[vivprasad]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

All in all, folks impressed, he he

Me too, there was a load of relatives come to attend a wedding in the family, and they were all impressed...its a great car to have

[SX4LOVER]

load it to the brim and enjoy the ride...SX4 is the greatest car to have come out of maruti stable!

[mrwalker]

Originally Posted by siddutta

what is average you get on your SX4?

Just finished the first full-tank post first service, using the full-to-full method, did 456 kms in 41 ltrs giving and average of 11.1 kmpl. This was under the following conditions:
- All within Pune city traffic, no highway runs
- All with ACC fully on, not possible to state exactly how long the compressor was on, but the set temp was always a few degrees below external temp
- 80%: Me alone going home-office and back in mix of medium, slow and crawling B2B traffic
- 15%: Me, wife and kids travelling within city
- 5%: Full load of 6 ppl + full trunk as described before
- My driving style is neither sedate FE-enhancing nor a mad rush but driving at the best speed possible with quick starts
- Similar conditions I have got 13.5-14 kmpl from the WagonR, so 11.1 kmpl on a much heavier and larger CC vehicle seems pretty good, though I would be happier if it was 12!!

Originally Posted by mrwalker

Have noticed that in 4th gear, the power surge is at 1,500 rpm, unlike the 2,000 odd rpm in 2nd and 3rd. Is this a feature of VVT?

Am constantly surprised by the performance in 4th gear after 2nd and 3rd, any tech expert can confirm why?

Forgot to mention that the gearbox notchiness is going down with use..

Originally Posted by vivprasad

Me too, there was a load of relatives come to attend a wedding in the family, and they were all impressed...its a great car to have

Originally Posted by SX4LOVER

load it to the brim and enjoy the ride...SX4 is the greatest car to have come out of maruti stable!

Yes folks enjoy the car and yes in the sedan class I think this one is the best from MS...

[Fornax]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

...did 456 kms in 41 ltrs giving and average of 11.1 kmpl. ...

Well that's about 70 kms more in 2 litres less than what I did, but guess who had more fun

[mrwalker]

Back from a long break, several updates to share...

Originally Posted by mrwalker

Just finished the first full-tank post first service, using the full-to-full method, did 456 kms in 41 ltrs giving and average of 11.1 kmpl. This was under the following conditions:
- All within Pune city traffic, no highway runs
- All with ACC fully on, not possible to state exactly how long the compressor was on, but the set temp was always a few degrees below external temp
- 80%: Me alone going home-office and back in mix of medium, slow and crawling B2B traffic
- 15%: Me, wife and kids travelling within city
- 5%: Full load of 6 ppl + full trunk as described before
- My driving style is neither sedate FE-enhancing nor a mad rush but driving at the best speed possible with quick starts

Based on the same in-city driving conditions as described previously, but without the full load test (6 people + full boot) am getting fairly consistent FE of around 11.4 kmpl for in-city driving.

Took a couple of longish drives.

First was Pune - Pachgani. Approx 220 kms roundtrip, approx 180 kms of which is on NH4 towards/ from Bangalore. Of this 180kms, there is one up and down ghat while going which is one-way only. After NH4 you get a typical minor 2 lane state highway followed by one long ghat (Pasarni) that is two-way.

Was driving a little quickly as was alone and the SX4 performance on the highway and ghat was quite good, as long as you kept it in the 2K+ rpm range. Both the highway and the ghats were reasonably packed with taxis, buses and goods carriers
While going: Depart Fri 4 pm, arrive 5:45 pm
While coming back: Depart Sat 4:10 pm, arrive 5:40 pm

Though the A-pillar was a serious pain while navigating right hand turns on the ghat...

All the driving fun was compensated by the FE figure achieved for a full tank run of 516 kms on 41.7 ltrs resulting in a FE of ~ 12.4 kmpl. Of course the rest of the driven distance of approx 295 kms, i.e. around 55%, was the usual within city commute as described above.

The second drive was Pune - Alibag via Expressway and Pen Connector. Roundtrip around 300 kms, around 1/3rd of that on Pune - Mumbai expressway, rest on typical 2 lane state highways/ minor roads. This time with family so was driving relatively sedately, 3.5 hrs each way, including around 40 mins in stops. The boot did its usual luggage-swallowing job with a pram, 2 bags with toys, one large backpack and one strolley going in, with room to spare.

On the expressway took it to 140 kmph without any problems, though I felt that above 120 kmph the steering becomes a bit 'weightless', possibly because I'm still on the stock tyres. Other worrying factor was that at 120 kmph strong sideways gusts caused the car to move a bit, wasn't expecting that on a heavy car like this! Will post FE figures for this full tank once completed.

Couple of niggles
- Front passenger seat belt is stuck in the fully retracted position. Any quick fix for this?
- Isolated the earlier smoke smell in the car as coming from outside, though this is when all windows are closed and the ACC is on re-circulate mode. Need to get this checked...

[mrwalker]

Forgot to add
- Gear shift has become a bit notchy again, had become relatively smooth after the 1st service
- Rear doors squeak and groan a bit when opened, insufficient greasing?

Also got a a few scratches yesterday evening from a motocyclist who couldn't see/ avoid a large stationary silver coloured vehicle. Luckily was entirely on the rear bumper plastic, missing the metal sheet by a couple of inches!

Went home, cleaned it along the scratch with water, getting rid of 50% of the scratch. Didn't have a Scratch/ Swirl Remover/ Rubbing Compound so gave it some liquid Turtle Wax and a lot of elbow grease (first along and then across the scratches) and now its 95% gone!!

Must say the paint quality is quite good as the hit was hard enough to pop the plastic bumper out of position along the edges, a smart rap there and it was back in place...

[mrwalker]

Originally Posted by mrwalker

The second drive was Pune - Alibag via Expressway and Pen Connector. Roundtrip around 300 kms, around 1/3rd of that on Pune - Mumbai expressway, rest on typical 2 lane state highways/ minor roads. This time with family so was driving relatively sedately, 3.5 hrs each way, including around 40 mins in stops. The boot did its usual luggage-swallowing job with a pram, 2 bags with toys, one large backpack and one strolley going in, with room to spare.

On the expressway took it to 140 kmph without any problems, though I felt that above 120 kmph the steering becomes a bit 'weightless', possibly because I'm still on the stock tyres. Other worrying factor was that at 120 kmph strong sideways gusts caused the car to move a bit, wasn't expecting that on a heavy car like this! Will post FE figures for this full tank once completed.

Finished the tank from the Alibag run, 507 kms on 43 ltrs giving FE of approx 11.8 kmpl. Note that of this around 200 kms (i.e. 40%) was typical in-city driving. Of course this doesn't factor in that the car was idling for around 1 hour in total during stops while going and back, as it was too hot outside to take the baby out.

Trying to factor this in as follows
- Idling RPM, with ACC on is 700 rpm
- Extrapolating from 3rd gear speeds at 1400 and 2100 rpm, 700 rpm in 3rd gear would, logically, give 17 kmph
- Similar extrapolation from 4th gear speeds gives us 23 kmph at 700 rpm in 4th gear
- Averaging the two (3rd and 4th), the vehicle would have travelled, on average 20 kms more

Adding this 20 kms, we get 527 kms in 43 ltrs = 12.25 kmpl. Still not as good as the Pachgani figures, even though that involved some serious ghats and fast driving, possibly because
- Heavier load of people and luggage
- Extremely hot outside so the ACC would have consumed more of the engine's power

Originally Posted by mrwalker

Couple of niggles
- Front passenger seat belt is stuck in the fully retracted position. Any quick fix for this?

Got this fixed fairly quickly and at no charge at MyCar, also assured that this is covered under warranty in case anyone else has this issue...

[mrwalker]

Running Costs:
- FE was always in the 11-12 kmpl range including both in-city and mixed city and highway runs
- However in the beginning of last month I saw the lowest FE of 10.5 kmpl in city and another just scraping 11 kmpl in a mixed city and highway run (expressway to Mumbai)
- Thinking about it, the main difference was that Pune temps were very high (40 deg C+) during that period. This would cause the ACC to consume more power at the same setting
- Now that the temps have come down a bit, am again back to 11+ kmpl in city
- No other costs apart from the first service as described earlier, looking good!


Suggestions to Maruti Suzuki:
Based on the experience so far would like to make the following suggestions. Am limiting myself to those that would not make a big difference to the direct cost of producing the car.

Of course some of these would require re-design, re-tooling and re-testing so there would be indirect costs.

Must Do:
1. Please fix the gear ratios
- Haven't faced problems with 1st gear (apart from occasional stalls) but other folks have reported an inability to make steep climbs when fully loaded.
- 2nd and 3rd gear ratios are just too high. Changing from 1st to 2nd requires very careful clutch release, unless you want a sudden slump in power.
- Overtaking that should be done in 3rd often requires downshifting to 2nd
- Uphill stretches that should be comfotably done in 3rd/ 2nd often require downshifting to 1st/ 2md respectively
- As a result driving requires more effort than necessary and the FE is also poorer as we spend time pushing the engine in lower-than-necessary gears to do this
- Please try to get away from maximising the ARAI certified FE figures and tune it to real life driving, I'm sure you'll improve both FE and driveability
- 4th gear is exceptional, absolutely no complaints here
- 5th gear is a tiny bit underpowered but nothing to complain about

2. Tyres on ZXi
- The extra width from VXi to ZXi (195 to 205 mm) is not really necessary. Also a little strange that we get decent Bridgestones on the VXi vs strictly OK JKs on the ZXi
- Why not keep 195 mms on the ZXi and use the extra cash to get a better set of tyres. Continental CPC2 seems to be the favourite
- The weightless handling around 120 kmph, tyre noise and ride could all be improved by this change

Should Do:

1. A-pillar width
- The A-pillar is a nuisance in city traffic and an absolute danger in ghats
- Slimming it down and maybe eliminating the fixed quarter glass section would be really great.

2. Smoother gearshift
- The gear shift is notchy and that coupled with the poor lower ratios making city driving a tiresome excercise

3. Lumbar support
- While this may be a little specific to me (with a lower back problem) we could really do with lumbar support in both front and rear seats
- A lumbar support adjustment in the front seats would be nice but not essential

4. Rear seat changes
- The rear seat width is OK but the position is a little too close to the rear door hinge for easy ingress
- Also if there is a tall guy in front an average height guy can't sit in the seat behind him comfortably
- Solution to both the above is to move the rear seat bench backwards by 1-2 inches
- There is sufficient space available behind the headrest and in terms of height to make this move
- Of course this would shave some litres off the boot space but there is enough to spare there
- The foldable armrest and centre seat is still not entirely comfortable when folded, for the 3rd person
- Lastly the rear seat back should be foldable, I know the boot is huge but have got stuck twice with long flat luggage which just cannot be fit in the boot


Anything I have missed? And I do mean stuff that can be added with not too much increase in direct costs, so a rear disc brake or cruise control is out!

[Dr.AD]

Mrwalker, very good report and very good suggestions for improvements. I have been reading your post since beginning and you have overall provided very honest and useful (to prospective buyers) feedback throughout your thread. Thanks!

Originally Posted by mrwalker

2. Tyres on ZXi
- The extra width from VXi to ZXi (195 to 205 mm) is not really necessary. Also a little strange that we get decent Bridgestones on the VXi vs strictly OK JKs on the ZXi
- Why not keep 195 mms on the ZXi and use the extra cash to get a better set of tyres. Continental CPC2 seems to be the favourite

This is a very interesting suggestion on tyres for ZXi. Many people here have complained about JK Vectras on ZXi, and apparently cost of changing those tyres to Michelin LC is pretty high. So your suggestion of reducing the width to 195mm and giving better tyres in the same cost really makes sense. But this raises an interesting question that maybe tyre experts can answer: Is it better to have relatively bad tyres with more width or it is better to have relatively good tyres but with reduced width?

I wonder if any other ZXi owner has considered reducing width to 195mm while "upgrading" their tyres, assuming this gives significant cost advantage over 205mm (is this assumption true, by the way?) and does not lose grip that much.

Also, I wonder if people really think 205mm is required on SX4? What would be lost by going to 195mm? Any explanations from tyre experts and SX4 owners will be very useful here.

- The weightless handling around 120 kmph, tyre noise and ride could all be improved by this change

Is the "weightless handling around 120 kmph" as you mentioned, really that bad? How bad is it? I have read about it many times and I am wondering if this is a minor issue or a serious flaw in handling of SX4? Unfortunately, in all my test drives (through Bangalore city), I could not exceed the speed beyond 80 km/h, so I could never experience the handling (and also the notorious tyre noise from JK) at high speeds.

Thanks,
-AD

[mrwalker]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

Mrwalker, very good report and very good suggestions for improvements. I have been reading your post since beginning and you have overall provided very honest and useful (to prospective buyers) feedback throughout your thread. Thanks!

Thanks for the kind words!

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

Is it better to have relatively bad tyres with more width or it is better to have relatively good tyres but with reduced width?
Also, I wonder if people really think 205mm is required on SX4? What would be lost by going to 195mm? Any explanations from tyre experts and SX4 owners will be very useful here.

Actually I'm no tyre expert, am primarily basing this suggestion on the feedback from the tyre expert on team-bhp, at the following posts. (Though he may be a bit miffed with me as I didn't take his suggestion while replacing my ageing WagonR tyres )

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

The ER300 tyres that come OEM with the VXi model is waaaaaaay better than the JK which comes on the "premium model".

If you get an SX4 VXi, you dont need to change the tyres at all! The BS ER300 are superb tyres. Unfortunately, they come only on 2 cars. The SX4 and the Altis.

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Well, it is over tyred. But then if you want 16", you cannot get anything smaller than 205. For some reason in India, the bigger the rim, the more bragging rights you have.

In this case, with the SX4 being a sort of crossover car, I think the Ground clearance is very high. And you would have to give it to 16" rims and high profile tyres. The ride quality in this car is not dependant on the tyres. 205/60 is a very high profile tyre. 123mm of rubber in the sidewall is quite a lot. And in 16", this is pretty much the only option.

If you gave it 15", then you are stuck with 195/65 R15 as the maximum size(VXi SX4).

Ideally though, I agree that 195 section tyres is more than enough.

You can click thru to read the entire thread above.

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

I wonder if any other ZXi owner has considered reducing width to 195mm while "upgrading" their tyres, assuming this gives significant cost advantage over 205mm (is this assumption true, by the way?) and does not lose grip that much.

Again with the caveat that I'm no tyre expert I think that would be because as Nikhil has mentioned above, for the 16" alloy wheels, 205 mm is the smallest width available. And changing the alloys as well would be expensive and introduce speedo errors.

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

Is the "weightless handling around 120 kmph" as you mentioned, really that bad? How bad is it? I have read about it many times and I am wondering if this is a minor issue or a serious flaw in handling of SX4? Unfortunately, in all my test drives (through Bangalore city), I could not exceed the speed beyond 80 km/h, so I could never experience the handling (and also the notorious tyre noise from JK) at high speeds.

Well I too could never hit anything more than 60-80 kmph in-city and only faced this problem on the expressway to Mumbai. At 120 its very controllable but a little nervous, at 140 kmph you are IMHO skating at the edge of danger.

I have experienced the tyre noise at as low as 60-80 kmph but on cement roads. If you have any such cement roads in Bangalore that allow you to reach 60 kmph plus just roll down the window and hear them roar!

[Fornax]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

...
Is the "weightless handling around 120 kmph" as you mentioned, really that bad? How bad is it? I have read about it many times and I am wondering if this is a minor issue or a serious flaw in handling of SX4? Unfortunately, in all my test drives (through Bangalore city), I could not exceed the speed beyond 80 km/h, so I could never experience the handling...
...

Ask me - I've hit 160 kmph on the mumbai pune speedway, and I was driving with my wife and a year old daughter. If I'd felt the slightest bit of unease, I'd never have reached there.

Although I'd never recommend anyone to speed on Indian roads, I can say with confidence, that the SX4 will not make you nervous even at that speed.

[Dr.AD]

Originally Posted by Fornax

Ask me - I've hit 160 kmph on the mumbai pune speedway, and I was driving with my wife and a year old daughter. If I'd felt the slightest bit of unease, I'd never have reached there.

Although I'd never recommend anyone to speed on Indian roads, I can say with confidence, that the SX4 will not make you nervous even at that speed.

Great to know this. Thanks for the clarification. By the way, this is with stock tyre (JK) or have you upgraded your tyres? What are your thoughts about need to upgrade the tyres?

I have another question to all SX4-ZXi owners: Somewhere (ACC thread in "Technical Stuff" here) somebody mentioned that ACC comes with Auto Defrost Mode. I have not noticed any such Auto Defrost Mode in the SX4. Have you guys noticed this? Or is this there by default? Basically have you noticed that something is working to clear the mist on the windscreen and preventing mist formation?

mrwalker and fornax, can you please post your experiences with ACC and the defrost mode?

Thanks,
-AD

[Fornax]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

...By the way, this is with stock tyre (JK) or have you upgraded your tyres? What are your thoughts about need to upgrade the tyres?...

I'was running the stock tyres, although an upgrade is on the cards. But don't plan to do it untill I have about 20K on them. No point in throwing away perfectly well grooved brand new tyres - atleast I dont see much additional benefit in doing so.

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

...Basically have you noticed that something is working to clear the mist on the windscreen and preventing mist formation?...

The auto-defrost mode does not have anything to do with the ACC. There are three features that help do it i.) The fine electrically charged lines in the rear prevent the rear glass from fogging, ii.) there is a fresh-air mode in the ACC that will balance out the moisture inside thus preventing misting of side and front glass and lastly iii.) You can point the ACC towards the front wind-screen thereby removing any mist (fog) that may have accumulated.

Also, I'm not 100% about this, but turning on the heater intermittently might also help.

[Dr.AD]

Originally Posted by Fornax

The auto-defrost mode does not have anything to do with the ACC. There are three features that help do it i.) The fine electrically charged lines in the rear prevent the rear glass from fogging, ii.) there is a fresh-air mode in the ACC that will balance out the moisture inside thus preventing misting of side and front glass and lastly iii.) You can point the ACC towards the front wind-screen thereby removing any mist (fog) that may have accumulated.

Also, I'm not 100% about this, but turning on the heater intermittently might also help.

Thanks for your reply, but I guess I did not make my question very clear. I know well of these features such as electrical lines (heaters) is rear glass and other features/tricks you mentioned which we have in all cars. However, someone in the ACC thread in "Technical Stuff" mentioned that ACC mechanism works beyond this. It has some sensors to detect frosting/misting on windshields, and if it detects that, it automatically changes the vent positions and air mixture to eliminate the mist. I have used many cars with ACC in the past but never realized that there are sensors for detecting misting on glass, and found it quite surprising. Therefore, I was asking SX4 owners if they are aware of any such special feature of ACC that is specifically designed to eliminate mist from the glass.

Thanks,
-AD

[james]

^ That feature works if you put the vent position knob on auto. It starts blowing some cool air through the windshield vents once in a while clearing the condensation from inside. There is a sensor in front of the steering column just before the windsheild that controls this.

Cheers!