[sridhu]

Originally Posted by kritikesh

Hi could you advice which app you are currently using track the expenses.

I use "My Cars Fuel Logger". Pretty good & has export capability to XLS. The pro version also automatically backs up to Dropbox & gdrive.

[TallBoy]

I drive a Crysta Z, 2016 model, and am based out of Hyderabad.
I saw your posts about Crysta tyres and also about the navigation cards, and need some help about both.

[sridhu]

I have been remiss in updating this ownership report. However, trust me, I had good reasons!

Engine Replaced But Toyota Still Stiffed Me!!
I had an issue with the engine as mentioned here .

Turns out that it was a big deal. The dealer called me and told me that they would like to replace the engine. This was around the 50k service mark

Kudos to Toyota & Nandi Toyota for their proactive action.

However, I was a bit leery on taking them up on the offer.

So, as a first move I told them to replace the car as I did not think the factory fit/ finish can be achieved by any dealer. As I expected, they refused.

I countered with a more serious offer - I told them to take back the car and give me a lower version, a GX Auto. I told them that they will easily get the value of the GX in the resale and I will be happy that I have a new car. If there is any negative difference, I will pay them. If there is a positive difference, they can add some accessories for that value. Or, if they want, I was also willing to buy a Z Auto version provided they mount the 3 seater middle row and register with that.

They considered it for a couple of weeks and refused. I guess that involves the dealer alone whereas the warranty replacement of the engine is Toyota's headache.

Remember, all this was on whatsapp & voice calls

So I made a very reasonable demand:

1. Replace everything from the radiator fan to upto the drive shaft - the complete engine and gearbox, basically.
   
2. Extend the warranty on the car by 2 years as I had paid for the extended warranty and will be stuck if the car fails again in a similar time frame.

The manager handling this, Omkar, agreed to this. I was quite happy with that as I did not want the gearbox to be disassembled and if the engine-gearbox are replaced as a unit, I really dont have anything to worry about. The dealership is also happy as they are not replacing 'used' parts.

I specifically explained my rationale to Omkar. He agreed to its validity. He accepted that he will do it and took the car in.

Nandi Toyota very kindly gave me a Corolla Automatic as a loaner in this period.

3-4 days later, they called me and told me the new engine had arrived and asked me if I wanted to be there during the replacement. I said I will come there to check the engine out but did not see the point in being there when the engine was being replaced. (Perhaps a mistake). I took photos of the new engine and left. (See below)

Once they were done, I went back to pick up the car and they gave me an itemized list of all the parts that they replaced. That is when I found out that only the engine was replaced and the gearbox was opened and a few components overhauled and some others replaced.

I blew my stack saying that this is precisely what I did not want to happen. And I refused to pick up the car. After a couple days, the senior customer service manager assured me that he will take care of it and requested me to take the car and go. I did. This was most certainly a mistake.

The other issue of extending the warranty period by 2 years, I thought would be very easy for Toyota. After all, this was a new engine and their power & drive train are legendary for their reliability. Even I attest to it. So, I thought it would be a no brainer.

Very strangely, they refused that too! To be honest, I am shocked more by this betrayal than the other one, egregious though that one was too.
The litany of evasion started from there. Toyota & Nandi Toyota kept passing the buck.

My contention basically is that your manager promised me and went back on the promise. If he had not promised to replace the engine and the gearbox, I would not have agreed to the repair at all and would have, instead, insisted on a replacement.

They agreed that their manager had indeed promised it but now were choosing to ignore that promise.

The various service managers & customer satisfaction managers kept assuring that they will “take care of it. Don’t worry”. 55k & 60k services happened. The issue was not resolved but they kept saying they are talking to their management.

Finally I brought it to a head saying that they have to solve the issue one way or the other. I had 2 round table meetings with the dealership management. At the end of it and after taking a week to “discuss it internally” they dropped a mail to my wife (car in her name. I had been doing all the interaction with them from my phone & email!) saying that they will not do anything.
I sent a stinker saying that I am deeply dissatisfied to Toyota & Nandi Toyota which was roundly ignored.

Conclusion
Net-net, I think Toyota has screwed me and my unshaking confidence in both the product and their customer service has taken a major beating. I will hesitate to blindly recommend a Toyota or an Innova to anyone in future.
I don’t know if Toyota realizes that they have, in essence, lost a customer who had been loyal to them for more than 15 years.

I have now given up. But I think it is a Pyrrhic victory for them. I used to blindly buy Toyota. Never again!

The transactional customer service, I would agree, has been very good. But going back on a promised made by an authorized agent with no good reason and no recompense is very poor form on the part of Toyota.


Service receipts from engine replacement upto 70k


The Old Engine



55k Service + Engine Replacement





60K Service



65K Service


Battery Replacement


70k Service




Car statistics (Lifetime)




Tomorrow, the car is going for 75k service – basically because it has been sitting for 6 months. Battery is fine as I got a Bosch C3 charger. Highly recommended!

No major issues, that I can see!

[nagr22]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Engine Replaced But Toyota Still Stiffed Me!!
I had an issue with the engine as mentioned here .


Conclusion
Net-net, I think Toyota has screwed me and my unshaking confidence in both the product and their customer service has taken a major beating. I will hesitate to blindly recommend a Toyota or an Innova to anyone in future.
I don’t know if Toyota realizes that they have, in essence, lost a customer who had been loyal to them for more than 15 years.

I have now given up. But I think it is a Pyrrhic victory for them. I used to blindly buy Toyota. Never again!

The transactional customer service, I would agree, has been very good. But going back on a promised made by an authorized agent with no good reason and no recompense is very poor form on the part of Toyota.


Tomorrow, the car is going for 75k service – basically because it has been sitting for 6 months. Battery is fine as I got a Bosch C3 charger. Highly recommended!

No major issues, that I can see!

This is horrific!! By any chance, is it Nandi Toyota Whitefield branch? I stopped servicing from them since 2 years after they tried to con me by trying to sell a demo car by claiming it is a new one from yard. Thanks to team-bhp checklist I was able to find out their lie. Last week I took my car there (big mistake!) as it is the closest to my office and I didn't want to go to a far away Ravindu Toyota showroom to avoid waiting during service. The SA assigned to me was utterly incompetent to the point where he did 5 tyre rotation without swapping the spare steel wheel with alloy! When I pointed out, he told me it can't be done as my spare wheel is non alloy and he can't change it! After I patiently explained what needs to be done, he finally had the audacity to charge me 200Rs+GST extra for the 'additional repairs demanded by customer'

After I took delivery, I noticed that the Bluetooth calling issue which I had reported earlier was still there and the note on the service invoice said "Bluetooth issue reported by customer was not found". This made me furious because I personally replicated the issue in front of him and he even recorded a video in his phone. I escalated to his team lead and he said "sir this issue is found in all Yaris cars. That's why we wrote like that". I spoke back saying if it is there in all cars then ask Toyota to fix it! Why write lies in service report? He had no answer to this and I decided never to visit this dealership again. When I threatened I will write a mail to Toyota, he told me to please go ahead!

Last Friday I wrote a mail to Toyota customer care explaining the matter and promptly got a call from their Customer Relationship Manager. I explained the issue to him and after listening, he asked me "What is your background sir? Where do you work?". I asked why was it relevant and he said he just asked. He is yet to get back to me but I have a feeling they have closed the case. Now I know why the team lead was not worried about my threats to send an email.

This brings me to the question of Toyota India's service quality and customer care values. I have read elsewhere in the forum that Tata and Ford both simply forward customer complaints to the dealers even if the complaint is about the dealership itself! I can see even Toyota is doing the same and this was unexpected for me. Of late I am also reading in social media about inflated service bills by Toyota dealerships and the numerous cases of airbag not deployed in Fortuners. I am a lifelong fan of Toyota and I am slowly losing it and might not buy one again.

So, is the overall quality of Toyota in India on the decline? Are other Toyota users too facing issues like bad quality, inflated bills etc? Are these one off events or is it happening frequently?

@mods, I request you to please start a new thread about this engine failure issue and the case of cheating by the dealer, so that other users can share their bad experiences with Toyota dealers if any.

[revvharder]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Net-net, I think Toyota has screwed me and my unshaking confidence in both the product and their customer service has taken a major beating. I will hesitate to blindly recommend a Toyota or an Innova to anyone in future.
I don’t know if Toyota realizes that they have, in essence, lost a customer who had been loyal to them for more than 15 years.

Well the experience with Toyota is rather appalling, they should fulfill their promise rather than dusting off their hands.

You handled the engine replacement issue really well but the only loose end you left was an official mail from them covering the aspects you mentioned and they could've not dusted off their hands this easily.

[WhiteSierra]

Originally Posted by sridhu

I have been remiss in updating this ownership report. However, trust me, I had good reasons!

Engine Replaced But Toyota Still Stiffed Me!!
I had an issue with the engine as mentioned here .

Turns out that it was a big deal. The dealer called me and told me that they would like to replace the engine. This was around the 50k service mark

Kudos to Toyota & Nandi Toyota for their proactive action.

I still did not understand why the Engine had to be replaced at just 50k kms! Is it only due to extra sound and harshness or were there any other issues?

Was there any engine oil consumption, low pick up, white smoke from exhaust or any back pressure? Did they do any compression test and give you any report on health of each cylinder? You also mentioned that your mileage is about 10-11 kmpl, which is good.

I'm shocked on reading your post. Our Qualis did 4,23,000 kms , still on original engine, Innova did 1,70,000 kms, still on original engine, and our Crysta recently did 40 k kms. I'm very paranoid about my crysta's engine now! Mine is not from the initial 2016 batch though, mine is 2018 Gx MT. I'm wondering if there's any yardstick to know the condition of engine apart from compression tests on each cylinder and visible issues like oil consumption, back pressure, white smoke, etc which happen to diesel cars when engines start giving up. What is the decibel rating of your Innova's engine vs Normal Innova's engine? I'll get mine tested soon. Thanks for your post, now my OCD is kicking me to get my car checked asap.

Glad to see Toyota offering a new Brand Engine+Gearbox and giving 2 more years of warranty and a loaner car instead of simply rebuilding it. Had it been some other manufacturer, they would make you run from pillar to post to get the issue solved.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by sridhu

I have now given up. But I think it is a Pyrrhic victory for them. I used to blindly buy Toyota. Never again!

Why have they mentioned partial engine assembly? Do note use of "engine gaskets" and "partial engine assembly". Does it mean only half engine was changed, while components like head etc were reused? The old engine's pic you have posted, did you check its engine number?

Regards,
Shashi

[WhiteSierra]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Why have they mentioned partial engine assembly? Do note use of "engine gaskets" and "partial engine assembly". Does it mean only half engine was changed, while components like head etc were reused? The old engine's pic you have posted, did you check its engine number?

Regards,
Shashi

I too wanted to ask the same question, but on seeing the full engine in the above picture, I thought complete engine block + head has been changed. But in the bill, it was mentioned as just "Partial Engine assembly" meaning just the engine block.

Originally Posted by nagr22

So, is the overall quality of Toyota in India on the decline? Are other Toyota users too facing issues like bad quality, inflated bills etc? Are these one off events or is it happening frequently?

I honestly think this is a one off issue, We have 3 Toyotas and every service has been top notch, I can't comment on all the dealers, but folks at Harsha Toyota, Hyderabad are very competent and genuine. They never over charged me, never tried to sell unwanted services. I blindly trust Toyota for its bulletproof reliability, and I really hope this is a one-off situation.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by sridhu

The transactional customer service, I would agree, has been very good. But going back on a promised made by an authorized agent with no good reason and no recompense is very poor form on the part of Toyota.

It is not very clear what happened even after going back and reading your post on excessive noise from the engine. Did the engine seize?

As long as we do not have a lemon law, there is little in terms of Support from the consumer court side. That said, to me it feels Toyota did okay with your case. To get an engine replaced on a car that has clocked over 50,000km and then expect them to replace everything beyond the radiator, there needs to be some justification there. I can understand if there was a serious defect with the entire car that would warrant a full vehicle replacement but that does appear to be the case, or, I have not read your case in its entirety. I'll admit that an extended vehicle warranty should have been offered so that should have been handled better by Toyota.

Considering they called you to be present while the engine was being installed, I feel there was some transparency on the table. For everything else that they said they would do, that should have been in writing. I am trying to think how this case would have been handled had it been another manufacturer. We've read enough cases where brand new cars fall apart and we struggle with support from the dealer & manufacturer.

The engine series used on your car has a proven track record of running well over 500,000km before it requires attention of any kind. That is how reliable it is. I am not sure if there is any vehicle out there that can give you the sort of reliability a Toyota can.

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by WhiteSierra

I still did not understand why the Engine had to be replaced at just 50k kms! Is it only due to extra sound and harshness or were there any other issues?

Was there any engine oil consumption, low pick up, white smoke from exhaust or any back pressure? Did they do any compression test and give you any report on health of each cylinder? You also mentioned that your mileage is about 10-11 kmpl, which is good.
...

Glad to see Toyota offering a new Brand Engine+Gearbox and giving 2 more years of warranty and a loaner car instead of simply rebuilding it. Had it been some other manufacturer, they would make you run from pillar to post to get the issue solved.

Was noisy and running rough. No seizing. I do not know the compression test output as those were not shared with me.

They did NOT replace the engine + gearbox. Just the engine. The contention is that they should have replaced both as promised to me.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Why have they mentioned partial engine assembly? Do note use of "engine gaskets" and "partial engine assembly". Does it mean only half engine was changed, while components like head etc were reused? The old engine's pic you have posted, did you check its engine number?

Engine number is a sham. The new engine comes with a blank space where they stamped the old number back. They replaced the entire engine. I also asked about the gaskets but do not remember the answer now. At that time it was convincing!

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

It is not very clear what happened even after going back and reading your post on excessive noise from the engine. Did the engine seize?

... To get an engine replaced on a car that has clocked over 50,000km and then expect them to replace everything beyond the radiator, there needs to be some justification there. I can understand if there was a serious defect with the entire car that would warrant a full vehicle replacement but that does appear to be the case, or, I have not read your case in its entirety. I'll admit that an extended vehicle warranty should have been offered so that should have been handled better by Toyota.
...

The engine series used on your car has a proven track record of running well over 500,000km before it requires attention of any kind. That is how reliable it is. I am not sure if there is any vehicle out there that can give you the sort of reliability a Toyota can.

Mostly I agree.

My issue was that Toyota, via their dealer manager, promised that both the engine & gearbox will be replaced and went back on the promise without telling me. Otherwise I am fine with their transparency. I have in fact mentioned this in this update.

I seriously think I would have opted for a trade-in rather than an engine swap if this was told to me up front. If you read my ownership history, you will notice that the issue seems to have cropped up between 35-40k km.

I had the older Innova which did approx 2.25 lac kms in 10 years. So I do know that Toyota is reliable. That is the reason I purchased it. That is the precise reason why an engine failing at 50k kms was so shocking & unacceptable to me.

While I would tend to agree that this is probably not a systemic issue, I have been noticing that the ownership of the Crysta has not been as trouble free as the earlier Innova. Even before this I have made the observation in my ownership history that they seem to be cutting corners.

Someone asked: this was at Nandi Toyota, Kudlu Gate. I have had very good service experience there over the years. No real complaints there.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Engine number is a sham. The new engine comes with a blank space where they stamped the old number back. They replaced the entire engine. I also asked about the gaskets but do not remember the answer now. At that time it was convincing!

Not sure what system Toyota has, but it should be the same across manufacturers IMO. In Maruti, they have blank space left if you purchase only block, and in case of half engine(block+pistons+crankshaft installed) or full engines, they have engine number punched from factory.

Only block with blank:



Half engine with number punched:



Anyways, if you are convinced then my suspicion doesn't matter. Wishing you lots of trouble-free miles ahead with the new heart.

Regards,
Shashi

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by sridhu

If you read my ownership history, you will notice that the issue seems to have cropped up between 35-40k km.

Just did. There is definitely some critical components that have had premature wear. Not normal for this engine. Reading about how they handled it, I thought it was quite professional (Omkar) and to bring it to your attention before anything worse could happen.

Assuming they have given you an all new engine, I am not sure what more can be asked or done by Toyota. It looks like you've run a good 15,000km and all is well post the replacement.

I know little about how the Crysta stacks up against the old Innova. All I can say is, these Toyota's are made to run forever.

[knrn]

Hi sridhu. As I have commented previously also, yours is the reference thread on Innova crysta in this forum. I have been following your thread closely since beginning. You have taken very good care of your vehicle.

All I will say is that reading all that has happened breaks my heart, not to mention shake my confidence in the Toyota brand. My best wishes to you brother and may now you have a trouble free experience. Take care.

[Sree73]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Engine number is a sham. The new engine comes with a blank space where they stamped the old number back. They replaced the entire engine. I also asked about the gaskets but do not remember the answer now. At that time it was convincing!

How an engine (Complete engine) can leave the manufacturing facility without an engine number? Is that possible?

What I believe is that for an engine to move out of manufacturing facility, it need to be identified with a unique engine number. Sorry If I'm wrong.

[SideView]

Originally Posted by WhiteSierra

Glad to see Toyota offering a new Brand Engine+Gearbox and giving 2 more years of warranty and a loaner car instead of simply rebuilding it. Had it been some other manufacturer, they would make you run from pillar to post to get the issue solved.

You missed the full post, they went back on their promise of the new gearbox and extended warranty.(read the bottom half of his post)

I also doubt based on the bill if engine has been replaced or it is just a overhaul.

Shame on you Toyota. Mistake on OP part that he did not get it confirmed by official mail.

Mod/sridhu: Please update the thread title or create a separate thread highlighting this issue. Lets not keep any manufacturer on a pedastal. This is a grave issue and needs to be highlighted so other owners are aware