Emotional Roller-coaster experience of buying & owning White Elephant called Manza

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by Akhil@Bengaluru

I Have observed this noise all the time the steering is turned completely to the limit.
When checked with the Service center they told this is common in all Manza.

RDP & Akhil, Are you both referring to hissing sound comes in when you turn the wheel to extremes ? If so, its normal with the ("Hydraulic" type, I guess) Power steering.
But, if its some jamming noise, you need to check it up as I too had a similar issue on my Safari recently and my service engineer reduced the turning radius which (to me) is NOT the right solution. Need to check up again on the same.

Prem.

[Akhil@Bengaluru]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

RDP & Akhil, Are you both referring to hissing sound comes in when you turn the wheel to extremes ? If so, its normal with the ("Hydraulic" type, I guess) Power steering.
But, if its some jamming noise, you need to check it up as I too had a similar issue on my Safari recently and my service engineer reduced the turning radius which (to me) is NOT the right solution. Need to check up again on the same.

Prem.

Yes it is a hissing sound coming. even i was told it is common in hydraulic Power steering. Thanks for confirming as i did not want to believe only service center guys.

[R.D.P.]

Hi

Completed 2000kms Yesterday.
However before update let me re-visit burning FE issue in multiple MANZA threads.

Almost all active Manza (as well as some other car) threads are turning hot with FE in cities like Bengaluru, Delhi which are notorious for bumper to bumper traffic.

After lot of day dreaming and wearing number of thinking hats, I have come to conclusion that for the emerging India current method of computing FE is obsolete, out of context and needs to be changed.

With year-after-year golden harvests of bumper car productions and perpetual lagging of infra structure, bumper-to-bumper traffic is no more a monopoly of cities like Chennai or Pune but every city, town and village have same scenario. You are driving your costly mercs, and shiny skodas along with tractor, bullock-carts and auto-rickshows in same lane.

This is the real picture.

Does FE measurement in KM/L makes any sense?

No. If two guys are doing round trip of 30 kms daily. One takes half an hour to complete 30 kms and other guy takes 3 hours to complete 30 kms neck to neck traffic, which has 6 signals and couple of railway crossings, the FE figure with traditional method is meaningless.

Point is now FE is governed by time taken to complete the journey rather than distance covered.

So I propose FE should be measured in Hours/Liter rather than Kms/Liter.

This will enable apple to apple comparison. It doesn’t matter how much distance you covered. It matters how much time you kept engine on, which is more relevant and meaningful in todays context

I can imagine animated conversation between X and Y

X : dude, I travel Delhi to Noida. 50 kms , 2 hours. My FE is 0.5 hour/liter
Y: Cool I travel Delhi to Gurgaon. 20 kms still 2 hours. Mine FE is also 0.5 hour/liter.

See.. with new method everybody is happy !

OR

X: long drive over weekend, went to Jaipur. FE dropped drastically on highway. 0.5hour/liter to 0.1 hour/liter.
Y: fortunately boss gave work over weekend. No leaves, so no holiday travel for me! My FE is still 0.5 hour/liter.

Or
How companies will quote their figures

Tata nano : 0.75 hours/liter
Mahindra pico : 1.1 hours/liter
and so on….

I sincerely request tarai or Arai whoever is, to start certifying cars in hours/liters than kms/liters.

Too bad… my quota for smilies is exhausted.



Anyhow coming back to business,

2000 KMs update.

Car is a lot smoother now. After first 1000 kms there was no perceptible change in smoothness but now after 2000 kms car is smooth.

I guess it takes 5-10 kms after start for proper lubrication, after that diesel clatter completely vanishes. (but by the time car starts gliding, I reach to destination. Too bad.)

FE : Ave FE. 16.1 as per DIS. Couldn’t Calculate if by tankful method in recent past. Hopefully next time, I will be able to compute it properly. But FE decreases drastically, if driving style is non-optimal.

Min Inst FE reached to new low 5.9.

Gear Shifting : Would have preferred somewhat shorter gear throw.
Gear shift has been improved from manageable on day one to somewhat smooth. To the extent that, I can gather courage to ask my better half to take a spin.

Scratch: Got first scratch on front bumper in parking lot.

Accessories: No accessories yet. Seat covers and parking sensors are priority items but yet unable to find free time on weekends to complete it.

ORVM: There are complaints that ORVMs of Manza do not open completely, however for me problem is different. They do not close completely. Issue in parking.

ORVMs do not open completely, but I push seat on back side as far as possible and prefer to drive with somewhat lower position. In this position ORVMs visibility is not a problem.

Seat Adjustment : If I increase seat height. It gives good commanding position like sx4 (I mean suv style) and boosts driver confidence. But somehow, my spine starts cribbing. So I prefer to lower seat height.

Break oil leakage is no more issue. Turn indicator issue is still pending but now I am used to it, and manually cancel, if it does not get canceled automatically.

High beam/low beam setting is still open. Irritating. On low beam I am forced to drive on position zero on combo switch, making life of driver in car which is coming in the range of beam difficult.
High beam is forced down on ground, where low beam should be. When I use dipper, I do not get confidence that it dipper beam is visible to others.

ICE : Sound quality is ok Good for me. Hopefully in V2 generation display will be changed. Current display is equivalent to first generation mobiles.
Both ICE and DIS displays have amateur looks. Its like college student last year project and gives feeling of aftermarket fitting.
ODO display in instrument panel is small, sharp, bright and looks professional work. Had the same display used for DIS, all information, (ins FE, ave FE and DTE) would have been displayed simultaneously. Using same display panel for ODO, DIS and ICE will give uniform and pro look to car interior.

Breaks: Really good. I couldn’t test abs yet. Planning to go some day on nearby ground to test and get acquainted with abs functionality of breaks, but couldn’t manage to yet. However breaks are really sharp. Some time in bumper to bumper traffic, I get worried, what if car following behind me doesn’t stop in time.
After getting used to Manza breaks. Now I feel that Matiz does not have breaks at all. It uses only engine breaking.

No long drive yet. Once I drove for some time beyond 100 kmph. Car was fearfully silent and stable. Very addictive, as mentioned in earlier post. Itching to go out. Do not know when I will get chance.

Overall Car is huge and heads still turn, with appreciation. I guess Tatas have been successful in breaking their image with this car. (Although A.S.S. is still same story.. more about it in next post) Overall length and size of car along with feature list is impressive. Whenever I give lift to colleague, before reaching car, I usually listen to Tata quality, diesel engine noise etc, but when he enters in car, opinion changes by 360 degrees. Words of appreciation start flowing down after initial silence.

Cheers/
R.D.P.

[condor]

R.D.P. : I guess it takes 5-10 kms after start for proper lubrication, after that diesel clatter completely vanishes. (but by the time car starts gliding, I reach to destination. Too bad.)

@RDP, just in case this has not been asked so far : Do you idle the engine before you start in the morning ? Check your manual for recommended duration. It could be upto 1 minute of idling, and this really helps.

Reg FE, 2000km of running is still a little early. If you are doing 16, isnt it good ? Do check with a top-up to top-up and let us know.

Btw, with shorter runs like what you seem to be doing, FE will tend to be on the lower side (a situation that I too am facing). Also check your tyre pressures - that can really affect the FE.

[R.D.P.]

Originally Posted by condor

@RDP, just in case this has not been asked so far : Do you idle the engine before you start in the morning ? Check your manual for recommended duration. It could be upto 1 minute of idling, and this really helps.

Hi Condor

yes 1 minute idle is recommended. I think it is for turbo lubrication. In my case I take couple of minutes inside the colony before I cross the gate. Turbo does not kick in before I hit the main street. I guess its pretty safe equivalent of idling. Or should I strictly wait in idle?

Originally Posted by condor

Reg FE, 2000km of running is still a little early. If you are doing 16, isnt it good ? Do check with a top-up to top-up and let us know.

Btw, with shorter runs like what you seem to be doing, FE will tend to be on the lower side (a situation that I too am facing). Also check your tyre pressures - that can really affect the FE.

Yes.. 16 is pretty good if I see others. In any case I will check top-up to top-up and update.

Cheers/
R.D.P.

[bikertillidie]

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the current thread but was wondering if you could offer me some advice by way of reliable Tata authorised service centres in Pune.

I purchased a Tata Manza Quadrajet Aura about two months ago, and drove it back from Calcutta to Pune. Recently took it on a trip to Goa.

Now, the front suspension has developed some "groaning/creaking" noise while going over speed-breakers - probably due to the abuse it has been subjected to.

I am assuming this noise is from the front shock absorbers and they are covered under the manufacturer's warranty.

Can you please advise?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[R.D.P.]

Originally Posted by bikertillidie

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the current thread but was wondering if you could offer me some advice by way of reliable Tata authorised service centres in Pune.

Sorry.. Although I would love to but I do not belong to Pune as of now .

Originally Posted by bikertillidie

Now, the front suspension has developed some "groaning/creaking" noise while going over speed-breakers - probably due to the abuse it has been subjected to.
I am assuming this noise is from the front shock absorbers and they are covered under the manufacturer's warranty

Yes, most likely , it would require to opening and re-greasing shock absorbers.
I faced same problem, when Manza passed thru' water logged road. It took some time to convince T.A.S.S. that there is indeed noise, when car passes over speed breaker. Finally it turned out to be simple Re-Greasing issue.

[W.A.G.7]

I came across this thread a bit late, (in fact quite late), but still this is one of the best threads that I have read on t-bhp. A very belated congrats to you on the car. From the thread, I can make out you are enjoying every one bit of the car !

[bikertillidie]

Originally Posted by R.D.P.

Sorry.. Although I would love to but I do not belong to Pune as of now .



Yes, most likely , it would require to opening and re-greasing shock absorbers.
I faced same problem, when Manza passed thru' water logged road. It took some time to convince T.A.S.S. that there is indeed noise, when car passes over speed breaker. Finally it turned out to be simple Re-Greasing issue.

Dear RDP,

Sorry about the extremely "belated" reply. Somehow missed your post.
The "original" sqeaks as per my earlier posts had disappeared after replacing the anti-roll bar bushings.

My Manza is doing fine except for minor squeaks/rattles from the dashboard & trim. I guess it's to be expected from driving over all kinds of roads across the country throughout the year.

One latest irritant is - there's a rattle which seems to be emanating from the right hand suspension at the front, especially while negotiating left hand turns over undulating road surfaces/minor pot-holes.

TASS's have given me various treatments ranging from (a) denying that the problem exists (b) giving me a patient hearing and trying to tighten a few bolts on the sub-frame - however the problem still remains.

Hence, I really doubt their competence. I have decided not to go in for extended warranty and would prefer to get the problem rectified by my trusted local mechanic.

I suspect it is due to the worn ball joints in the steering linkages.

Has anyone else faced this problem? If so, I would be really interested in knowing what was done to fix it.

[Maverick79]

Originally Posted by bikertillidie

My Manza is doing fine except for minor squeaks/rattles from the dashboard & trim. I guess it's to be expected from driving over all kinds of roads across the country throughout the year.

One latest irritant is - there's a rattle which seems to be emanating from the right hand suspension at the front, especially while negotiating left hand turns over undulating road surfaces/minor pot-holes.

TASS's have given me various treatments ranging from (a) denying that the problem exists (b) giving me a patient hearing and trying to tighten a few bolts on the sub-frame - however the problem still remains.

Hence, I really doubt their competence. I have decided not to go in for extended warranty and would prefer to get the problem rectified by my trusted local mechanic.

I suspect it is due to the worn ball joints in the steering linkages.

Has anyone else faced this problem? If so, I would be really interested in knowing what was done to fix it.

Hi Bikertillidie,

May I know the TASS location you have visited?
I owned a Manza till it clocked 40K and then sold it as I got relocated.
I used to give it to Pandit TASS in Bhosri. Langdewadi to be precise.
One Mr. Amol is a very competent S.A there. Next is Ravi.
Just check with them next time. I had good experiences, with them in solving such issues, though not as same as yours.

Regards,
Maverick79.

[bikertillidie]

Originally Posted by Maverick79

Hi Bikertillidie,

May I know the TASS location you have visited?
I owned a Manza till it clocked 40K and then sold it as I got relocated.
I used to give it to Pandit TASS in Bhosri. Langdewadi to be precise.
One Mr. Amol is a very competent S.A there. Next is Ravi.
Just check with them next time. I had good experiences, with them in solving such issues, though not as same as yours.

Regards,
Maverick79.

Hi Maverick79,

I have visited National Autowheels(@Uruli Dewachi) & Srinivasa Automobiles(@Hadapsar Industrial Estate) without much luck.

I will give Pandit a try. Hope the car will fare better in their hands.

Many thanks for your inputs.

[Dr.Suraj]

Long time RDP.

How is Airavat doing?

Any improvement with the TASS?

[dreamliner17]

I came across your post today R.D.P and i am confused whether i should congratulate you on your Manza purchase or congratulate you on your writing ability ! Since i am extremely late in congratulating you for your Manza, i'll congratulate you for the latter !
and what a great write-up !

Originally Posted by R.D.P.

It was (and for me still is) worlds most beautiful small car.

Being a chevy spark owner , i dont think i can agree with you in anything lesser than one hundred percent ! I feel , the spark will 'remain' the most exceptional small car !