[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

I just realized something no one has been really talking about. The technique you would use generally in the older generation of offroaders. I think, an do correct me if i am wrong, but I think, the Thar needs to be put through an obstacle using a bootfull of power and not gingerly as we usually do with the older cars.

already discussed to death! I had even written the comment, and is one of the issues against Thar. People who do not understand will really break the vehicle to bits doing that. The Rajashthan event ^^^ And it is not a good sign at all! I can give Thar some browny points, the street tyre playing havoc (in the video). But if that is the case even with MT tyre, then we will have whole wide world questioning the IFS Seriously this is the real life problem with IFS, it will lift off at the slightest aggression.

So now let me give what i observed instead:

- First climb, old or new both would not crawl up. Coz the surface is powdery/slippery.

- Thar wins here with abundance of rev's, old schools might need a longer run up and some smart throttle inputs

- Second climb though not as steep and long can be crawled by ol school jeeps also. Here Thar with ECM can be a boon or bane.

ECMed diesel engines takes care of power in such a manner that it will keep it slightly above the threshold below which the engine can switch off.

- Boon if the traction is good, vehicle can even climb without inputs from pedal.

- Bane if surface is slippery, wheels will start to spin and driver will have to actuate clutch slips now and then. Not the ideal way to do it. (Talking about crawl here in the last 2 points)

See, all these video's play the right and wrong thing in an experienced persons mind. Its the experience which decides if it is really working, or not.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

I just realized something no one has been really talking about. The technique you would use generally in the older generation of offroaders. I think, an do correct me if i am wrong, but I think, the Thar needs to be put through an obstacle using a bootfull of power and not gingerly as we usually do with the older cars.

It has been discussed many many times. That highlighted portion actually worries me.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Definitely, I was at all seas when I first drove the Thar. It behaved more like Gypsy than Jeep.

It might match older Jeeps, whether it will exceed, I not yet ready to cast that vote. The drivers will come to depend more on the massive torque than skill. They will rip apart terrains. Yes, I have seen what Scorpios have done to the terrains in the past with their CRDe engines.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

I just realized something no one has been really talking about. The technique you would use generally in the older generation of offroaders. I think, an do correct me if i am wrong, but I think, the Thar needs to be put through an obstacle using a bootfull of power and not gingerly as we usually do with the older cars.

I am not really an offroader, so I may be wrong here, but from personal experience as well as observation using power instead of gently pussyfooting over rocks and other such obstacles usually results in things breaking. I am sure, offroader or no offroader, nobody likes to break things on their new vehicle, esp one costing 6L.
If you would like to see a real world example of things breaking due to power use please go through the 4 guna 4 thread.
There was a rock pile section, and some vehicles did it very slowly, and just got minor dings on the underside.
Some did it with speed, cleared it and ended up with broken bumpers and number plates etc.,
So while using speed an power may do it, doing it regularly will ruin your vehicle and may even cause it to strand.
I can probably charge at a rock pile in a M800 and blast through it. But the vehicle will not be fit for driving after that.
So the trick for an offroader is not just to clear the obstacle, but clear it again and again, with minimal damage.
No matter what vehicle, or how powerful it is, if it requires speed and power(called the rally way) to get through an obstacle, then its not the right vehicle for that obstacle(Sand is an exception).

I guess the non offroaders are criticizing the vehicle because they wanted a comfortable trail driver insulating them from the elements in comfort in any weather condition. Thar is not such a vehicle.
Hard core offroaders are criticizing the vehicle because they feel if they use it on rocky terrains and the like, its front suspension will break.
I have not seen reports of front suspension breaking in the Thar, so I will give it the benefit of doubt, but then I am also told that the front suspension setup is very similar to scorpio, which can actually break in tough terrains.
That said, the lighter weight of Thar may result in lesser change of breakage, and only sustained testing and owner reviews will reveal the true picture.

Last but not the least, irrespective of trim level(AC/HT), no valid excuse can be given for the shoddy attention to detail, and glaring shortcomings in the interior, for example having loose parts inside which can cut your skin.

Yes the Army jeeps are also very crude on the inside, but lets not forget, a Thar costs twice that much of a rebuilt jeep.

[SunChaser]

Hey Ym-enjn!! heard about your off roading from a good friend of mine, Adhiraj.. He was driving the MM540 petrol. How's the Thar performing?? Does the independent suspension hinder the performance?? Also how did Adhiraj's petrol perform compared to the Thar?

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

@spike and BD. Can this not be taken care of by swapping the rear seats? The shorter seat behind the driver should be moved to the other side (behind the co-driver seat) and the seat should be pushed towards the cabin. This being a shorter seat, will liberate enough room to access the tailgate opening mechanism from the inside.

-Biju

Biju, good observation, see below Jaggu has the answer.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

^^ driver will lose out on leg space/room then. Is what i feel, esp with steering and pedals in front of him, he needs more space behind for seat to move

Originally Posted by Samurai

I don't know jack about technical side of Jeep, still you don't see me feeling humiliated or trying to preach about things I don't know. In my Jeep thread, I usually ask the silliest questions without any shame.

Oh yeah, I've observed that. Frankly speaking, if you are shy of asking questions the lesser you will learn or know. No harm in asking questions, that shows the curiosity to learn.

Spike

[Xinger]

Originally Posted by ACM

One needs to take the Thar and rip appart the dash and make a new customized one - I guess 20k should do it, pls spend a bit more and get new stiched pesudo leather seat cover for the front seats, and door pannels also one needs to refit one of the two rear seats in the front facing format in the reat. Then get a decent cover, a winch and if comfort is required than it needs an AC and a hard top.

The front guard looks good and the car looks ready for customization, I guess on needs to add about 1.5-2L to the car for getting it ready to be a true life style vehicle

This is exactly what I have been saying. Mahindra has provided dummy parts that are meant to last only days or hours after delivery, until the buyer replaces them with better quality stuff as per his taste and requirement (those of a true offroader would be very different than those of a lifestyle buyer).

Is this expected of a reputable manufacturer? No, at least not for a usual vehicle. But Thar is not a usual vehicle. So it is a valid strategy, I feel. Will it work? Let's wait and see!

[greatmana2000]

Is the ECM waterproof and theftproof on the THAR ?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Oh yeah, I've observed that. Frankly speaking, if you are shy of asking questions the lesser you will learn or know. No harm in asking questions, that shows the curiosity to learn.

Spikey, I have been like that since college. If I have a stupid question, I ask. If I don't, I would remain stupid. Better ask a stupid question, and get enlightened. I feel no humiliation.

[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Excellent as Khan and Tejas rightly pointed out, nothing will stop that CRDe engine. It will go on and on. Will be really interesting to see this vehicle this time around in events like TPC where engine power also plays an integral part.

Why did your friend choose BFG, they are not that great in slush. Best for rocks, or deflate like crazy for slush.

Agree Jaggu, the official review is absolutely correct and pinpointed. BFGs maybe because of the look..

Originally Posted by offroad_maniac

----
EDIT: Just saw your post Ym-enjn,
Those are some amazingly crazy pics for a brand new jeep.
After all, no offence, but did the owner bought it as a Toy? I mean giving a brand new vehicle to others to drive like crazy?? Feels sorry for the owner & the Thar.
BTW its good to know that no damage was done to IFS.

Post some more shots of your 550 & Thar. May be you can open up a new thread in excursions. It will be first for a Thar post official launch

Same was with the group, everyone felt sorry for that and the hitting person even offered compensation to the owner but he refused to take money. Damages do happen on OTRs, sometimes radiator, sometimes tyres, axels, dents, lights, petrol tank leak and what not. Just that it was a brand new Jeep and that to Thar was pinching most.

Well I thought about starting a new thread but keeping very busy these days. I'll do that as soon as I get enough time.. I was also wondering no one is comparing Thar with a 550.. What an upgrade it is..

Originally Posted by SunChaser

Hey Ym-enjn!! heard about your off roading from a good friend of mine, Adhiraj.. He was driving the MM540 petrol. How's the Thar performing?? Does the independent suspension hinder the performance?? Also how did Adhiraj's petrol perform compared to the Thar?

Hi, it was company fitted 1.8 isuzu MM 550. Just two of the kind. Was doing gud.. For IFS see my posts above.

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I don't know what you own. My conclusion was derived from the comments you made, it is easy to make out if a statement is coming out of real experience.

What is humiliating about being a non-offroader? At least 95% of the BHPians are not offroaders. There is nothing humiliating about it. I don't know jack about technical side of Jeep, still you don't see me feeling humiliated or trying to preach about things I don't know. In my Jeep thread, I usually ask the silliest questions without any shame.

But, if you feel you are an offroader, I guess you are. I just find your strong statements quite contrary to reality, that's all.

Coming back to Thar. Since the EXAMM (I never saw Thar in action in AKC), I have had no doubts about the ability of Thar. My gripes are mostly about lack of HT, AC and the horrible fit-n-finish for a vehicle costing 7.3L in my state. I am OK with the price, but not happy about what I can getting for that price.

I did not say it is humiliating being a non-offroader. God alone knows where you get your so called conclusions. Your definitions of relativity and reality seemed to be skewed as with everyone, you are looking it from one angle and I am looking it from another. Anyways, we are getting off topic.

Coming back to the Thar, I completely agree with the fact that the int. quality has to improve and it should have an AC, but this has been discussed to the death too. The Thar in the current form is what we all have to make do with, and Im sure improvements are on the way.

Coming to the driving techniques part, I was merely stating the facts that all of the people who are seasoned offroaders and have been in various situations in various cars have spoken about the power part, but if u look at all the other people who have posted in this thread who are not regulars in the OTR sections have never uttered a word about the fact that the Thar can overpower most situations with shear power. Most thee people as well will have the basic def. of OTRing as a drive through slush of some sand etc. in which case, the Thar can go through where something heavier may get stuck. (for example, a Thar vs a Scorpio in a slush field).

Also, why is it always being said that there is a direct relation between the "power technique" and damage? Did 521 ever get damaged at EXAMM and AKC?? and we all know how much of the driving at the EXAMM and AKC was power and "aggression"

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

Is the ECM waterproof and theftproof on the THAR ?

Water proof depends on the quality of the harness re work done by M&M. where as regarding the theftproof, its neither the THAR nor the ECM. if thief is in hurry he can just simply carry home the ECM which is easily accessible and clearly visible on the left footwell. you just have to unscrew few bolts and unplug the harness that's it. that's the most expensive item you can find inside unless you have installed a very expensive audio system.

[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Hi, it was company fitted 1.8 isuzu MM 550. Just two of the kind. Was doing gud.. For IFS see my posts above.

Just a thought what if MM come's out with a high revving Petrol version of Thar at a price much lower than Gypsy???

[SS-Traveller]

I'm afraid I cannot help butting in here...

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

The Thar in the current form is what we all have to make do with...

Why? When will this jugaad mentality end?

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

...Thar can overpower most situations with shear power. ...where something heavier may get stuck. (for example, a Thar vs a Scorpio in a slush field).

The Scorpio 4WD is just about 170kg heavier than the Thar (1920kg vs. 1750kg) - does this mean a Thar with 3 or 4 people on board is as likely to get stuck as a Scorpio with a solo driver?

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

I'm afraid I cannot help butting in here...

Why? When will this jugaad mentality end?

The Scorpio 4WD is just about 170kg heavier than the Thar (1920kg vs. 1750kg) - does this mean a Thar with 3 or 4 people on board is as likely to get stuck as a Scorpio with a solo driver?

Nope. As the approach angle is diffferent, wheelbase is different, track is different. Several factors.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Just a thought what if MM come's out with a high revving Petrol version of Thar at a price much lower than Gypsy???

5-6KMPL. Go figure

[Rajith]

More of THAR CRDE rusting pictures below,Dont know what to say reg the shell and interior quality for the price quoted.