[Added_flavor]

Hi Bhpians,

I own a Hyndai Verna CRDi - 2009 December model. The vehicle has run about 48000 km as I type this. I am facing an issue with the engine overheating and I've put down the whole incident below. Please read through patiently and help me out on the path ahead.

Saturday, 22nd December:

The car had been serviced at 43500 km and had done about 4.5k after service. Topped her up, checked Air pressure, filled water in the windscreen washer and started towards my destination with my mother in the passenger seat. After crossing Krishnagiri at about 11 AM (Yes, maddening traffic and after the Breakfast break), I noticed that the AC was totally ineffective. First I thought it was because of clogged AC vents, but i was wrong. The insides started to fog up completely and I realized AC is actually blowing out hot air!

This was when I glanced at the dashboard and realized the engine temperature guage has gone up to 'H'. I pulled over immediately and called the Hyundai 24 hour helpline. The emergency vehicle had to come from Hosur and eventually came at 1.30 PM. The first thing we checked was the coolant and my fears came true! There was NO coolant, it was running dry. The ECU cut off the AC because of the high engine temperature!

The engineer topped up the coolant+water and checked for leakages. There was no leakage at all found! Then where did the coolant go?!

Next we noticed that, when the radiator(?) cap was opened, the coolant was boiling - which the service engineer attributed to a damaged/weak head gasket. But after the coolant was topped up, there was no leakage and the engine temperature never went beyond the normal level.

Now the vehicle is in Trident Hyundai service centre, Bangalore.

1. I'm typing this as I just had a conversation with my SA. The problem is my (extended) warranty has got expired just 10 days back (Dec 12th to be precise) and I'm not sure if Hyundai will still offer to carry out the repair under warranty.

2. SA says the head gasket HAS to be replaced and the head will have to be sent to the machine shop to check for damage. And of course all this warrants for the engine to be dismantled.

3. SA and SM have agreed to follow the normal warranty claim process with Hyundai, but are not sure if Hyundai will actually respect the warranty as it got expired 10 days back! They will not start the work until they get either a Yes or No from Hyundai.

My concerns.

A. What caused the over heating if there is no leakage in the hose? SA says there might have been some momentary electrical failure because of which maybe the cooling fan didn't work. Is this possible? If yes, how could it repair itself, as the cooling fan has no issue now.

The other possibility is negligence during service and coolant wasn't topped up. They, of course, are vehemently denying this. To support this, there was coolant leakage reported during the 30K service and the hose was changed. This is reflected in the service records also. However the coolant wasn't touched during the 43500 km service.


B. If Hyundai does not agree to my warranty claim, how do I go about it? Is it better to get the job done outside? If yes any suggestions in Bangalore?

Kindly help me out!

[humyum]

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Firstly, I don't think the service station are at fault here as your car would not run 4.5 thousand k without coolant if something did happen during service. Generally a coolant top up is not required. To give you an example of that. In my 65 thousand run Swift Diesel, I have never topped off coolant even once. Yes it has been changed at every 20 thousand km intervals but in between that never topped up.

The head gasket theory would sound probable if coolant was found in the engine oil and vice versa, did that happen ? If yes, then definitely a blown gasket.

Lastly I think Hyundai will most probably pass your warranty claim as 10 days is not a long enough time for them to warrant a refusal, remember the staff working at Hyundai are humans from India too and knowing how all we function, it' ll be passed. In case it's not, I would still suggest you get the car repaired at the Hyundai workshop itself. They are well versed with these engines as they would have worked on hundreds of them till now and know how best to get it back in shape.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by humyum

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Firstly, I don't think the service station are at fault here as your car would not run 4.5 thousand k without coolant if something did happen during service. Generally a coolant top up is not required. To give you an example of that. In my 65 thousand run Swift Diesel, I have never topped off coolant even once. Yes it has been changed at every 20 thousand km intervals but in between that never topped up.

The head gasket theory would sound probable if coolant was found in the engine oil and vice versa, did that happen ? If yes, then definitely a blown gasket.

Lastly I think Hyundai will most probably pass your warranty claim as 10 days is not a long enough time for them to warrant a refusal, remember the staff working at Hyundai are humans from India too and knowing how all we function, it' ll be passed. In case it's not, I would still suggest you get the car repaired at the Hyundai workshop itself. They are well versed with these engines as they would have worked on hundreds of them till now and know how best to get it back in shape.

Yes I understand a coolant top-up between the 20k intervals is not required. But as I told you, during the 30K service, I was told that there is a coolant leak owing to cut in a hose.

Upon checking the engine oil, we saw that there was no increase in the quantity of engine oil (as on the dip stick) and he hence we can say coolant was not mixed with the oil.

So the only conclusion is the coolant got evaporated over time and I haven't noticed the overheating of the engine till the AC stopped working on this day. The only thing I don't understand as of now is, how/why the engine was over heating as everything seems normal now.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Yes I understand a coolant top-up between the 20k intervals is not required. But as I told you, during the 30K service, I was told that there is a coolant leak owing to cut in a hose.

Upon checking the engine oil, we saw that there was no increase in the quantity of engine oil (as on the dip stick) and he hence we can say coolant was not mixed with the oil.

So the only conclusion is the coolant got evaporated over time and I haven't noticed the overheating of the engine till the AC stopped working on this day. The only thing I don't understand as of now is, how/why the engine was over heating as everything seems normal now.

Well from your description I can only fathom that the coolant leaked out 'again' from somewhere causing the overheating, but from your first post in which after filling the radiators again no leaks were found makes me wonder how is that possible? Maybe a minute leak somewhere which slowly but steadily reduced the amount of water/coolant in the system ? Seems like the only cause.

[ramzsys]

If engine is fine now, in the sense: no additional noise/clatter/whine; pickup is the same; oil level remains constant(and not going up) or oil is not frothy, and coolant remains clear with no colour change, then i think you don't have an issue.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by humyum

Well from your description I can only fathom that the coolant leaked out 'again' from somewhere causing the overheating, but from your first post in which after filling the radiators again no leaks were found makes me wonder how is that possible? Maybe a minute leak somewhere which slowly but steadily reduced the amount of water/coolant in the system ? Seems like the only cause.

Yes, that or the engine overheated for some other reason (SA says the cooling fan relay might have malfunctioned momentarily) and hence the coolant got evaporated.

Originally Posted by ramzsys

If engine is fine now, in the sense: no additional noise/clatter/whine; pickup is the same; oil level remains constant(and not going up) or oil is not frothy, and coolant remains clear with no colour change, then i think you don't have an issue.

The vehicle is at the HASS now. They have initiated the warranty process and Hyundai is yet to get back to them with the confirmation.

SA says the head gasket has to be changed as the boiling of coolant shouldn't happen.

I have asked them not to dismantle the engine until Hyundai reverts with either a yes or no to warranty claim.

[cyberwhizs]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

A. What caused the over heating if there is no leakage in the hose? SA says there might have been some momentary electrical failure because of which maybe the cooling fan didn't work. Is this possible? If yes, how could it repair itself, as the cooling fan has no issue now.

Get your wiring/fuse connector rechecked, i had experienced a similar issue with my indica - a loose contact in the fuse box between the fuse and fuse holder resulted in melting of the fuse holder, giving intermittent connection and the fan tripping and temperature rising. Was driving back from outstation, had a difficult time keeping the temperature in the safe zone till i managed to get to a TASC.

Like others have mentioned, if there isnt any mixing of the coolant and engine oil you are probably ok.

[Added_flavor]

HASS opened the engine and found that the coolant was leaking from the oil cooler. So there's no mixing of engine oil and coolant.

Now the SA says Hyundai has agreed to bear only 50% of the costs. Is this valid considering the extended warranty is just over and the car has done only 48k km?

I want to tell you guys that the car has been perfectly taken care of in all aspects, be it regular servicing, idling the vehicle on a cold start, idling while turning the engine off etc. I'm a displeased customer who's made to shell out money for no fault of mine!

[zenren]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

HASS opened the engine and found that the coolant was leaking from the oil cooler. So there's no mixing of engine oil and coolant.

Now the SA says Hyundai has agreed to bear only 50% of the costs. Is this valid considering the extended warranty is just over and the car has done only 48k km?

Look at the question as a Yes/No question (Is the car within warranty?) if you want to know if they are unfair or not. If it is within warranty, they need to bear the full cost. If not, they need not bear anything.

Technically, Hyundai is well within their rights to deny warranty if it expired and the issue was not reported even once during the warranty period. It doesn't really matter even if warranty expired a day before (just like insurance policy).

Usually, companies look at the claims immediately after warranty period on a case to case basis and mostly go ahead with giving the claim fully or partially based on good faith if they find the case to be genuine. Full vs partial could be depending on the part involved and the expected longevity of the part if such a problem didn't exist. The fact that it crossed the entire warranty period without issues means you got at least a good fraction of the usable life for this part.

I want to tell you guys that the car has been perfectly taken care of in all aspects, be it regular servicing, idling the vehicle on a cold start, idling while turning the engine off etc. I'm a displeased customer who's made to shell out money for no fault of mine!

It would be equally unfair for the customer to expect the company to repair/replace a part free of cost, which would have even otherwise not lasted much longer. So we cannot generalize that the company should always pay for the entire repairs even if it is outside of the warranty period. In your case, since the problem was inside the engine, they might be looking at what fraction of the distance did your engine run when compared to the CRDi engines in other Verna cars before showing any signs of trouble.

If you have complained anything related to this in your previous services, it is worth exploring from the angle that the problem existed even during the warranty period and you had raised it within the warranty period.

[anandpadhye]

How much is the cost involved? Hyundai will pay 50% of parts as well as labour?
BTW, what's the root cause of coolant leaking into the oil cooler? Cracked head gasket? Oil and collant are not mixing at all?

[Added_flavor]

Total cost for head gasket + head machining (If required)+ oil cooler + Consumables + labor is coming up to 30k (Estimate).

I am made to understand that Hyundai is paying 25% and Trident is paying 25% of the cost (Minus the consumables, which is on me). So I've been told that my expenditure might come up to 15-20K.

There was coolant leakage in one of the hoses attached to the oil cooler, which resulted in high engine temperatures and consequent 'weakening' of head gasket, which has to be replaced now.

There was no mixing of the engine oil and coolant, but SA advised me to change the engine oil also during repair as a precautionary measure.

[anandpadhye]

OK, so changing the hose is not enough?
BTW, if you give them a go ahead, will they offer warranty (and how many years) on head gasket and all the other parts they will be chaning? I would vote in favour of getting it done at service center itself rather than some independent garrage.

Just make sure that the work is fully covered with warranty with no strings attached (e.g. Skoda offers 2 years warranty on an parts replaced post warranty).

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

OK, so changing the hose is not enough?
BTW, if you give them a go ahead, will they offer warranty (and how many years) on head gasket and all the other parts they will be chaning? I would vote in favour of getting it done at service center itself rather than some independent garrage.

Just make sure that the work is fully covered with warranty with no strings attached (e.g. Skoda offers 2 years warranty on an parts replaced post warranty).

Yes Anand the entire work is being done at a HASS only.

Each part that is changed now will have an individual warranty of 6 months from the date of replacement.

The SA is not very clear about how exactly the coolant has leaked from the oil cooler, but is saying the oil cooler itself has an issue and has to be changed. Along with it, even the hose connected to it will be changed. I need to have a deeper look into the 'cause' when I go there on Wednesday.

Also, from what the SA told me, I could understand that he was referring to 'corrosion' at the joint between the hose and the oil cooler, owing to leakage. Can this be possible?

[anandpadhye]

OK, so are they sure head gasket is really involved?
I think you should ask them to show you each part involved (and take some photos when you go there). Why touch head gasket if the issue is with the hoses and oil cooler...but I may be wrong...

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

OK, so are they sure head gasket is really involved?
I think you should ask them to show you each part involved (and take some photos when you go there). Why touch head gasket if the issue is with the hoses and oil cooler...but I may be wrong...

Yes I'm sure the head gasket has to be changed as I have witnessed the coolant 'boiling' when the radiator cap was opened, which is a clear case of a blown gasket. Also, I have read that driving with a weak gasket will also hamper other parts over time.

However I'm not sure about the issue with the cooler and the hose and need to see it myself to understand.

Yes, I shall ask them for the replaced parts. Thanks for that.