[bhavik.1991]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Like I said my statement was made on theoretical comparison. It is interesting to know that 10% is making so much of a difference

I checked the Kerb Weight of the different Honda cars and they all seem to be in the same range:

S-Cross : 1240 kg
BR-V : 1300 kg
WR-V : 1204 kg
City : 1170 kg

I guess Honda has tuned the iDTEC Engine much better than what Maruti has done with the FIAT engine...or is it the Soft Hybrid feature which is causing this?

I think Maruti tampers 1.3MJD tuning with each launch. While 1.3MJD is NO hoot, I find it adequate for Brezza however it felt really lousy on S-Cross & Ciaz couple of years back. Things got worse after the introduction of SHVS on the vehicles. (These are my personal observations)

[vsrivatsa]

There seems to be another chink in the armour related to the 1.3 DDIS Engine - there is not much of a roadmap for this engine:

I found two articles both of which states that this engine would be phased out with the introduction of BS 6 standard (2020 ?)

Maruti 1.3 Diesel Engine To Be Phased Out Due To BS6 - Link

Fiat’s 1.3 Multijet diesel to bow out by end of decade - Link

This is yet another aspect to keep in mind which would have a potential impact on the resale value of the car and maintenance costs post 2020.

[gururajrv]

Wolf moto has switchable maps for 1.3 Scross owners. Time to rejoice

Source: Wolf

PS:
Dr Naren will now be eager to push Wolf for switchable for 1.6

[laluks]

Been driving around this guy for a month now

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by laluks

Been driving around this guy for a month now
Attachment 1699111

Great snap of an equally great car. A few answers please, how is the drive with the 1.3? Any changes in engine response compared to non-SHVS one if you've driven any of them? How is the driving dynamics considering there is a slight change in GC?

[laluks]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

Great snap of an equally great car. A few answers please, how is the drive with the 1.3? Any changes in engine response compared to non-SHVS one if you've driven any of them? How is the driving dynamics considering there is a slight change in GC?

This is the first time I have driven our national engine, so cannot make any comparisons. Usable torque in city traffic, comfortable highway driving, and was pretty good at hills. I took him to Meghamalai, where there was no roads. Did what a car must do. Sc surprised me, so to say. I like the overall package, and ticks my usage.

Review will come up shortly

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

There seems to be another chink in the armour related to the 1.3 DDIS Engine - there is not much of a roadmap for this engine:

This is yet another aspect to keep in mind which would have a potential impact on the resale value of the car and maintenance costs post 2020.

True that. But this is not an exclusive Scross problem. This is a national problem as Maruti, Tata, Chevrolet, Fiat and few more companies use this engine. So resale value of at least 12 cars may hit rock bottom in 3 years from now.

[dash]

I did a TD of S-Cross yesterday and should say I really liked the interiors + exteriors of the car enough to stop making a eco-sport booking

But the BS4 engine (practically no resale value after Apr2019, not too faraway) and not much of peppy 1.3 engine dampened my excitement. More importantly knowing there is a 1.5L BS6 engine coming, I cant see how to force myself to this buy in current avatar.

Question is, when is that 1.5L engine coming? Is it like endof 2018 since the facelift version is pretty new. Another version doesnt make sense to be released in 3-4 months.

I have sent a enquiry to MSIL on their fate of the current 1.3 engine. Hope to hear some thing constructive from them soon.

Maruti 1.3 Diesel Engine To Be Phased Out Due To BS6 - Link

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by dash

But the BS4 engine (practically no resale value after Apr2019, not too faraway) ...

Why would discontinuation of an engine would lead to no resale value? As long as it runs well and is supported by well supplied spares, what difference would it make if it is replaced by a newer engine?

I think WagonR, swift etc underwent a couple of engine changes. Still their resale value remains far more than 'practically zero'.

[dash]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

As long as it runs well and is supported by well supplied spares, what difference would it make if it is replaced by a newer engine?

Hmm. good point. From a used-car buyer perspective, there would be more options/questions w.r.t more electric cars on horizon, possible Govt./SC interventions on polluting BS4 engines if situation happens like Delhi this year and may be bandwidth issue with MSIL/others since they would have had to upgrade large fleet of models to newer engines. Clearly the movement is away from polluting fossil fuel engine right

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by amiya.c

IMHO the facelift is a well done job by Maruti, the car looks smashing and stands out in the crowd.
The only downer is the engine, it is adequate when you are alone and driving in a sedate manner.

Would have loved to see Maruti work on a 1.4 k series Turbojet for this car along with the facelift.

Completely agree with this, went for a 500km ride with 4 passengers with my feather weight swift, and lack of power was properly felt! Swift never feels slow while I use it for solo drives, but added weight points to the obvious lack of displacement when compared with 1.5L units.

Hope Maruti launches the bigger unit soon.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by dash

Hmm. good point. From a used-car buyer perspective, there would be more options/questions w.r.t more electric cars on horizon, possible Govt./SC interventions on polluting BS4 engines if situation happens like Delhi this year and may be bandwidth issue with MSIL/others since they would have had to upgrade large fleet of models to newer engines. Clearly the movement is away from polluting fossil fuel engine right

I don't believe the value would become near zero. The depreciation would be higher than normal as there is more awareness today in the general public than there was earlier.

Also, in this case, there is a change of brand as well since Maruti plans to replace the Fiat engine with its own Suzuki based BS6 Diesel engine. Given that Maruti is getting rid of the Fiat Engine - how they will manage to support it post 2020 is another open question.

On the positive side, Maruti has launched good Extended Warranty Schemes recently that covers the vehicles for 5 years/1 Lakh kms. So, anyone buying a car with the 1.3 DDIS Engine should take up this 5 year / 1 Lakh warranty so that they are covered till 2022.

Another thing that may happen is - there also a expectation for Diesel powered cars to become more expensive due to the rules applied as part of BS6. As a result there is also a slight chance that people may look toward the pre-owned market for less expensive pre-BS6 engines that would appear to be more affordable thus improving the re-sale opportunity.

[ashis89]

Once the new emission norms are implemented, they would apply to all the new cars being produced and sold. They will not have any impact on the resale value of old cars when we consider from emission point of view.

As in the past, Govt. will never phase out the older vehicles. And even if they do in certain areas, these vehicles will continue to ply in rest of the country without any hindrance.

A quick search in any of the used car portal will show that popular models like Innova, WagonR, Santro, etc command very good resale even today irrespective of their emission variant and the value is dependent on the age/condition of the vehicle. This trend will continue beyond 2020 unless Govt. pops in a surprise (least likely).

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by ashis89

when we consider from emission point of view.

Agree - your point is very precise. When we consider from emission point of view the impact on resale value could be less. But in this case the DDIS 1.3 becomes a discontinued engine. Maruti has said they will move away from FIAT and stop using this engine altogether and hence there will be an impact due to this aspect. The article shared earlier clearly states that the engine will be phased out in India not just by Maruti but it won't be used by any other car maker either.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Agree - your point is very precise. When we consider from emission point of view the impact on resale value could be less. But in this case the DDIS 1.3 becomes a discontinued engine. Maruti has said they will move away from FIAT and stop using this engine altogether and hence there will be an impact due to this aspect. The article shared earlier clearly states that the engine will be phased out in India not just by Maruti but it won't be used by any other car maker either.

The engine used in Innova or Alto/800 or Zen or WagonR (1.1L F10D) or Santro or the 2L IDI engine in TATA or some of the Mahindra engines, are all discontinued. But since these vehicles sold in good numbers, the spares are available easily and the FNGs know how to service these vehicles. Thus, all is well for the current and future owners of such vehicles.

The way it is being portrayed here, owners of newer vehicles will be left high and dry, which is not the case. Just like a car depreciates a bit when a new refresh model is launched, the current gen cars would suffer a similar (small) hit when a generation of engines are released.

Some of us might hunt around for older cars just because they performed better. For example, people missed the G13 powered Swift when the K12 was launched.