[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Bid our sweet adieu to Finland and looked back from the flight window till we could see no more.

Nähdään Pian Suomi (See you soon Finland)

Quite a touching farewell post to Finland. I really enjoyed reading about your life and experiences in Finland through this thread. It's amazing how even the little things taken from granted offer so much to learn for someone who has never experienced it before.

Looking forward to the next set of adventures.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

Quite a touching farewell post to Finland. I really enjoyed reading about your life and experiences in Finland through this thread. It's amazing how even the little things taken from granted offer so much to learn for someone who has never experienced it before.

Looking forward to the next set of adventures.

Thanks. Life in Nordics is indeed an overwhelmingly positive experience. I have barely covered the things I would have wished to cover and I'm sure other folk who've lived in Finland longer (@starrysky is one I can think of) will have more to say.

As for adventures, not so sure of that but there are more experiences to jot down.

[14000rpm]

Rest of the flight from Helsinki to Detroit was spent in reminiscing memories of life spent in Finland and the numerous holidays all over Europe and all the things we would be missing. The opportunity in Detroit was quite interesting and exciting since it had me handle the big 3 auto OEM's as my customers. However, the name Detroit has earned itself an unshakeable stigma. Perhaps it is just the snowball effect of some known cases of arson, mugging etc. This didn't help one bit to build confidence to the wife. Luckily enough, the city we chose to live in, Rochester Hills, is about 25 miles north of Detroit and most importantly, a safer place.

Where in Finland, for the most part, there is no need to research about crime rate in an area and about schools, I was advised to do so in US. Never cared about all this when I lived in US before but then, my family wasn't with me those days. Luckily @Geomy lives in the same area and tips and guidance from him certainly helped. Thanks Bud.

Picked up a rental RAM 1500 at the airport to lug all the luggage ( which was quite a lot actually) and reached a hotel in Troy, MI where we stayed for 15 days till we froze on an apartment.



Had the rental with me till I purchased a car and for 14 of the 15 days, this is all the precious cargo it carried.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

I migrated to Rochester Hills, MI, USA in July 2017

South or North Rochester hills? I used to live at E Auburn road in 2007-08. It must be freezing out there with plenty of snow storms isn't it? Do they still have the Olive Garden & Chili's outlet at Hampton market?

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by aargee

South or North Rochester hills? I used to live at E Auburn road in 2007-08. It must be freezing out there with plenty of snow storms isn't it? Do they still have the Olive Garden & Chili's outlet at Hampton market?

That's a total coincidence- my house is on E Auburn and Barclay circle in Rochester Hills. ��

Yes. Chili's and Olive Garden are still around. You must have fond memories.

Snow storms- you know how it is. The Cold doesn't bother me. Not that I'm inhuman but then, that's what the Finn's taught me- there is no good or bad weather..there is only good or bad clothing.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

That's a total coincidence- my house is on E Auburn and Barclay circle in Rochester Hills. Yes. Chili's and Olive Garden are still around. You must have fond memories

Yes very much; I used to take W.Auburn road which has highest speed limit of 50 MPH to drive to office. I used to live at South Plaza of Hampton & there used to be a CVS pharmacy next block. I under estimated that I could actually walk & had a nightmare. It took less than 5 min by car!!

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

there is no good or bad weather..there is only good or bad clothing.

Well said

[rst89]

Hey 14000rpm,

Came across the thread and read it from start.
Nordic countries have their own charisma.

Most of OEM companies and R&D centres are located in Rochester hills. Even the automotive firm for which i work has its North American R&D centre in Rochester hills. You will have a great time in USA also.

Cheers!

[Arch-Angel]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Been a long while since ....

But then, decision was made. Opportunity called and I answered. US it was.

Bid our sweet adieu to Finland and looked back from the flight window till we could see no more.

Nähdään Pian Suomi (See you soon Finland)

I somehow like Finland more than any other country (even though it is kinda the only country I have ever been to lol). Coincidentally, I returned to Oulu after a short assignment back in summer. It is sort of a place which you begin liking slowly. I have made quite a good number of friends which basically means what google says about finnish people should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, "ei ole hyvästit, ystävä". . I was thinking about you and this thread and was wondering where you were.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by rst89

Hey 14000rpm,

Came across the thread and read it from start.
Nordic countries have their own charisma.

Most of OEM companies and R&D centres are located in Rochester hills. Even the automotive firm for which i work has its North American R&D centre in Rochester hills. You will have a great time in USA also.

Cheers!

About the Charisma - true.

Rochester hills and neighboring areas of Troy, Auburn hills, Novi, Farmington hills are all abuzz with several auto OEMs and Tier-1s. No dearth of Indian touch in these areas for sure. Do you visit Rochester Hills ever?

Originally Posted by Arch-Angel

I somehow like Finland more than any other country (even though it is kinda the only country I have ever been to lol). Coincidentally, I returned to Oulu after a short assignment back in summer. It is sort of a place which you begin liking slowly. I have made quite a good number of friends which basically means what google says about finnish people should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, "ei ole hyvästit, ystävä". . I was thinking about you and this thread and was wondering where you were.

Indeed. Finland can only grow on an Individual and it looks like it with you. Geo-wise I'm a bit everywhere now. You'll see as I update this thread further.

[HappyWheels]

Wonderful to read the updates; just seems only recently that I read your posts on moving to Finland and now we are few years down from there.

Talk about time flying, this sure is one of those moments when you notice it.

[14000rpm]

Being used to the busy Keskusta/Centrum (city centers) in Finland, the wife wanted me to take her to the city center in Troy, MI where our hotel was.But then, I was already driving on Big Beaver road in Troy which is really the 'main' road in the area and is a crude comparison to Keskusta. With only cars zipping by and no real central area with eateries and coffee shops, the one thing that came at lightning speed was disappointment.

This was only day 1 and in a way, was the beginning of many more to come. However, we had migrated to US in pursuit of career opportunities after all US is said to be the land of opportunities. Hence, we had no choice but to try to avoid comparisons as each time it only led to more disappointments.
Net-net we believe that if one is used to life in US and US only, life is beautiful and the system is one of perfection. However, for us, being used to Europe and then moving to US, the experience was quite underwhelming. Overall, it was the Quality of Life, in our perspective, that was the main differentiation.

There are several ways 'Quality' can be defined but defining it is not my intention and nor will I try. For us, it was the general perception of happiness in a place, social welfare system and its benefits, equality of social strata, trust, quality of food, medical system and focus on well-being, childcare, safety, etc. led to the 'feeling' of quality in Finland and the lack of the same in US.

Note - I am in no means trying to generalize anything. This thread is intended to be non-controversial and is purely my experience and hence my perception only. I know of a lot of my Indian-origin friends who are absolutely happy in US. It just doesn't seem to work for me.

[noopster]

Hey 14000rpm,

Your thread bump was a pleasant reminder of the time when I used to follow your thread keenly. Sadly I haven’t visited the Nordics yet but did spend a large part of the last two years in New Zealand which, though much milder climatically, shares a lot of the natural beauty and environmental consciousness of Finland.

Even though you have chosen to make America your new home, do keep posting on this thread when you get the time. Even a simple thing like a weekend day trip to a bridge can be entertaining and informative, as you have amply demonstrated!

[rst89]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

About the Charisma - true.

Rochester hills and neighboring areas of Troy, Auburn hills, Novi, Farmington hills are all abuzz with several auto OEMs and Tier-1s. No dearth of Indian touch in these areas for sure. Do you visit Rochester Hills ever?

I currently work for German projects. So no chance to visit Rochester hills though I have visited USA.

The automotive sector even extends to Livonia, MI.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Wonderful to read the updates; just seems only recently that I read your posts on moving to Finland and now we are few years down from there.

Talk about time flying, this sure is one of those moments when you notice it.

Indeed it flies. I still remember the pearl Valley OTR in your Safari but then, thats close to a decade ago by now. It's been a while that I moved out of India and I've been a nomad since.

Originally Posted by noopster

Hey 14000rpm,

Your thread bump was a pleasant reminder of the time when I used to follow your thread keenly.

I hope I'm able to rejuvenate interest again now that I'm trying to revive the thread with updates since I last left it.

Originally Posted by noopster

Sadly I haven’t visited the Nordics yet but did spend a large part of the last two years in New Zealand which, though much milder climatically, shares a lot of the natural beauty and environmental consciousness of Finland.

and Sadly I haven't visited NZ too. There is so much of the world to see and so little time and most importantly, so little paisa.

Originally Posted by noopster

Even though you have chosen to make America your new home, do keep posting on this thread when you get the time.

About the US being home-we'll see about that. There is a lot that I hadn't filled in this thread and now that I have some free time thanks to vacations, I'm trying to fill the gaps.

Originally Posted by noopster

Even a simple thing like a weekend day trip to a bridge can be entertaining and informative, as you have amply demonstrated!

Thanks for the generous dose of kind words. Hopefully I have the same skill still.

Originally Posted by rst89

I currently work for German projects. So no chance to visit Rochester hills though I have visited USA.

The automotive sector even extends to Livonia, MI.

Thats true. The whole of Metro Detroit actually.

[14000rpm]

Over the course of the next few months, while we tried to unlearn Finland and adopt US, many aspect of Finnish life kept coming back on dinner table discussion.

Most common were:

Social benefits -
It's a known fact that the taxes are high in Europe and more so in Scandinavian countries. However, the social benefits more than make up for it as can be seen in some of the benefits I have gained when our child was born in Finland.

Childcare allowance- Child receives € 100/month and would receive it till 16 yrs of age. it increases after that. She pretty much earned her expenses. Further, the mother receives € 550/month for 1 child and would continue to receive it upto 2 years from child's birth. This only increases if one has more children. Loss of income - the mother receives 80% of last drawn salary (if applicable) for 10 months on account of leaving a job for maternity reasons. My wife got all of the above.

There are several local Daycares all over the place in residential areas. Most are totally free of any fees. However, most of these free places are mostly in Finnish and rare few in Swedish.
There are other private daycare options too and the welfare system (known as Kela) supports here as well. In Espoo where we lived, there are many English language daycares whose fees could be quite high. But then, Kela pays € 750 reducing the blow.

Education -
I'm pretty sure you have read in one place or the other about the high quality of education in Finland. It actually boils down to the teaching methods which, quite frankly, is quite different and it works. This applies to all levels of education starting from Daycare.

Education is typically free for all, immigrants and international students included. Specialized courses may have a nominal fees though. However, recently there had been debates to have international students pay fees but then, the student union has been fighting against it. not sure where it is now.
My wife did her 2nd master degree and paid nothing. In turn, she got one of the best education and also got paid for housing support. net-net this bit itself must've been worth ~ € 40k if not more when compared to the same in US or UK.

I'm happy I had earned back pretty much all the taxes I have paid in Finland.

Employment/Unemployment support - Gives a sense of security to know there is a safety net which is what the government provides in monetary support for a set duration of time while also assisting in getting a job closely fitting the education qualification. There are rules against hire & fire in large companies unlike in US where I have personally seen people lose jobs in days if not weeks. In my opinion, having a work visa with employer dependency has created a certain amount of toxicity in the US with employers clearly taking advantage. This could be a very biased comment but it is from my perspective only.

Healthcare - Being used to English medicine practices in India and similar in US, the first expectation from a doctor after a diagnosis is a prescription of drugs. Most of us are still tuned to this. However, the first time wife visited a doctor for a diagnosis and sought a prescription, the doctor shockingly asked - 'why?' and quickly reverted with a natural solution - Blueberries. Doctor even recommended us to pick berries from the woods and not buy the Spanish farmed blueberries from the super market. This actually worked wonders for many years ! In general we led a more healthier life. Remedy for fever, Headache etc - take rest for 3 days. Doctor will write a letter to the employer to grant leave.

Cost of medicine is another aspect to note. All prescription drugs have a subsidized price facilitated by Kela. Furthermore, if the annual cost of prescription drugs exceeds € 600, the cost of medicines drops down to as low as € 2 regardless of their sticker price or exclusivity of the same.
The kind of care is what my wife received when she was pregnant. Dedicated Post delivery care for child and mother was simply outstanding and cost us only € 100. Universal healthcare system ensures quality of care is the same regardless of one's income, religion, social status, nationality or Insurance provider.

Safety - Much like in the US, Finns love their guns. there are more than 1.5 Million registered weapons in a country of 5.5 Mn population but yet, there is barely case of gun violence. Most weapons are used for hunting where Rifles and shotguns show up. Also, there is a general sense of safety in all times of the day in almost all parts of the country which is quite comforting unlike the cases of gun violence we keep seeing in US every now and then. Some hue and cry about Gun Control and the voices die. Nothing changes. In general, even common cases of child kidnapping, Mugging, stabbing are all common news in US which is a disturbing fact most end up living with it in hindsight.

I can go on and on but most of these are fundamental Capitalism v/s Socialism differences and it was clear that socialism is what we seemed to have liked.

Suffice to say, we sort of decided to return to Finland at some point in life. US stint was on L1A which meant GC process was way shorter. New plan was to take the GC and then take a call whether or not we would continue living in US hoping the comparison to Finland would die gradually.

Note - most of the social welfare benefits are common across most European countries. Some aspects could be tuned to local demographics.