[headers]

Originally Posted by Zed

To classify all types of automatic transmissions under a single 'AT' umbrella makes no sense. There are advanced autoboxes with launch control ( engine gets revved before the AT engages ) and throttle-blips before downshifts. I would stick my neck out and say that the advanced ATs in combination with dual clutches can given even the best driver with an MT a run for his money.

Thanks, you stole the exact words I was looking for

Advanced AT s are such fun that manuals feel insecure and llost

[dezrskb]

Hi people,
I have now nearly decided on a new sedan and most probably it will be between 2.0L engine of Laura or VW New Jetta. Now my issue is - if finance is not an issue, should I go for an automatic or manual (I have uesd manual shifts all my life -that's to say in last 10yrs of my driving). Now that these cars I mentioned above have DSG gearbox of Volkswagen which is supposed to be a good thing as per most of the people who have experinced them, should I go for them? I test drove a new Jetta Automatic yesterday. In regular D mode, it shifts upwards slightly slower than I am used to (thats to say less sporty). In Sports mode it holds higher RPMs before shifting. But I guess it cant replace my shifting gears in anticipation of a situation. I will be using it in city most of the time but there will be highway drives as well. I am under the impression right now that for a sedate driver, automatic is better and I ask for a driving enthusiast like me, is it worth shelling extra money on an automatic shift also risking theoretically higher chances of failure (simply because there is more mechanics that can fail) and higher repair costs when I feel completely at home with manual? Is Automatic going to increase my driving pleasure?

[headers]

With paddle shifts..yes driving experience is better..

I am in a similar dilemma too

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

I test drove a new Jetta Automatic yesterday. In regular D mode, it shifts upwards slightly slower than I am used to (thats to say less sporty). In Sports mode it holds higher RPMs before shifting. But I guess it cant replace my shifting gears in anticipation of a situation. I will be using it in city most of the time but there will be highway drives as well. I am under the impression right now that for a sedate driver, automatic is better and I ask for a driving enthusiast like me, is it worth shelling extra money on an automatic shift also risking theoretically higher chances of failure (simply because there is more mechanics that can fail) and higher repair costs when I feel completely at home with manual? Is Automatic going to increase my driving pleasure?

There are 2 questions here.

1. Which is more pleasurable for an enthusiast? Well, certainly the manual, not because you will shift better than the AT (DSGs are terrifyingly precise) but because to an enthusiast, being in complete control of the all the functions of the car gives that feeling of enthusiasm and that rush of adrenaline.

2. Which is more reliable? Arguably, the manual again, at least when it comes to most cars. Simply because manual gear technology has been there since donkey cart's years now.

[headers]

Beg to differ sir..automatics are reliable and more efficient.

Manuals are old tech.

Todays driving is definitely a lot easier than driving cars of yester years..be it automatic or manual..

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by headers

Beg to differ sir..automatics are reliable and more efficient.

How many Skoda manual gearbox failures have been seen?
How many Skoda manual clutch failures have been seen?

On another front, even in Volvos, the failure rates of the AT units exceeds that of the manuals.

ATs are definitely new tech and are "supposed" to be more efficient but their failure rates to continue to be higher due the complexity of their construction and parts.

[headers]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

How many Skoda manual gearbox failures have been seen?
How many Skoda manual clutch failures have been seen?

On another front, even in Volvos, the failure rates of the AT units exceeds that of the manuals.

ATs are definitely new tech and are "supposed" to be more efficient but their failure rates to continue to be higher due the complexity of their construction and parts.

Sir, skoda is not the bench Mark.

And look at a global scale and you'll follow what I meant.

Our poor maintenance practices add to the problems too..

[dezrskb]

Hi all,
Certainly automatic is a fantastic invention and makes the driving that much more easier and less complicated. But for somebody like me who has been driving manual ever since my first car 10 yrs back, changing gears comes as naturally as walking and doesn't make it difficult. What I am asking is 1. Is manual that inferior? Should I go automatic way just because I can afford it? 2. Am I not saving money and risking one less complicated mechanical part which can fail? especially when it costs less to buy a new manual vs new automatic in same? Also repair rates if at all it fails is quite high? Isn't there a extra servicing required at 40K with automatic? I understand in North America where so many have been driving automatics since the beginning find it difficult to learn manual shift driving. What I am asking is when I can drive a manual with equal ease, should I go the automatic way by shelling out extra money? is it that superior?

[headers]

^^^^
Sir, if you are comfortable with a manual, there is no reason to change.

Good automatics are available only from Audi, Mercedes and BMW currently in India..afaik.

The rest are all secondary when it comes to driving pleasure.

[manim]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Is Automatic going to increase my driving pleasure?

Having driven manuals for 25 years of my life, I switched to Civic-AT as my first AT car.

Now (after 5 years and 1.2 lakh kms) I will never go back to manual again.

It takes sometime to get used to a particular AT model but once I got used to mine, the gear changes can be coaxed perfectly with the right foot. It is as if I have a telepathic connection with the transmission.

The driving pleasure is in no way diminished.
In fact, I never felt the need of the paddle-shifts, except in very, very rare circumstances.

Modern day automatics with their electronics and sensors are getting more and more better that manuals will go extinct someday in the future (my opinion).

I think manuals will be in future only for racing, which is forbidden on regular roads.

[dezrskb]

Hi to everybody who is using an automatic.
Just wanted to know how easy or difficult it is to use an automatic while climbing uphill or while coming down? for example to and from a hill station? While coming down do you have to keep manually downshifting or do you need to use brakes excessively? I understand there is no so called "engine braking" in automatic. Does it keep shifting up when coming downhill? I know DSG has something called triptonic where I can manually downshift sequentially in D mode. But how long does it stay in this mode? Repeated use of this produces any extra strain on DSG box?
I hope you understand I have concerns regarding automatics as I have never owned one and having remained in control all the time with a manual shift, I find this forum best place to search answers as I hardly get any reliable information from a sales agent and members of this forum are well informed.

[jacksons]

After buying A* Auto last year, one of m relative told me that my wife likes it as its very fast and since then I also find it very fast as I am very lazy in shifting gears.

[Zed]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Hi people,
I have now nearly decided on a new sedan and most probably it will be between 2.0L engine of Laura or VW New Jetta.
I will be using it in city most of the time but there will be highway drives as well.

If you are going to be spending most of your time in the city the automatic makes sense. I mean how much fun can you possibly have swapping gears in bumper to bumper traffic? Thats not to say that the DGS is no good on the highway. From two years of personal experience with my passat, I do not think it took away from the highway driving experience but just made things easier for my left foot and right hand. Inputs to the throttle govern gear shifts even in 'D' mode so its not all doom and gloom with regards to control and performance, as rightly mentioned in an earlier post.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Hi all,
Certainly automatic is a fantastic invention and makes the driving that much more easier and less complicated. But for somebody like me who has been driving manual ever since my first car 10 yrs back, changing gears comes as naturally as walking and doesn't make it difficult.
What I am asking is 1. What I am asking is when I can drive a manual with equal ease, should I go the automatic way by shelling out extra money? is it that superior?

There are some folks that shift to automatics because changing gears is a just a task to them. Then there are others - and I believe I belong to this category - who have no problems with manuals and perhaps even enjoy the odd wheel spin or two but find that modern automatics deliver the same level of performance with reduced effort. For one I find the physical effort (keeping mental satisfaction and other intangibles aside for the sake of objectivity) associated with driving is reduced with Automatics.

Originally Posted by headers

^^^^
Sir, if you are comfortable with a manual, there is no reason to change.

Good automatics are available only from Audi, Mercedes and BMW currently in India..afaik.

The rest are all secondary when it comes to driving pleasure.

I have to say that I have a different perspective. Having driven an automatic i10 and the manual version of the same car in city traffic - I found driving the automatic more enjoyable and far less stressful. Again my definition of driving pleasure is not centred around wheel spins and power sliding through corners. Well atleast not anymore

[manim]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Just wanted to know how easy or difficult it is to use an automatic while climbing uphill or while coming down? for example to and from a hill station?

I do regular hill-driving on the Nilgiris mountains (Ooty, Coonoor) and the AT on the Civic is perfect.

The Civic has something called 'grade-logic-control' which reduces 'hunting' gears.

Only when coming down on very steep slopes I force from the paddle to hold first-gear.
Otherwise nearly 100% of the time the 'D' mode does its job perfectly.

[d_himan]

I drove MTs for 15 years and now my garage has 2 ATs (old tech torque converter). My experience is strictly non-DSG.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Hi all,
What I am asking is 1. Is manual that inferior? Should I go automatic way just because I can afford it?

Certainly not. Good shifting manuals are great fun. However, if a lot of my driving is in a busy city, I would buy an AT - eyes closed. Nothing beats the convenience of a driving an AT in bumper to bumper commutes.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

2. Am I not saving money and risking one less complicated mechanical part which can fail? especially when it costs less to buy a new manual vs new automatic in same?

If you're buying a new car, you can take an extended warranty and sleep peacefully. Normal Torque Converter ATs are robust units (ask me - I have a 10 year old AT). ATF (AT Fluid) changes every 30K and adding a good transmission filter help tremendously in prolonging life of the transmission if it's driven exclusively in the city. This can be done after 5 years of usage.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Also repair rates if at all it fails is quite high? Isn't there a extra servicing required at 40K with automatic?

Yes, repair rates are high. There are enough skilled mechanics in a city like Mumbai for repairing normal torque converter ATs once it's out of the warranty period. If ATF is changed regularly as mentioned above for rough usage, I don't think there will much of an issue.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

I understand in North America where so many have been driving automatics since the beginning find it difficult to learn manual shift driving. What I am asking is when I can drive a manual with equal ease, should I go the automatic way by shelling out extra money? is it that superior?

It's not a question of 'superior'/'inferior' - rather, it's about your driving environment : urban/semi-urban/rural/highway environment. I can drive a manual perfectly well but am never going back to them as long as I have a crowded city commute.

In case you live in Udupi and travel in hilly areas, my suggestion is to stick to a manual.