[joethomasv]

I'm still holding on to my booking.

I was undecided about getting the car. Now I'm confused between the petrol and diesel!

When I got the civic in '06, I was convinced that petrol and diesel will cost the same in a few years. Even though I don't regret my decision, I'm not too sure about diesel prices catching up with petrol anytime soon.

But the 1.8 is 1.2-1.5 lakhs cheaper than the diesel and has a far superior rear suspension. Getting a new car sure is a tough job.

[adi_petrolhead]

Originally Posted by graaja

Coming to the 1.8TSI vs. 1.4TSI, I wanted to go with the 1.8TSI for its engine. However because of the reliability issues with the DSG, I am leaning towards the 1.4TSI. As you rightly pointed out, owing to the same 250Nm torque of both the engines, and the 135kg weight difference, 1.4TSI has a better torque/ton ratio. So, 1.4TSI would be my choice.

You must not forget, even though the torque rating for both 1.4 and 1.8 is identical on paper, you WILL feel the lag in the 1.4 as max torque is achieved only near 2000 rpm. Where as the max torque in the 1.8 comes in at about 1250-1500 rpm. If its mostly a highway commuter, go for the 1.4 as it too has ample juice. If you are going to commute in the city a lot, 1.8 Elegance for sure

[Brishti]

The CC mattr when turbo is not pumping, I tried the 1.4 and believe me on paper the Octavia produces almost 20 more PS than Jetta which is less than noticeable in City.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

You must not forget, even though the torque rating for both 1.4 and 1.8 is identical on paper, you WILL feel the lag in the 1.4 as max torque is achieved only near 2000 rpm. Where as the max torque in the 1.8 comes in at about 1250-1500 rpm. If its mostly a highway commuter, go for the 1.4 as it too has ample juice. If you are going to commute in the city a lot, 1.8 Elegance for sure

Originally Posted by Brishti

The CC mattr when turbo is not pumping, I tried the 1.4 and believe me on paper the Octavia produces almost 20 more PS than Jetta which is less than noticeable in City.

Thanks adi_petrolhead and Brishti for pointing this out. I had overlooked the fact that the 1.8TSI produces 250Nm from 1250 to 5000RPM, whereas the 1.4TSI produces the torque from 1500 to 3500RPM. I can totally understand why 1.8TSI is the best engine for city commute.

The only factor that is deterring me from choosing the 1.8TSI Elegance is the infamous 7 speed DSG. I have checked with both VW (for Vento TSI) and Skoda about the steps that have been taken to solve the reliability issues with this DSG. But none of them are able to give a convincing response to this question. Add to this, the lack of extended warranty.

If only the 1.8TSI came with the more reliable 6 speed wet clutch DSG or a manual transmission, my choice wold have been easy! But life is not that simple!

I have been checking TeamBHP threads on DSG issues, and VW and Skoda forums in the UK and Australia. One positive thing is that all the issues that were being reported on the DSG were in 2010 to 2012. The number of reported failures have been very less of late. This could be because VW group has really solved all the issues with the gearbox. We will know for sure in a year or two. Has any of our members talked with a good Skoda or VW technician who has all the technical details of the failures and the changes VW has implemented to solve these issues. That would provide some confidence in the gearbox. I guess this is a discussion for another thread.

[adi_petrolhead]

Originally Posted by graaja

One positive thing is that all the issues that were being reported on the DSG were in 2010 to 2012. The number of reported failures have been very less of late. This could be because VW group has really solved all the issues with the gearbox. We will know for sure in a year or two. Has any of our members talked with a good Skoda or VW technician who has all the technical details of the failures and the changes VW has implemented to solve these issues.

I talked with the GM of service at my dealership, i raised the concern as to why Skoda has not recalled the DSG issue like VW did. He informed me that the issue is only VIN-Specific, and all cars falling under that VIN have been recalled already. The failure is never in the gearbox itself but the Mechatronic unit. Now Mechatronic software keeps updating and if there is an update (just like iOS) to fix bugs in the software, it can be done on existing boxes too. Moreover extended warranty will soon be offered separately thats what I am told by Skoda India officials. Fingers crossed, I say take the plunge!

[Shortsell]

Originally Posted by graaja

The only factor that is deterring me from choosing the 1.8TSI Elegance is the infamous 7 speed DSG. I have checked with both VW (for Vento TSI) and Skoda about the steps that have been taken to solve the reliability issues with this DSG. But none of them are able to give a convincing response to this question. Add to this, the lack of extended warranty.

If only the 1.8TSI came with the more reliable 6 speed wet clutch DSG or a manual transmission, my choice wold have been easy! But life is not that simple!

I had emailed VW on the recall issues. Was pleasantly surprised when they called me today to explain this

VW realised that the sulphur content in the synthetic oil, led to declutching of
the gear box under hot and humid conditions. They did some tests internally and have decided to "switch back" to mineral oil. They are confident that the issues have been resolved.

Plese refer my earlier post where i spoke to a skoda engineer and he told me that they have sorted out the software issues on DSG as well.

The way I see it (and its purely my personal opinion), its not that every car with a DSG will break down. Its a matter of probability. If its 0.10% for a Honda car, may be its 1-2% for VAG cars (I know it is still very high and i may be wrong on the exact numbers, but just flow with me here, instead of getting stuck with numbers). Octavia is already giving you extended warranty and Vento TSi warranty is being launched in 1.5-2 months (Ive been told this by VAG ). So in terms of city driving reliability, I think you are taken care of for 4 years. The only blackswan event and a perfect storm here is if your particular skoda is one amongst those 1-2% cars and it decides to break down at the same time when you are on highways. As you would with any other car, except for the probabilities.

On the plus side, you get that fantastic gear box and engine, while other manufacturers are offering you engines from 2 generations older. Check out the specs on octavia, on elegance atleast it puts some of the cars from a segment or two above to shame.

So if you want to protection against those 5-6 sigma events then go for a Honda/toyota/Hyundai what have you, but be ready to drool everytime you see a guy driving DSG in the city! The choice is always difficult but then it comes down to what you want.

One last bit, and I may be completely wrong again , but i do want to give the benefit of doubt to a global MNC, on their way to replace Toyota as the largest car manufacturer on the planet within 2017---- that they have been able to fix these issues.

[Blackbolt]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

I talked with the GM of service at my dealership, i raised the concern as to why Skoda has not recalled the DSG issue like VW did. He informed me that the issue is only VIN-Specific, and all cars falling under that VIN have been recalled already. The failure is never in the gearbox itself but the Mechatronic unit. Now Mechatronic software keeps updating and if there is an update (just like iOS) to fix bugs in the software, it can be done on existing boxes too. Moreover extended warranty will soon be offered separately thats what I am told by Skoda India officials. Fingers crossed, I say take the plunge!

It's all stories from Skoda. If they had a fix to "the software" why would the mechatronic fail again after a repair/update.

Please check my post below at

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3312948

[graaja]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

I talked with the GM of service at my dealership, i raised the concern as to why Skoda has not recalled the DSG issue like VW did. He informed me that the issue is only VIN-Specific, and all cars falling under that VIN have been recalled already. The failure is never in the gearbox itself but the Mechatronic unit. Now Mechatronic software keeps updating and if there is an update (just like iOS) to fix bugs in the software, it can be done on existing boxes too. Moreover extended warranty will soon be offered separately thats what I am told by Skoda India officials. Fingers crossed, I say take the plunge!

I too had a discussion with the SA here in Coimbatore. Unlike the GM of service you spoke to, the SA here does not know the details of DSG failures. So, I asked him to let me know what would be the cost of replacing a DSG gear box if it were to fail after warranty. If at all I have to take the plunge I would like to know how deep is the water However, I do not know if he will be able to get me the correct detail. Can you check with your contact with your dealership and find an answer to this?

I am now in my second dilemma. Earlier it was head saying Honda City, and heart saying Octavia. Now it is head saying 1.4TSI MT, heart saying 1.8TSI AT. Selecting a car is indeed a tough task!

[adi_petrolhead]

Originally Posted by graaja

I too had a discussion with the SA here in Coimbatore. Unlike the GM of service you spoke to, the SA here does not know the details of DSG failures. So, I asked him to let me know what would be the cost of replacing a DSG gear box if it were to fail after warranty. If at all I have to take the plunge I would like to know how deep is the water However, I do not know if he will be able to get me the correct detail. Can you check with your contact with your dealership and find an answer to this? I am now in my second dilemma. Earlier it was head saying Honda City, and heart saying Octavia. Now it is head saying 1.4TSI MT, heart saying 1.8TSI AT. Selecting a car is indeed a tough task!

If at all there are failures, most probably they are in the mechatronic units only. Post warranty they will cost you 1.25 lakh a piece approximately. Now if your gearbox completely fails, it will cost you 6 lakh to get a new one which will include a new mechatronic in the price. With extended warranty being pitched for launch soon, don't worry, max to max you'll be carless for about 15 days if the gearbox or mechatronic has to be ordered and changed under warranty.

[Brishti]

I was using a Skoda Superb some times back and it had lot of DSG related problems. I did get some of the internal replaced but Skoda did not replace anything under warranty. The sad part was after getting it fixed had to sell it off since another DSG fiasco could not be endured.

I had taken quite a few trips to Kullu/Manali and as soon as the SA found that out he put the blame of the cold weather which is absurd. All in all it was around 2.2 Lac to get the problem fixed and the car was sold again for 11Lac with around 17-18K under the belt. New owners were given the full history and at one point they refused to buy only when the price was reduced to 11Lac from 13Lac did they come back to the table.

Lesson I learned was that VW diesel DSG box's are to be avoided. There might be a real reason why Audi based their design on CVT while still in the VW universe. BMW dual clutch box's are far superior no idea about Mercedes.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

If at all there are failures, most probably they are in the mechatronic units only. Post warranty they will cost you 1.25 lakh a piece approximately. Now if your gearbox completely fails, it will cost you 6 lakh to get a new one which will include a new mechatronic in the price. With extended warranty being pitched for launch soon, don't worry, max to max you'll be carless for about 15 days if the gearbox or mechatronic has to be ordered and changed under warranty.

Thanks for the info adi_petrolhead. Now I know the extent of risk I have to take. But the prospect of getting stranded in the middle of nowhere (most of my trips would be long ones out of town) is really scary.

Originally Posted by Shortsell

I had emailed VW on the recall issues. Was pleasantly surprised when they called me today to explain this

VW realised that the sulphur content in the synthetic oil, led to declutching of
the gear box under hot and humid conditions. They did some tests internally and have decided to "switch back" to mineral oil. They are confident that the issues have been resolved.

Plese refer my earlier post where i spoke to a skoda engineer and he told me that they have sorted out the software issues on DSG as well.

The way I see it (and its purely my personal opinion), its not that every car with a DSG will break down. Its a matter of probability. If its 0.10% for a Honda car, may be its 1-2% for VAG cars (I know it is still very high and i may be wrong on the exact numbers, but just flow with me here, instead of getting stuck with numbers). Octavia is already giving you extended warranty and Vento TSi warranty is being launched in 1.5-2 months (Ive been told this by VAG ). So in terms of city driving reliability, I think you are taken care of for 4 years. The only blackswan event and a perfect storm here is if your particular skoda is one amongst those 1-2% cars and it decides to break down at the same time when you are on highways. As you would with any other car, except for the probabilities.

On the plus side, you get that fantastic gear box and engine, while other manufacturers are offering you engines from 2 generations older. Check out the specs on octavia, on elegance atleast it puts some of the cars from a segment or two above to shame.

So if you want to protection against those 5-6 sigma events then go for a Honda/toyota/Hyundai what have you, but be ready to drool everytime you see a guy driving DSG in the city! The choice is always difficult but then it comes down to what you want.

One last bit, and I may be completely wrong again , but i do want to give the benefit of doubt to a global MNC, on their way to replace Toyota as the largest car manufacturer on the planet within 2017---- that they have been able to fix these issues.

Thanks, Shortsell. The information about your discussion with VW on the DSG is definitely encouraging. And I totally agree with your point. In the end, it all comes down to balancing performance and risk. My mind is almost made regarding Honda City vs. Octavia. I am fine with the A.S.S part of the risk with Skoda. I am going to dwell on the MT vs. AT for a few more days and then make my final call.

[vb-san]

Originally Posted by Brishti

Lesson I learned was that VW diesel DSG box's are to be avoided. There might be a real reason why Audi based their design on CVT while still in the VW universe.

A small correction there. Audi is also moving into the DSG space (S-tronic). Only a few older models (e.g. A4) remain on the CVT.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by graaja

I am now in my second dilemma. Earlier it was head saying Honda City, and heart saying Octavia. Now it is head saying 1.4TSI MT, heart saying 1.8TSI AT. Selecting a car is indeed a tough task!

Let me add a bit more confusion to the ongoing contemplation of car buying process.

1.8 TSi is a gem of a engine but the gearbox DSG DQ200 is now all old school and bogging the engine down. Its limiting the engine power since DQ200 upper limit is 250 Nm torque. 1.8 TSi(Skoda Laura) made 250 Nm torque and still makes the same on MQB but on a wider range. What is suggest is that the gearbox is limiting it. Also you have no further scope of any power increase via remap.

If you can live up with a MT and have no requirement for AT, pick a Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSi Active, splurge on a remap just out of showroom & leather seats. Remap could easily send power figures about 160+ Bhp and 310+ Nm, easily keeping up with a 1.8 TSi or better. Also 1.4 TSi has higher fuel average and with a light foot it could easily deliver 17+ Kmpl. Active variant has less gadget and lower chances of you heading to workshop. Another main thing people like is ACC, well I'm using both ACC on Vento & manual AC on Fiesta and I find manual AC better.

My pick still stands Octavia 1.4 TSi Active even though one has dough for 1.8 TSi. Practicality is important, with a win-win situation for both head & heart.

[graaja]

Had a very long discussion on the DSG issues with the Service Manager of the Skoda dealership here in Coimbatore. Looks like the SA had conveyed my concerns on the DSG issues and the SM called to clarify my doubts. Below are the excerpts from the conversation.

She accepted that there were issues with various elements like mechatronics and software of the 7 speed DSGs manufactured till 2011 or so. Recently they have made several corrections to the gearbox, mechatronics and especially the software to address the failures. She assured me that all the issues have been addressed and the DSG would be definitely reliable.

I raised a point that it is too early to decide that all the problems are gone. This will be known only after a couple of trouble-free years. She accepted this and told me that with the 2 years warranty and the extended warranty (that will soon be announced), the DSG is covered for 4 years. On the top of that, they are also replacing any faulty mechatronics units even outside the 4 years warranty upto 5 years and assured me that they will honor this even though this is not on paper.

She also accepted that the only issue is the time it takes to source the spares and the inconvenience this causes to their customers. After this conversation, following are my thoughts.

1. The attitude of Skoda dealers to customers is definitely improving (cant say if this is true with all dealers). They do care about customers.
2. There is still some risk in the DSG, but if you have a sincere and customer friendly dealership, you are covered.
3. Even if the dealers are helpful, sourcing spares is still time consuming and one should be prepared to wait for a couple of weeks for any major problems.
4. More than Skoda, the company, the attitude of the dealers is important in a peaceful ownership experience.

Things are definitely moving in the positive direction!

[graaja]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Let me add a bit more confusion to the ongoing contemplation of car buying process.

1.8 TSi is a gem of a engine but the gearbox DSG DQ200 is now all old school and bogging the engine down. Its limiting the engine power since DQ200 upper limit is 250 Nm torque. 1.8 TSi(Skoda Laura) made 250 Nm torque and still makes the same on MQB but on a wider range. What is suggest is that the gearbox is limiting it. Also you have no further scope of any power increase via remap.

If you can live up with a MT and have no requirement for AT, pick a Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSi Active, splurge on a remap just out of showroom & leather seats. Remap could easily send power figures about 160+ Bhp and 310+ Nm, easily keeping up with a 1.8 TSi or better. Also 1.4 TSi has higher fuel average and with a light foot it could easily deliver 17+ Kmpl. Active variant has less gadget and lower chances of you heading to workshop. Another main thing people like is ACC, well I'm using both ACC on Vento & manual AC on Fiesta and I find manual AC better.

My pick still stands Octavia 1.4 TSi Active even though one has dough for 1.8 TSi. Practicality is important, with a win-win situation for both head & heart.

You definitely add to the confusion But you sure have a very valid point to think about.

I am not very particular about AT (though it does have its convenience) and am perfectly open to an MT. The main reason I am considering 1.8TSI was the feedback I received about the turbo lag in the 1.4TSI being prominent below 2000RPM which would add some inconvenience during city driving.

I have not given any thoughts about remapping and have very limited knowledge on the process. There are several questions that come to my mind.

1. Does remapping involve just modifications to the ECU or will it require any modifications to the engine?
2. As remapping would void any warranty, I will have to wait 4 years before I could do any remapping, right?
3. Is there any known remapping solution for the 1.4TSI engine?
4. How much would it cost for remapping?

One more subject to research over the week end!