[ashnd]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

So guys any news on the new and improved Thar?

Ashnd: You bought one a couple of days back. Is it the same 2.5 L engine and interiors? Post up some pics of it in white. Would be nice to see it in this color. What is the date of manufacture of your Thar?

Navpreet318, its still the same Thar with the same engine. Manufactured 4th March 2013. If it's any consolation, the steering wheel feels of good quality and so does the gear knob. It feels atleast 50% better than the test drive example at the local dealership here in Gurgaon, which was around a year old. At the moment the whole car feels taut. Age old Jeep quality issues persist, the passenger side door handle is sticky, the bonnet catches have started gnawing at the paint and at the moment AC water is leaking into the passenger footwell. But to be honest these issues sound big, but are infact little niggles that I am more than happy to put up with. The air-conditioning works well and is sufficient on fan speed 1 itself. I wouldn't pin too many hopes of a substantially improved Thar anytime soon for the simple reason that any further price increase and it will stop making sense. At the moment, for Rs 7.75 lakh or thereabouts, this is a tall, comfortable and air-conditioned Jeep for premium hatchback money. I made an interesting observation today, whilst following a Fortuner, I could look over its roof and beyond! I simply love the tall stance!

As it's less common in white, to my eye it looks really nice. Here's a few preliminary pictures.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by desertfox

The Thar Crde is not at all doing well off road.

I noticed this in the last Bangaore off-road event as well. There where much less Thar CRDe as compared to the earlier two years.

[codelust]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I noticed this in the last Bangaore off-road event as well. There where much less Thar CRDe as compared to the earlier two years.

Is this also a cost issue?

A well sorted out 550 or a Gypsy rarely goes above 4L (unless you add fancy ARB/OME/Ironman/Blisten/Tien bits) for the OTR application.

A Thar, out-of-the-box, will cost you 7+L, depending on where you are at.

Basically, you can break a decent Gypsy/550 on a trail (even multiple times) and yet have a Total Cost of Ownership lesser than a brand new Thar?

[desertfox]

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!.

To know how to multi-quote, click here.

It is not the cost but the trouble. Most of these Thar Jeeps are under warranty. The broken CV joint on axle part will get repaired free of cost. But imagine the pain associated in hauling the vheicle from off road trails.

Then more pain will be inflicted by Mahindra service. The part in question will take at least 5 to 7 days to arrive and then trials, second fitment trial, final trial the effort is more like going to a tailor for a bespoke suit.

Originally Posted by ashnd

Although it's marketed to that effect, the Thar is not that hardcore of an offroader. The Gypsy is much more suited to abuse shunted out at off road events. The Thar Di with its solid axle is probably a safer bet too. The CRDe fills an important void for those looking for 90% of the Gypsy's capability but also usability on road with features such as the independent front suspension, power steering and air conditioning. Under stress when stuck in OTRs, suspension components break, just like on the Scorpio, combined with the ease of power steering.

So it really is down to what one perceives it to be- not strong enough for some, whilst a godsend for others who yearned for such a product for years. Obviously each set of users will put their Thars to different uses.

Where did you buy the new That from ? Sterling Motors or the other new dealer on Sohna Road, Gurgaon. Please do post your dealership and pre delivery / post delivery experience for the benefit of all Gurgaon off roaders / Bhpinas

[akshay4587]

AFAIK Thar Crde was not available in white,or on a special order only.
is it now available in white off the shelf?

[599gto]

I went to check out the Thar at one of the bigger dealer's showroom the other day, first they made me wait for a good 30 minutes with no body to attend, but because I was very keen on the Thar, I did wait, secondly I went all around the vehicle in those 30 minutes and I noticed that no matter hot strong the outer construction is, there are more than just a few quality and design issues.

All was good till the car was locked, once they unlocked it for me, I was instantly disappointed, not with the interior quality or anything(I have had a bolero camper for some 5 years) but it was the seat adjustability, no matter how much I pushed it, it just wasn't enough (I am 5 feet 9 inches tall and hefty). Another thing I noticed that the indicator stalk wasn't locking on either sides on a brand new vehicle ready for delivery (and the wheel was perfectly centred). And then the steering wheel which is uncomfortably not in the centre.All in all no matter how much I love the Thar, I don't think I can live with the issues on a daily basis, specially after (mind you, I am not comparing!) driving around the polo for 2 years and 16k kms(the car has zero rattles and has a good driving position IMHO).

I think Mahindra should/could have at the very least taken care of the ergonomics part! I am sure better ergonomics on a modern engine vehicle wouldn't have caused 'CMVR' issues!

And last but not the least, the dealership guy had ZERO(yeah that's a big one!) knowledge about the Thar, and I wasn't offered a test drive. on asking for it, they said they don't have a test drive vehicle! I think this is ridiculous because I wouldn't pay 8.31 lakh OTR, without a comprehensive test drive!

[ashnd]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Where did you buy the new That from ? Sterling Motors or the other new dealer on Sohna Road, Gurgaon. Please do post your dealership and pre delivery / post delivery experience for the benefit of all Gurgaon off roaders / Bhpinas

Desertfox, I sourced it from Sterling Motors. The pre-purchase story is a bit of a roller coaster wherein I had first booked a Gypsy, cancelled it, got home a used Gypsy, couldn't get it registered and had to return it, booked a Scorpio VLX auto 4x4 but percieved it to be too pricey, so cancelled it and a few others like this! All Thar dealers, including ones in Delhi, were specifying a waiting period of one month. It was with a stroke of luck, that we ventured into Sterling Motors on Saturday, 6th April, and they had not one, but two brand new Thars up for grabs immediately! And that too in white! Needless to say, I decided to snap it up instantly. I looked at both the examples, one was in the Showroom, manufactured 8th Feb 2013 and the other in the stockyard, manufactured on 4th March. This is the one I selected, and some formalities later, took delivery on the auspicious day of the first Navratra on Thursday. The price increased by Rs 10,000 in the time I had seen it and took delivery, but they agreed on including free accessories worth Rs 3000. I chose mats for the front and rear, the mesh radiator grille and gear lever shrouds. They did not have stock of the front mats and the grille, but I'm headed over there later on today to get these two items. Apart from that, the experience with the dealer was fuss free. They arranged for insurance at Rs 10,000 less than what you see in the price list- so it's important to ask for this- in any case, obtaining this externally is usually cheaper. I'm also registering it myself and will be doing this once I receive the file from the dealer.

Apart from the issues mentioned in my previous post, it's a decidedly enjoyable vehicle.

An update on the water leakage in the passenger footwell: it wasn't AC water at all, the true cause will make some people read this again in disbelief: a connecting hose to the left washer jet has been conveniently forgotten. So it was leaking water when the vehicle moved from side to side on turns and then when I operated the washer jets (unknowing about the issue ofcourse) disaster struck everything in the glovebox! Had to drain the screenwash out and dry what I could. Again, this will be reported to the dealer and fixed today.

[ashnd]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

AFAIK Thar Crde was not available in white,or on a special order only.
is it now available in white off the shelf?

White is now a readily available colour in the CRDe, all Thars appear to have a waiting period of a month in the NCR region.

On another note, yesterday I've added an Autocop Trackpro alarm system with tracker. Took them all day to fit this, as I wouldn't let them take shortcuts. A stereo and 2 rear JBL 400 watt speakers were added too.

Will post more on this later.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by desertfox

It is not the cost but the trouble. Most of these Thar Jeeps are under warranty. The broken CV joint on axle part will get repaired free of cost.

Is this true, the CV joints broken during offroad drives are covered under warranty?

[ashnd]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Is this true, the CV joints broken during offroad drives are covered under warranty?

One member known to me had this issue. It was NOT easy to get this repair done under warranty. Additionally he had much wider tyres fitted with spacers and this is what was being blamed by the Mahindra dealers as the cause of the issue. The owner then had to collect data and evidence of this issue occurring on 7-8 different Thars irrespective of the tyres and his complaint got escalated to the Regional Manager level. Only then was it resolved under warranty. So, its not a straightforward case and obviously individual cases will vary in terms of their success at getting it done under warranty.

[desertfox]

If the vehicle is in stock condition, unaltered, unmodified then as per the warranty terms it is covered. Only tyres and rubber parts are out of warranty, the batteries come with their own 2 year warranty.

Thus a broken axle, drive shaft, cv joint or swing arm, wishbone, tie rod end or shocker will be covered under warranty. How Mahindra decide to harass a customer over this is another issue highly subjective in nature. Mahindra wanted to launch an off road lifestyle vehicle, now the customer is doing nothing more than what he has been promised. Off roading, new lifestyle in air conditioned comfort. Holding Mahindra great escape events in every major city further amplify this new lifestyle.

Then when this vehicles are busting with great degree of regularity, till the warranty is valid isn't the onus on Mahindra to honour it ?

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by 599gto

I think Mahindra should/could have at the very least taken care of the ergonomics part! I am sure better ergonomics on a modern engine vehicle wouldn't have caused 'CMVR' issues! And last but not the least, the dealership guy had ZERO(yeah that's a big one!) knowledge about the Thar.

Dear 599gto - I read your above post, debated with myself what I should reply. Instead of replying with the usual information which everybody knows now, I decided to check out a different approach. I searched through all the Thar threads for total number of hits and responses. I actually took a calculator and added the numbers. The result is for everyone to see:

The total number of Thar thread hits as of today are 26,34,000. Yes, that's twenty six lakh thirty four thousand hits!

The total number of Thar thread responses as of today are 8,274. .

The numbers are saying everything! This is reality! We have more than achieved what we had set out to do! If we had waited for CMVR, we would still be waiting!

I am not surprised that the guy on the dealership showroom floor had ZERO knowledge about the vehicle. The ground reality on the showroom floor is far removed from the presentation reality on the corporate floor!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Dear Mr. Dhabhar,

Out of 8274, how many are complaints by owners and disappointment expressed by others regarding those complaints or general dissatisfaction about the Thar?

Anyone can calculate that? We'll get a better result.

In this page i see 13 posts including mine.

Out of that:

- Complaint regarding thar / allied issues of thar: ashnd, 4x4 addict, desert fox, 599gto, ashnd

- Non specific / question post / non praise: codelust, desert fox, askhay 4587, ashnd, desert fox, behram, samurai, me

- Praise: half a post of ashnd

Hmmmm?

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

If we had waited for CMVR, we would still be waiting!

How can a company launch a vehicle without CMVR certification?

[599gto]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear 599gto - I read your above post, debated with myself what I should reply. Instead of replying with the usual information which everybody knows now, I decided to check out a different approach. I searched through all the Thar threads for total number of hits and responses. I actually took a calculator and added the numbers. The result is for everyone to see:

The total number of Thar thread hits as of today are 26,34,000. Yes, that's twenty six lakh thirty four thousand hits!

The total number of Thar thread responses as of today are 8,274. .

The numbers are saying everything! This is reality! We have more than achieved what we had set out to do! If we had waited for CMVR, we would still be waiting!

I am not surprised that the guy on the dealership showroom floor had ZERO knowledge about the vehicle. The ground reality on the showroom floor is far removed from the presentation reality on the corporate floor!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir it is indeed an honour to receive a response from you! I am all of 20 but I aspire to be one amongst you someday!

Coming back to the Thar sir, I love the Thar as a concept, but not as a real product.
What you guys at Mahindra have achieved is exceptional, but to a regular customer like me, it is not a buy and drive (on the lines of plug and play!) vehicle. It may be possible to better the product for most people on board, and maybe even I can manage to do a few things to make it better, but as people have pointed before, this vehicle is not for the average un informed buyer! And even if one is informed, not everybody would have enough resources, skills, and financial back up to support them, and proper fabricators and skilled mechanics are not available everywhere. When I think of buying the Thar and working on it to make it suitable for me, the next thought that comes to my mind is that why should I spend more time, money and energy after paying much more than 8 lakh rupees (8.31 lakh OTR Pune + basic accessories). But then one really doesn't have options in that segment.

I am not as technically sound as others on the forum, and with all due respect Sir, if numbers were to go by, the Maruti 800 would be better than most cars in the market! And these are not sales or even sales enquiry numbers!

Now, about the dealership, I think its a dealership which represents a manufacturer, people on the board of directors or the engineers at R&D don't come to sell cars to customers, its the dealership and its employs, and IMHO its the manufacturer's responsibility to train their representatives. All that the guy at the Pune dealership told me was 'Sir, ye gaadi ekdum MAST banaya hai!', forget axle ratio and IFS!

As on date I will not be able to buy the Thar, because I am still a student and dependent on my father! He has agreed to buy me a car, but he wouldn't finance the modifications that the Thar demands, (he knows what all is needed because we've just booked a Thar Di, to be used by our employs for odd jobs at our work place, being in the mining industry, we wanted a reliable go anywhere vehicle, which the Thar is, but because it will always be driven by a driver, the ergonomics and quality issues don't really matter). Had it been closer to perfect from the factory, there would have already been another Rocky Beige Thar cRDE on the road!

[desertfox]

Dhabhar Ji,

The Thar is a popular car, a lot of people of browse on Team Bhp are interested in the Thar it is a head turner on the road, it is our very own desi Jeep Wrangler Wannabe vehicle all this is true.

But in today's time when the market is global and mahindra actually aspire to export their vehicles to RHD and LHD markets can such errors in production be tolerated ? Is it something to be proud of that instead of Kaizen, groups conflicting with each other exist in Mahindra.

New Thar CRDe comes to the customer without a windscreen washer pipe connected, on another ocassion torsion bar incorrectly calibirated, rust on wheels, improper sealing.

That no service mechanic or sales representative is knowledgeable about Thar and 4x4 systems is nothing to be proud of.

Mahindra Marketing has to wake up and face the issues. Vinod Nookla are you listening.

The dealership for Toyota in the UAE, AL Futtaim Motors also had a similar problem in 1996 when Landcruiser sale opened to all and the Prado LC 90 was launched. A service advisor or sales person had no idea what is a full time 4x4 and the fact that lever need not be engaged, it would put the vehicle in 4H centre diff lock, neither did anyone know what is an LSD.

But to all problems there is a solution. A training centre was set up and in batches we taught them theory and then some hands on off road driving. In four months servent leadership and train the trainer program ensured all of Toyota UAE knew about 4x4 sales and service essentials.

A laid back ignoring all crticism approach is not a solution. Some positive thinking has to come into the very corporate culture of Mahindra.