[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Its manual for me here in India and if I'm in Western Europe or the US I'll love the automatic transmission.
Oh yes, if its a long highway (good road) drive for me in India, its again preference for the automatic transmission.

That preference I don't understand. On a good highway gear change is very much less; an incline or an overtake might ask for a change from 5 down to 4, but mostly there is little to do with the gears.

In the city, stop/start, crawl/sprint, there is nothing but gear and clutch work, and most of it is just tedious exercise for the left leg.

Serious first-gear acceleration, in the city, is usually followed, mere moments later, by serious brake work. A brief thrill, perhaps, but the real result is just higher fuel bills!

I think a manual gearbox can become fun in those situations where car controls really matters, and can be as much an art as anything else: the rural road, with curves and hills. Maybe the mountain road? But that is something that I have yet to experience.

But, point and counterpoint... Why do you prefer the manual box for the city?

[trrk]

Hi Thad,

> I think a manual gearbox can become fun in those situations where car
> controls really matters, and can be as much an art as anything else: the
> rural road, with curves and hills. Maybe the mountain road? But that is
> something that I have yet to experience.

Well, I enjoy automatics in the town / city or even crowded highways as well as the twisty stuff in the plains as well as the hills ( at least the little that I have done so far). I agree that car control with the gear box is an art and I have enjoyed my share of it in my years of driving, but why not an automatic which reduces the efforts in driving?

> In the city, stop/start, crawl/sprint, there is nothing but gear and clutch
> work, and most of it is just tedious exercise for the left leg.

Autmoatics are best in the above situation. Reminds me of days in 1996-1997 when I had a Cielo AT. In the service centre I met a person who had taken a manual version about the same time as my vehicle. He was under the belief that automatics are better suited for the highways and will not work well in towns and the then dealers' sales people never knew enough to tell him the actual facts. He was regretting his decision to go for the manual version.

Modern automatics are a much improved lot.

[Jr Godzilla]

It all depends on the Transmission Gearing Ratios in a Manual, get that wrong and you have a couch potato in the drivers seat.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by trrk

but why not an automatic which reduces the efforts in driving?

I'm all for it! Very much in favour, and as I said before, the lever is always there in an auto, giving the best of both worlds.

I do think it is good for all drivers to be experienced with clutch and gear control.

[headers]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

That preference I don't understand. On a good highway gear change is very much less; an incline or an overtake might ask for a change from 5 down to 4, but mostly there is little to do with the gears.

In the city, stop/start, crawl/sprint, there is nothing but gear and clutch work, and most of it is just tedious exercise for the left leg.

Serious first-gear acceleration, in the city, is usually followed, mere moments later, by serious brake work. A brief thrill, perhaps, but the real result is just higher fuel bills!

Some people have a different POV!

Originally Posted by trrk

Modern automatics are a much improved lot.

Sir, we are talking about the faster accelarating car here, not which is more comfortable! While i do agree with you in a certain angle, let us not steer away from the main title!

Originally Posted by Jr Godzilla

It all depends on the Transmission Gearing Ratios in a Manual, get that wrong and you have a couch potato in the drivers seat.

One has no control on that sir! Unless you want to start off in 3rd gear all the time!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm all for it! Very much in favour, and as I said before, the lever is always there in an auto, giving the best of both worlds.

I do think it is good for all drivers to be experienced with clutch and gear control.

Sir I missed your point. DO you prefer autos or manual? Which is faster in your opinion?

[Thad E Ginathom]

DO you prefer autos or manual? Which is faster in your opinion?

I think I've said, clearly, that an auto never has that ultimate first-gear push that burns rubber and fuel.

But it has been commented by others that the more expensive cars, with sports settings and the like, do measure up in the acceleration stakes.

So my answer is, according to the cars I have personally driven, manual, but, taking into account experiences of the sort of car I could never afford, neither, and in some, the auto may even have the edge.

[vgupta]

I currently drive Skoda Laura AT and before that was driving OHC VTEC for almost 5 years. The AT was really faster, i moved to AT mainly because of the bangalore city traffic but it was a sweet surprise to realize that the pick on the AT was faster.

[deepakvrao]

Originally Posted by vgupta

I currently drive Skoda Laura AT and before that was driving OHC VTEC for almost 5 years. The AT was really faster, i moved to AT mainly because of the bangalore city traffic but it was a sweet surprise to realize that the pick on the AT was faster.

I agree that the Laura DSG is great but you are comparing two different cars/engines and fuel types here so this mught not be the ideal comparison?

[prabhuav]

I am a diehard manual fan. Have never bought an automatic and probably never will. (Only exception was an inherited minivan in Atlanta). In terms of acceleration, the slush boxes do not hold a candle to the manuals. But the newer generation electonically controlled manual, ala the VW DSG come close, and in case of the exotics can shift gears in half the time that normal people can. My .02$

[narayan]

its Manual for me because i somehow have this feeling that the brains GOD gave me can act far better than the brains MAN gave to cars..

also I heavily use engine braking which I think one doesnt get in an AUTO

but I am curious what is the typical CLUTCH life in a MANUAL vs AUTO scenario ??

[deepakvrao]

Originally Posted by narayan

its Manual for me because i somehow have this feeling that the brains GOD gave me can act far better than the brains MAN gave to cars..

I doubt that it would be 'faster' than the new automatics.

And of course the brains that MAN gave to cars is CONSISTENT while the brains that GOD gave to MAN is NOT.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by narayan

its Manual for me because i somehow have this feeling that the brains GOD gave me can act far better than the brains MAN gave to cars..

also I heavily use engine braking which I think one doesnt get in an AUTO

but I am curious what is the typical CLUTCH life in a MANUAL vs AUTO scenario ??

Sorry, Narayan, but the poor effectiveness of god-given brains at driving can be seen on the street almost every minute.

Not speaking of your brain, of course .

Engine braking: I think some of the more modern autos give better engine braking, but as I keep on saying: there is always the lever! You can have all your low gear acceleration, and your engine braking, just by reaching out the left hand as you would in your Manual --- just there isn't a clutch to worry about.

Clutch wear: there isn't one, so it doesn't.

To be honest, I'm not sure if any auto box uses physical-contact plates; I think they are more likely to use hydraulic torq converters.

In my experience of older automatics, this is what lets down the auto; the energy lost in spinning up that fluid in the torq converter, leaving one with the feeling, for a few moments, that the engine is revving but the car isn't going anywhere.

In my Civic (ancient, original model, 13 yrs old when I had it), that felt more like minutes than moments, sometimes --- but that was one old car.

[headers]

Originally Posted by deepakvrao

I doubt that it would be 'faster' than the new automatics.

I agree that the new automatics are much much faster.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Engine braking: I think some of the more modern autos give better engine braking, but as I keep on saying: there is always the lever! You can have all your low gear acceleration, and your engine braking, just by reaching out the left hand as you would in your Manual --- just there isn't a clutch to worry about.

Yeah, Narayan, time to experience an auto and use that Engine Braking to full!

Manuals are fun in the race track or a rally where one wants to hold onto the higher gear, but even there, I would prefer the paddle shift in manual mode to do the same.

The time taken for the gear shift is very very fast compared to the manual transmissions!

[GTO]

Engine braking: I think some of the more modern autos give better engine braking,

You know what, I have been experimenting with engine braking in a Laura DSG. It's simply not the same or as effective as on a manual. For instance, if I intend to slow down from a higher speed, I'd gradually let the clutch in. The same was a bit too abrupt in the Laura (result = high rpm).

[headers]

maybe thats what he means when he says "better engine braking". A sudden drop in a gear to use the engine capabilities better than gradually slowing doing the same.

I agree though that the gradual method is more comfortable for the passengers.