[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

Nikhil, I think you have correctly answered the original question, I don't think it was a matter to save a few bucks, it was a query on correct balancing techniques.

How much does the expertise of the man performing balancing count? Is it solely dependant on the hitech machines that you have?

Balancing depends more on the machine. something like 90% machine, 10% technician.

All the technician does is mount the wheel on the shaft, input the dimensions and run it. Then just attach the weights. Nothing more. The machine is the most important factor here.

[Path_Finder]

Thanks for the clarifications – it will also be good to explain wheel alignment and how it is different from balancing.

[aah78]

Originally Posted by Path_Finder

Thanks for the clarifications – it will also be good to explain wheel alignment and how it is different from balancing.

Basic layman's difference between wheel alignment and wheel balancing - the former affects the wheel (hubs, if I may), the latter affects the alloy / steel rim, on which your tyre is mounted.

While performing a wheel alignment, the toe and camber (funky names for angles) are adjusted so that the car's wheels are as parallel to each other as possilble, and make an angle as close to 90deg with the road as possible. Suspension settings are taken into account.

If you see a truck or taxi on Indian roads, you'll notice a lot of them appear to have the body pointing in a slightly off-angle, compared to the wheel, and yet they're managing to move straight somehow - such a vehicle is desperately yearning for a wheel alignment.

Nikhilb2008 and others have laid out great information.
irags - we await your picturesque writeup.

To add some a few more cents worth from my side:
Even though your new alloy wheel is nice and round it's not a perfect product. There is some imperfection in the alloying process, which leads to the weight imbalance.
Same goes for your tyre. Due to the different materials used in the manufacture of a single tyre, the weight imbalance is expected.

Wheel balancing is performed to balance out these imperfections so that the tyre and wheel combo can rotate without vibrating.
You see a car on the road with it's wheel bouncing unnaturally or vibrating like a dying spinning-top, you know the fellow needs to spend some money on getting his wheel balanced.

Using old / new weights isn't the issue here because it's only in very rare cases that a wheel without a tire mounted on it is balanced.
The tyre is aligned with the wheel in such a way that the heaviest points of each face away from each other. Weights are then added to points to negate the imbalance.

Nowadays a new technique called Road Force Balance is becoming popular. A balancing machine having this road force technology basically has a surface along which the tyre & wheel combo is run, to simulate a real world road surface. The effects of minor variations in the surface are checked by bouncing the combo, and weights are added to balance this effect.

I spoke to a tyre expert today, and he said that the Road Force system helps in balancing certain after-market rims, which are difficult to balance as they have a less stricter quality norms compared to an OEM / well known manufacturer like BBS.

[libocta]

I'm planning to change the rims of my month old Fiesta (~ 500kms) to Alloys. After going through several threads on this topic, it appears i dont need to do wheel alignment (WA) but surely need to go for Wheel balancing(WB).

So questions:
1) is my understanding that i DONT need wheel alignment once i add alloys to my new car correct?
2) any recommendation on where i can get this job done in mumbai, esp in/around andheri(E).
3) rough idea of the costs involved for WA &WB

Thanks!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by libocta

1) is my understanding that i DONT need wheel alignment once i add alloys to my new car correct?

I'd still get the wheel alignment done. Most alloy dealers will do it for free anyways when you buy a new set of wheels from them.

2) any recommendation on where i can get this job done in mumbai, esp in/around andheri(E).

Go to Saifee Tyres in Santacruz. Very honest & straight forward in dealing; I have got pretty much all my alloys from him. Speak to Jeetubhai on 2649.3819 / 2649.0573

[WasavaTyres]

Originally Posted by libocta

After going through several threads on this topic, it appears i dont need to do wheel alignment (WA) but surely need to go for Wheel balancing(WB).

So questions:
1) is my understanding that i DONT need wheel alignment once i add alloys to my new car correct?

3) rough idea of the costs involved for WA &WB

By mounting alloys on your car there is no way you can avoid wheel alignment. Wheel alignment settings are done using components of your car's suspension (tie rod ends and camber / caster bolts). As for the neccesity of wheel balancing aah78 has done a very explanatory job for the same

Costs would vary from dealer to dealer. No standardisation of prices there.

[libocta]

Originally Posted by WasavaTyres

By mounting alloys on your car there is no way you can avoid wheel alignment. Wheel alignment settings are done using components of your car's suspension (tie rod ends and camber / caster bolts). As for the neccesity of wheel balancing aah78 has done a very explanatory job for the same

Costs would vary from dealer to dealer. No standardisation of prices there.

Hey Wasava,

Here is your earlier post:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...tml#post334221

Then you seemed to feel that alignment is not needed if changing the rims to alloys.
So why a different opinion now?
This is only for my understanding

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by aah78

Nowadays a new technique called Road Force Balance is becoming popular. A balancing machine having this road force technology basically has a surface along which the tyre & wheel combo is run, to simulate a real world road surface. The effects of minor variations in the surface are checked by bouncing the combo, and weights are added to balance this effect.

I spoke to a tyre expert today, and he said that the Road Force system helps in balancing certain after-market rims, which are difficult to balance as they have a less stricter quality norms compared to an OEM / well known manufacturer like BBS.

GSP9700 Road Force Measurement System

Check out this machine. It is simply awesome. A little expensive for Indian usage though. Hardly anybody buys this. In India, people dont care abt quality. They only want FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want Free alignment and balancing!! If dealers invest a ton of money in these machines, it is their right to charge the customer. Unfortunately the Indian market isnt mature enough yet. Price is given preference over quality.

Anyway coming back to the Road Force measurement.

This is mainly used to correct dragging problems even if the tyre is perfectly balanced and the wheels are properly aligned.

[Chewbacca]

I am reviving this old thread instead of starting a new one. I have a very relevant question and could not find an answer anywhere else.

I happen to be very fussy about wheels and tyres. I do balancing of all tyres every 4000 kms or immediately after a puncher fix (mushroom type fix which requires separating the tyre from the wheel). When it is time to re-balance the wheel I jack up the vehicle at home, remove and clean the entire wheel thoroughly with water, then remove the small pebbles struck in the thread and then take the wheel to the tyre shop for re-balancing. This has been my routine for many years and I feel content that I am such a perfectionist !!

Today I had to fix a puncher and followed the same routing of removing and cleaning and carrying just the wheel to the shop. After fixing the puncher, while balancing, they pasted 45 grams of weight to balance the tyre. After reaching home I noticed that the weights were not holding firmly and could be easily removed with just my fingers!! This was not acceptable to me so I removed them all and marked the spot with a marker pen. Not being happy with the shoddy job, I went to a different tyre shop to see what their machine said and check their quality of weights. To my horror the machine showed 80 grams imbalance and the spot for fixing weights was 10~15 degrees away from the marked spot. I prevented them from pasting the weights and simply marked the 2nd spot with a marker pen.

Then I headed to the 3rd shop and their machine showed 30 grams imbalance but thankfully at the same spot as the 2nd one.

If there is so much deviation between 3 shops; all of them being reputed and in business for 10+ years in Pune, how would we know which machine to trust? The whole purpose of wheel balancing gets defeated. Any suggestions?