotor surface and carbon brush. Make sure they are clean and not pitted or worn out.

Thanks, would check that, also managed to find the parts on Bodomo;

CAP ASSY


ROTOR ASSY


Shared the link, for my own future reference in case I'd need to have them replaced.

MGP is hopeless as far as sourcing spares go, they said it will take roughly around 2 weeks more, the only reason I don't go ahead with ordering the same parts from Bodomo is due to fear of bad blood as I would need their help in the future for sourcing parts.

PS - Consider asking a mechanic for the location of the timing mark

Now get this, I was asked to look for a cap that had to be removed to access a timing inspection window like on motorcycles and I was relieved as I couldn't spot the marks mentioned as per the instructions provided in the workshop manual(find mark on the crankshaft pulley and aligning it with the corresponding mark on the timing belt cover), but then strangely I couldn't find the same being mentioned anywhere in the workshop manual, my friend even sent me a picture of the same on the F10D motor;



My best guess so far is that the inspection point is different on the G10 and F10, because I couldn't spot the shown cap on my G10.

Almost forgot to mention another concern;

What are the consumables that need to be replaced as far as the fuel tank goes, asking as I've noticed fuel dripping while the car is being filled even when I'm not filling the tank up to the full mark. The fuel bunk attendant said its a normal occurrence for older cars as it is the fuel splashing around in the passage leading to the tank that is causing this but I am not convinced that this is normal, please share your thoughts on the same.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I was worried about the not so obvious end i.e the distributor end.

LOL. My bad I thought you referred to the spark plug end. Yeah, you need to label those distributor cap outputs before removing the cables or colour code them for easier installation.

The procedure in question is setting valve lash.

Sorry didn't get you. You're adjusting the valves too?

I guess I might be looking at the wrong angle as I was trying to peek in through the sides with AF box still in place, would get that removed once the new parts arrive.

I checked the Zen MPFI manual PDF and it shows the marking clearly on the left hand/crank pulley side of the engine with you in front of the car. Probably hidden by the airbox.

..the car showed signs of bogging, but not as profound as it was before, which makes we wonder if the issue is due me not idling car for a bit i.e warm up, the F10D Estilo doesn't require this but now I'm coming to think that the G10B Zen requires it, not sure though as the Issue only arises when starting cold with the AC on, confirmed by starting today morning, though the bogging was minimal due to ambient temperatures being on the higher side around 9 am. I guess I would only be able to conclude once spares arrive and I rule out the Throttle Body and IAC as well.

Did you get the injectors cleaned?

Tried and failed, the usual guy claims that he's never had to do a timing adjustment, might be true since the possibility of it going out of what is dim as per this thread and most likely his customers don't cover that many miles or keep cars for longer periods.

The real reason is modern cars very rarely require timing adjustments unless you dismantle the engine. It's an investment they don't want to make.

Now get this, I was asked to look for a cap that had to be removed to access a timing inspection window like on motorcycles and I was relieved as I couldn't spot the marks mentioned as per the instructions provided in the workshop manual(find mark on the crankshaft pulley and aligning it with the corresponding mark on the timing belt cover), but then strangely I couldn't find the same being mentioned anywhere in the workshop manual, my friend even sent me a picture of the same on the F10D motor;

Once I checked the manual it is obvious there is no inspection window in the Zen MPFI at the flywheel. The timing marks are there at the crankshaft pulley end only. Take off the airbox and it should be visible.

What are the consumables that need to be replaced as far as the fuel tank goes, asking as I've noticed fuel dripping while the car is being filled even when I'm not filling the tank up to the full mark. The fuel bunk attendant said its a normal occurrence for older cars as it is the fuel splashing around in the passage leading to the tank that is causing this but I am not convinced that this is normal, please share your thoughts on the same.

Gotta love these petrol pump attendants and their theories.

Where does the fuel drip from and how much do fuel do you normally fill? Full tank? Fill only till the petrol dispenser switches off. Do not overfill. Also, check if the breather hose + overflow pipe attached to the fuel filler inlet is blocked. Also, tell the attendant to fill the tank at a slower pace.