[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by Ascari

@Dreddy

I disagree.As a petrolhead I find it a sacrilege if someone spews venom on the IC Engine.I am actually surprised that in a forum of petrolheads not many have objected to this denigration of the IC based cars.

Ascari

Whoa!! Hold it right there!! Why should anyone "object" and who said T-BHP is only for petrol heads? T-BHP is for anyone who loves automobiles not for Petrol heads.

[puchoo]

I think you are taking it a little too much to heart. The spirit of the forum is to celebrate and discuss automobiles and not limited to those running on IC's.

Just to reiterate the tag line which you can find below the logo :-

Redlining the Indian Automotive Scene

Think that summaries why we are all here and what the forums aims to do , having threads and reviews such as this on electric cars is priceless in my opinion given the amount of insights and information it would provide to the general public and us. I consider it an advantage to have someone with an electric car whom I and many others can reach out to for advise.

Originally Posted by Ascari

@Dreddy

I disagree.As a petrolhead I find it a sacrilege if someone spews venom on the IC Engine.I am actually surprised that in a forum of petrolheads not many have objected to this denigration of the IC based cars.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by click

on the other hand, e2o accelerates faster than IC engine and is perfect for zipping around in a city probably better than the hot hatches in the same price range.

But I wonder why the acceleration figure for E20 is not impressive. It takes 15+ seconds to reach 60 kmph and by then most hatch backs would be doing 100+ kmph.

[DReddy]

Originally Posted by Ascari

@Dreddy

I disagree.As a petrolhead I find it a sacrilege if someone spews venom on the IC Engine.I am actually surprised that in a forum of petrolheads not many have objected to this denigration of the IC based cars.Cars are not tools for us, are they? They are the object of our love and attention.Just because an EV is more efficient than IC based cars,it need not mean they are better please!

Anyway the whole thread was like reading a script from the marketing department of Mahindra Reva.No negatives? Common people! What about driving pleasure? Is that not one of the main criterion we use to buy cars?

Yes I understand that oil is depleting and all but I just don't think EV's are the future.I hope it's not.

Ascari

Spewing venom? Sacrilege? If you had read my earlier post properly you would have noted that I talked about how precious the IC engine technology is to me and how much I revere it. What the heck I earn my daily bread thanks to the IC engine.

If you are a true petrolhead no one would understand better than you when I say that 'driving pleasure' especially with an IC engine under the hood should be around for another two or three centuries so that we leave this legacy for generations to come and not just eat up all the oil as we are doing today. The only way out to do that is by putting 'something else' under the hood.

Also, please dont generalise saying automotive technology is dead if the IC engine is gone. If you make automobiles for a living you would never make such a statement. Just test drive some vehicle propelled by an electric motor for a change be it a car or even a two wheeler, you will find that all things associated with regular vehicles such as chassis, suspension, steering, brakes are all the very same in these too.

Unless you are scared that you might end up liking it!

P.S - you should really look at how many people think that this line of discussion was not really called for in the first place. Nevertheless I had to put in a reply.

[appu.bhandari]

First of all hats off for this smart (not courageous or brave) decision and informative review, I would say smart because you have thought about the future while making your buying decision. Considering the fact that the price of petrol, diesel is only going upwards and the cost of cars aren't gonna reduce. EV seems like a nice alternative. It's not fantastic or the planet saver but it would do the job and that's what Mahindra Reva delivered with the new ev. I have been seeing the first edition reva for a long time (neighbor works there and use to being different colour, variant of reva's). They were well received in Bangalore, and I really commend the work and devotion Chetan Maini has put into the company.

In my personal opinion, I would prefer a hybrid vehicle like the Prius, with a reasonable pricing. We Indians are among the most value seeking customers and what better than an hybrid vehicle which gives us more bucks for our money.

Coming to the adaptability part, I think we eventually would adopt a EV vehicle when it delivers the needs of an average car buyer which it still doesn't fulfill. They still have that unknown factor that work against them. With time and advancing technology that would be over come.

Regarding the subsidy part, the earlier Reva use to get 75k to 93k subsidy under the older policy which ended last financial year and the new one to be administered by National Council Of Electric Mobility is stuck due to this inefficient govt. The sales would have been more if the older policy was extended.

I would follow this thread for your long term review. Initially everything seems rosy, what I seek is the result in the long run.

Congrats on your purchase and all the best.
Drive safe.

[Ascari]

@Dreddy

My Apologies! I should have been more clear in my post.I meant Kamyfc and not you Sir! Kamyfc throughout the thread has been less than kind to IC based cars and in my opinion it was completely wrong.It is only an opinion.You and me have the right to disagree,it is a democracy gentleman!

PS:I meant petrol-heads , I am sure there are thousand of them in this August Forum!

[humyum]

Originally Posted by kamyfc

I live on the 6th floor in an apartment complex. And i use it.
Living in an apartment cant be a barrier.

Sorry, I beg to disagree, but its fine, we share different opinions regarding this.

Originally Posted by kamyfc

True that. You cant drive out of station. And yes if u travel every weekend out of the city this is not for you.
But the 95% of the population - who go out of the city once in a while, they can rent a car once in while and use the running cost savings on such trips.

I disagree again. The running cost saving is negated by the high initial price, what about that ?

For example, it costs a whopping 8 lakhs arounds in Mumbai on road.

Let me compare this with a Wagon R which is way bigger than this car, runs on an expensive fuel called petrol and costs 5 lakhs on road.

3 lakhs you end up paying more initially, after 5 years there is a battery pack replacement of 1.5 to 2 lakhs.

Now the maths.

Average driver runs 10,000 km a month. At 10 km a litre, a Wagon R will consume 1000 litres of fuel, costing lets say 75 rupees = Rs 75,000 a year.

AN E20 as estimated would consume 50 rupees worth of electricity for every 100 km, so that's for 10,000 km = Rs 5000

So thats a saving of 70 thousand a year over the Wagon R which will take 4 years to recover approximately and in the 5th year you will shell out approximately 2 lakhs for a battery pack replacement.

Of course the Wagon R will have its maintenance too, but less than 1/4th the amount of a battery pack replacement.

So from the monetary point of view, the Wagon R which we compared wins hands down.

But you get more in the Wagon R like Space, range, highway capabilities.

I by no means mean to discourage you on your choice of vehicle, but just getting the economics in the picture to point out the non feasibility of this vehicle to an Indian consumer.

Having technology is a good thing and Mahindra has done a good job for this vehicle, but launching technology unsuitable for a particular market is another strategy in itself.

Originally Posted by kamyfc

Swift --> Maruti + super fun to drive

Figo--> Good space + low end torque

I20---> Hyundai + Engine + features

E20 --> ?

Hmm how bout
- Super fun to drive in city (where 95% of driving happens) - with Auto Transmission.
- Instant Torque at 0 RPM - Throttle response is 'electric'
- Super Quiet
- Super advanced Tech features (the above 3 cars dont even come close)
- Intelligent & Clever
- Using Indian generated energy instead of imported foreign energy
- Keeping cities clean

What makes u say the IC engined cars are not fun to drive in the city ? Yes, they are not auto, but the petrol ones atleast have a super light clutch and amazing gearshifts.

Sorry, most of the above advantages you gave are marketing talks, not real life scenarios. In a country like India which has coal generating 57% of its electricity, you are not gaining much in terms of carbon foot print. Just shifting the mode of pollution from the car to the power station.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...the-coal-truth

A good article to read

Super advanced tech features ? Like what ? Regenerative braking ?Automatic transmission? SMS to tell you that u ve forgotten to unplug the charger or lock the door ?

Originally Posted by kamyfc

Ah well i can keep going.
This car is not for people who travel a lot like sales people or business people who need to travel across cities etc.
But will suit 95% of the urban population. Costs will reduce with time and then this will be an even more viable option.

A EV costing Rs 5 Lakh with 200 km range - now that would hit the sweet spot, wouldn't it?

It will 'only' be an option worth consideration by the general MASS if the costs reduce to a very large extent and by that I mean as comparable to a Alto 800 or a Wagon R at the max in terms of price with a range of 200 km or even 150 km.

Again, these are just my point of view and in no way discouraging to your buying choice.

Enjoy and as long it this car makes you happy, that is what matters

Originally Posted by click

on the other hand, e2o accelerates faster than IC engine and is perfect for zipping around in a city probably better than the hot hatches in the same price range.

ROFL, which IC Engine ? Sunny or Scooty ?

An E20 in boost mode, does 0 to 60 kmph in 11.5 seconds.

A Tata nano does the same in less than 10 seconds.

Let me not even get the hot hatches in the picture as E20 in the rear view mirror won't even be visible.

[9thsphinx]

@Kamyfc:

A very interesting review and an equally interesting car for the Indian roads. I knew the e2o packed some next gen tech, but wizardry came as a surprise. Those reminder SMS's to you for locking the car, pulling the handbrake etc. is something I haven't even seen on the top end German makes. I've seen a single blue e2o parked on the road till date and that's about it - which is what make this little bugger so exclusive.

Congratulations on owning a future piece of technology today! Hope it fares well.

Drive safe.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by humyum

I by no means mean to discourage you on your choice of vehicle, but just getting the economics in the picture to point out the non feasibility of this vehicle to an Indian consumer.
Having technology is a good thing and Mahindra has done a good job for this vehicle, but launching technology unsuitable for a particular market is another strategy in itself.

I am not disagreeing with your maths, but priorities while buying a car varies from person to person. For some it may be running costs, for some others it maybe exclusivity, new technology, environmental friendliness etc.

And, not feasible for Indian consumer or technology not suitable for Indian market etc. are standard comments for anything new to our market. But someone has to start it right? Today’s exception may become tomorrow’s norm.

[giri1.8]

Excellent review but I find many people complaining that EV's should be subsidized by government, but lets not forget that electricity is already subsidized.

[puchoo]

There is no correlation between electricity being subsidized and this car needing to be , while electricity is the fuel we dont have a problem with the "adoption rate" of electricity - if the government needs to boost usage of this vehicle then a subsidy would help in doing that.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Excellent review but I find many people complaining that EV's should be subsidized by government, but lets not forget that electricity is already subsidized.

[awadsaud]

Originally Posted by kamyfc

Thanks for the wishes
I'm proud that i use Indian generated Energy rather than imported OIL from Middle East.
So should u be, when u use an EV
[/b]

Congrats on your new purchase.

I disagree with your viewpoint on using Indian Generated Energy.

India depends on thermal power stations to fulfill the majority of our electricity requirements and these stations require coal (50% of electricity generation), gas or liquid fuel (around 10% of electricity generation) and diesel. Despite having one of the largest reserves of coal, we still import coal. So having a EV does not mean independence from coal/oil imports.

[puchoo]

Agree - And this is not specific to India only , electric cars dont necessarily reduce the pressure on the environment , yes directly they are less polluting but there are enough papers , very interesting to read by the way , where a lot of countries would need to increase their fossil fuel burning to be able to provide the infrastructure to run such cars - hence more carbon going out , also white papers on how electric cars are less environmentally friendly to produce than IC's.

Google and one will find tons of stuff to read on this

Originally Posted by awadsaud

Congrats on your new purchase.

I disagree with your viewpoint on using Indian Generated Energy.

India depends on thermal power stations to fulfill the majority of our electricity requirements and these stations require coal (50% of electricity generation), gas or liquid fuel (around 10% of electricity generation) and diesel. Despite having one of the largest reserves of coal, we still import coal. So having a EV does not mean independence from coal/oil imports.

[stanjohn123]

Simply Superb Ownership review. Congratulations Sir on this brave new electric direction.

If our government supported Mahindra by giving some subsidy helping in price reduction for this vehicle it would go a long way in improving the depreciating Rupee. I hope RBI's new chief Raghuram Rajan can do something about this by influencing the government.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by kamyfc

I hear a lot of worry bout replacement of a battery packs -
I shall offer you a different perspective -

In the first 30k km of the life of a oil powered car, you would need:
* 3 to 6 oil and oil filter changes;
* maybe spark plug changes if long life spark plugs are not being used;
* 1 or 2 fuel filter changes;
* 1 or 2 air filter changes;
* 2 to 3 coolant changes;
* possibly 2 brake pad changes and brake rotor changes (depends on material and driving style) since there is no regen braking with a oil only car;
* possibly a timing belt change;
* might start seeing engine oil leaks which need to be fixed;
and lots of maintenance things that a petrol engine requires.

Err... Are you sure a modern day petrol car needs that much maintenance?

By 30k interval, a petrol car will have had about three oil changes and equal number of oil filter changes, maybe around the same number of air filter changes. Fuel filter replacement each time? They usually last years, at least for petrol cars. Brake pads? Maybe at around 40k kms. Coolant change? Probably once. Engine oil leakage? Apart from whatever spillage while changing the oil, there is none. Timing belts? At 30k? That was a joke, right?

The ownership does, however, give us all a new and interesting perspective on ownjing an electric car, specially the way your car 'talks' to you. We may say our cars 'talk' to us in a different way, but you will enjoy the distinction of this unique mode of communication for a few years to come.

Please do keep posting your ownership experience. You are penning down a very important and unique experience for several of us.