[R2D2]

Originally Posted by vikramvicky1984

Thanks a lot. You were correct. Driver and mechanic had taken for a ride. Had claimed to replace alternator cutout n billed 3k.

There's no such thing as an alternator 'cut-out' or relay. The whole charging circuit is protected only by heavy duty fuses.

There is also an "Alt-S" fuse under the bonnet. Please check that too. The 'S' stands for 'sense". If this fuse has blown the alternator rotor field coils won't receive the excitation voltage when you turn on the ignition nor will it be able to 'sense' the battery voltage. Hence the name.

Have parked it in closed garage. Will send it to asc when time permits.

I'd recommend you disconnect the battery -ve (negative) cable if you intend parking the car over 10 days.

Whole thing was my mistake, firstly not trust a roadside mechanic to jumpstart ( which created the whole problem). Don't trust a new driver who we often felt pilferaged fuel. Hadbadi mein bahut gadbadi ho gaya

Road side mechanics follow the 'jugaad' system which means they just want to get the job done and the vehicle running. Safety does not figure in their calculations. The owners manual has clear instructions on how to jump start the vehicle. As an owner you should take the effort to become familiar with the process.

[vikramvicky1984]

Originally Posted by R2D2

There's no such thing as an alternator 'cut-out' or relay. The whole charging circuit is protected only by heavy duty fuses.

There is also an "Alt-S" fuse under the bonnet. Please check that too. The 'S' stands for 'sense". If this fuse has blown the alternator rotor field coils won't receive the excitation voltage when you turn on the ignition nor will it be able to 'sense' the battery voltage. Hence the name.



I'd recommend you disconnect the battery -ve (negative) cable if you intend parking the car over 10 days.



Road side mechanics follow the 'jugaad' system which means they just want to get the job done and the vehicle running. Safety does not figure in their calculations. The owners manual has clear instructions on how to jump start the vehicle. As an owner you should take the effort to become familiar with the process.

Yes boss.
As I said I was in a hurry on Sunday to go somewhere with a large group in 3 cars. In a hurry to get the job done quickly we overlooked what the mechanic was doing. Few seconds of negligence on my part and the damage was done.
It was a Sunday so I couldn't attend the car and left it on the driver. Again negligence on my part.
I didn't even check or start the car until today. Again negligence
It had been raining non stop since Sunday and I was busy too- again an excuse on my part only.

A new battery amazon was added on Monday. I am sending it to asc through old driver who has maintained it the car since new. Should go in a day or two. I hope I will just have a to pay the money and everything will be alright.
Moral: if you don't have time, just park it aside and wait till you attend properly- use other car if you have else public transport. Shortcuts will make a simple push start and a new home delivered battery issue into many thousands and week.
This was the first time in 6 years car car went outside asc.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

........

Unfortunately, almost all the ready-made jumper cables marketed online and in local shops are made of thin copper (or whatever) wires surrounded by thick rubber insulation (to make the cables appear thick and heavy duty). They are no where close to supporting the Amperage rating needed to carry all that high current required for jumpstarts.

The best (and reliable) thing to do is purchase the heavy duty copper cables of the required length (like Finolex rated for 600 Amp) and buy the jumpers clips and join them to make the jumper cables. The longer the cable, the thicker the copper wire needed.

What I had done ages ago was
. Bought a long length of starter cable for Fiat 1100
. Searched for and bought large copper clamps from Junk shop
. Got the clamps soldered by Radiator repair guy

You can do the same, the only problem is finding heavy duty clamps. Most available are quite thin. Here a few that are sturdy
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...3.8.W2rOsn&s=p
https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-A.../dp/B01M7QRXAH
http://www.amazon.in/Generic-Insulat...inhydr18418-21

[ajayclicks]

A few shops in JC Road, Bangalore are selling jumper cables for 1250/ 1550. Stuff is very heavy with large clips. Manufactured by Delhi based company. The shopkeepers do not know the Ampere rating.

Not sure if they are significantly better than the stuff available on Amazon for 350- 500 bucks. Any suggestions, or personal experiences to share?

[Saanil]

Hi,

Got a very basic question for experts here. My A-Star's battery died recently and was jump started by a mechanic. Do I have to be worried that the life of the battery is over? This is surprising given then the battery is less than 2 years old. However, the battery is my father's Honda City also went dead in less than 2 years.

Should I consider replacing the battery? Is there a rule that if a battery dies once, it has just few months of life? Or jump starting a battery can ensure normal functioning of the battery?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Saanil

Got a very basic question for experts here. My A-Star's battery died recently and was jump started by a mechanic. Do I have to be worried that the life of the battery is over? This is surprising given then the battery is less than 2 years old. However, the battery is my father's Honda City also went dead in less than 2 years.

Well, keeping a battery discharged will lead to sulphation and affect its life. So, the earlier you get the battery back to 100% charge the better it is. I assume the battery has been topped off with distilled water as and when required and your car's charging system is up to spec.

You do not need to replace the battery unless it is assessed to be faulty. They generally do a load and specific gravity test to determine this.

Since this is the 2nd battery that died in 2 years across 2 vehicles, need to ask if the running is low. If yes, consider buying a smart charger so you can charge/maintain the battery yourself. Believe me, it's cheaper to charge the battery using a bench charger than to use the car just to keep the battery charged.

Should I consider replacing the battery? Is there a rule that if a battery dies once, it has just few months of life? Or jump starting a battery can ensure normal functioning of the battery?

A discharged battery doesn't hold up too well in the long term. But don't fret and replace it just yet. Just have the battery fully charged and assess its performance over the next few months to determine if a new one is required.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by R2D2

A discharged battery doesn't hold up too well in the long term. But don't fret and replace it just yet. Just have the battery fully charged and assess its performance over the next few months to determine if a new one is required.

Many thanks for your reply. After jump starting the battery once, my dad used the car for another two days and post that the car refused to start again. The dealer has taken the car back and told us that the issue is not with the battery but with the alternator. He is saying that when we use the car's AC/headlights/stereo, the alternator needs to give the correct output. In our case, the alternator's output was weak which was putting pressure on the battery and causing to drain it.

Apologies but I am not aware of the workings of battery/alternator. Does the explanation given by the dealer sound reasonable? He said replacing the alternator should solve this issue.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Saanil

Does the explanation given by the dealer sound reasonable? He said replacing the alternator should solve this issue.

You don't need to replace the alternator as it can be repaired. If this is your dealer's advice his ethics are suspect.

Please have the regulator & rectifier checked by a 3rd party auto electrician. He may be able to repair the fault for you. Regulators and rectifiers are not very expensive compared to the price of a new alternator assembly.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by R2D2

You don't need to replace the alternator as it can be repaired. If this is your dealer's advice his ethics are suspect.

Please have the regulator & rectifier checked by a 3rd party auto electrician. He may be able to repair the fault for you. Regulators and rectifiers are not very expensive compared to the price of a new alternator assembly.

The Maruti True Value dealer from where I purchased the car has replaced the alternator without charging anything. He said he thought of repairing the alternator (rather than replacing it) but still replaced the entire thing as he did not want to take any chances. Although he did not charge me anything, he said that the alternator costs around 6,000 (my car is A-Star Vxi).

The car is running fine now. Hope it stays the same. Many thanks for your help R2D2!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Saanil

The Maruti True Value dealer from where I purchased the car has replaced the alternator without charging anything.

That's a good gesture from the dealer.

However, did he install a brand new or reconditioned unit or one taken from another car? I ask because these guys, even some dealers, are known to swap parts from other vehicles.

The car is running fine now. Hope it stays the same. Many thanks for your help R2D2!

You're welcome Glad to hear things worked in your favour.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by mithun

Guide: How to jump start your car!

Allowing roadside mechanics to jump start your car (my mistake was in them connecting the negative terminal of both cars) can lead to a big faux pas in Ford Aspire.

TL;DR - Puny battery can be discharged in 2 hour of hazard lights. ECU prioritizes cute lighting over cranking engine. Don't get a local battery guy to jumpstart the car - wait for roadside assistance.Jump starting the wrong way puts ECU in limp home mode limited to 30 kph.

Firstly, the car is designed to be clever - when you enter / close the door, the indoor lights come on, the headlight and hazard light comes on for a few seconds. The 12V point is always charged. Except it comes at a cost. Battery drain. My car battery is SO PUNY that yesterday I parked it in a tight area (read near an area where I expected some brain dead gurgaon drivers) with hazard lights on and in 2 hours, it was discharged!

In comparison my Swift diesel's battery even at 7 years of age allowed me to sleep in the car with blower and hazard light running for 6 hours!

The hits don't end there. The engineering stupidity is so galling, even a college student would find it laughable. All these cute lights are ON, but I can't crank my car!



If Ford engineers were to design a human being this is the equivalent of prioritizing digestion over heartbeat. Insanely thoughtless engineering. Wonder what other brainless engineering I will discover in the future.

Here's the kicker. If you do get it jump started incorrectly by local battery guys (who connect the negative of the booster car to the negative of my battery, not the metal part as instructed), the ECU goes into limp home mode, you cant drive above 40-50 and sports mode is disabled (see blank space to the left of the odo where gear is normally displayed).


I had to waste 5 hours on Sunday to get it rectified at the F.A.S.S - the faults were low battery voltage (service warning) and TCM voltage surge (due to the wrong way of jump starting)

In Ford best practice, they refused to let me save the exact error codes but were supremely gracious in not charging me a penny.

This has a serious implication on my personal safety. This finicky car cannot be trusted to be taken to Ladakh for instance. Imagine car in limp mode at Tanglangla. TBHP rules prevent me from mentioning the violent thoughts crossing my mind.

Yesterday's episode was downtown Gurgaon but its happened to me before in a remote village 40km from Gurgaon in the dead of the night, and my family had a minor meltdown till I arrived home safe. My battery (1.5 years since purchase, 2 years since manufacture) was checked and found fine in both instances but I will seek a more professional opinion soon. Maybe once the car completes two years, I will replace it with the diesel model's larger battery, just for safety sake - there is sufficient space for it in the engine bay.

I won't advise Ford cars to any single woman who drives herself in North India. Ford engineers put personal safety at risk. This is not a bug - its a feature, just like the MCAS which was potentially responsible for the crash of Lion Air JT610.

I'm not denying that I was lazy in letting the neighborhood battery shop guy jump starting it the wrong way - but they need to realize they introduced an unnecessarily failure mode for no value add. I had to jump start my battery in the Swift once, and it was again the same way, but no limp home mode happened then. Maybe 2008 cars had a less finicky ECU and today's Suzuki cars have this feature as well. But this is right in the league of the S-cross bumper fiasco (S-Cross' suspicious build: Towing rips out the tow hook & front members) - vehicles must be designed to be idiot proof in crisis. I called two other battery shops on Sohna Road Gurgaon just to be sure - both confirmed their method is the same - "plus to plus, minus to minus"

[Samurai]

Moving out of Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing.

[Who_are_you]

Thank you for sharing.

Apologies for OT but can't we start the car with a dead battery with a push?

Recently I helped a Hyundai Xcent cab driver with a dead battery. The car started with a simple push.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Who_are_you

Thank you for sharing.

Apologies for OT but can't we start the car with a dead battery with a push?

Recently I helped a Hyundai Xcent cab driver with a dead battery. The car started with a simple push.

Mine is an automatic therefore pushing doesn't work.

My experience was a catastrophic failure of multiple issues coming out of a small mistake, compounded by Ford's ECU programming.

In fact, I always wonder - when we can restart our computers if things are stuck - why does the car not give me a chance to clean the codes and start afresh. To take a cheesy metaphor, these cars carry around emotional baggage of the jump start forever till you go to a service center. Its my car. I should have the option to reset the codes, in a way that the car can record my preference, for warranty purposes

What's the worst that can happen? Codes will come back and I will call RSA.

But to potter around town with a piece of metal that doesn't go above 30 no matter what you do, is annoying.

I know this because in December end when this happened, I had to leave the country for ten days for vacation. I disconnected the battery completely and then left. But the error codes were still there! Annoying doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about these persistent codes. Its a warning - let me delete it and reboot the car? Its my car? But does Ford care? No.

Originally Posted by mithun

#5 - Connect the other end of the black cable to an unpainted metal surface (such as a bolt) in the engine bay of the dead car:

Going back to this thread (Bad Engineering - Features which endanger personal safety) - I couldnt understand why the battery voltage and TCM voltage unreliable errors happened when doing the old style "plus to plus, minus to minus" jump start.

The negative terminal is connected to the body of the car. So if I connect to an unpainted bolt, how is that dramatically different from connecting to the negative terminal, which is itself connected to the body in a similar fashion?

Can someone explain the physics to me?

[Who_are_you]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Mine is an automatic therefore pushing doesn't work....

I do not have much knowledge about the said subject. But I think this is a safety feature provided by the company. What if the error message is for faulty transmission and you may end up a completely immobilised car.

If the car does not clear error message with a generic OBD reader and requires some proprietary software then your point is justified.

Also, I always carry the user manual with me. There is a clear warning mentioned for jumpstarting and hazard light.