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Old 7th March 2012, 12:44   #31
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

I have been driving the Vista since close to 4 years now. Yes, I admit the car has had its share of flaws but then are we trying to say that the Swift is picture perfect. No Swift has ever failed? A colleague of mine had bought his swift just 6 months before I bought my Vista and although his mileage has been lower than mine its also given him issues. Even he's got his clutch changed just like me. However his being a LDi is super bare bone compared to the Aura model that I have. I have always observed that he seldom complains about his car unlike me who is always expecting a perfect car from that Tata stable.
As far as TASS is concerned I have had a fantastic relationship with them since a long time now. I have always been treated in the nicest manner and they have assured that work is done on time. Even in extended warranty they have changed parts without cost which are not covered in it. I have had my whole hatch cover replaced some time back since there was some rust developing. Even though the TASS proved it to me that the rusting was due to the person washing my car with hard water (don't know why he did it). They could have refused to replace it but under good faith they replaced it without a single rupee.

Taxi image? I have also thought why Indica's are preferred as taxis and have even asked a few of them. I have received these common answers:
Spares are easily available, in fact they told me that after Premier Padmini, Indica was the one whose spares are available everywhere.
Body of the Indica is much more stronger than any of the Maruti cars. Taxi's are mostly driven rashly and hence Indica's could take the abuse without any complaints
Space: This car has space much more than any car in its segment.
If these are the reason then I am proud to say I drive a Taxi.

I have been a Maruti loyalist since the last 16 odd years - Omni, 800, Esteem, Zen have been with me in all these years. I had test driven the Swift a few mins before I put my money on the Vista just to be sure I don't regret.
Today after 40 months of ownership I don't regret 1 big that I bought the Vista.

A small request to all over here: If you have not even test driven the Vista, please don't criticize it. You don't even know what you are missing!

P.S. A lot of people say that fun factor is absent in the Vista! ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 7th March 2012, 12:48   #32
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

I have fare amount of experience with Vista and Swift. I own Vista QJD for 3 years and have completed 70,000 kms in it. All my friends own swift and I had driven those cars on lot of occasions for long drives. Same case with Figo as well. I would share my opinion here.

When the question of comparison comes between Vista and Swift I think both are equal considering overall points. As everbody mentioned Vista scores on following points

1) Ride Quality is best in class. but poor handling
2) Low in cabin noise compared to all diesel cars in cateogery.
3) Drivability and in gear acceleration is superb. Third and fourth gear are absolute delight. First and second gear are sore points as these two gears have very less range.
4) Space Space Space
5) Features

Swift Scores on following points
1) Superb Handling but poor ride quality
2) Image and Suzuki Badge
3) Reliability
4) Service Quality
5) Easy on maintenance

Indica badge is more of concern for city people. If you go countryside Indica stands for ruggedness where Maruti scores less points. I do not know why but this is fact came across when I interacted with these people. For these people Swift is show car and Indica name is for workhorse. So people who wants to show, buys swift and who want to use the car for tough purposes buys Indica. Countryside people buy genrally entry level model which has low levels of electronics in car, so niggling issues are not concern for these people. Tata cars are less reliable on this front.

When you come to city Indica has earned really bad name due to taxi image and frequent brakedowns seen on road transfers to the less reliability. Cabs are really in bad shaped and maintained so what we see is what we perceive. Tata cars are mechanically stronger but has poor reliability on the front of electronic features. People from city need cars with features and this is the point where tata cars are not reliable. What educated people perceive and understand is really difficult to change. Indica is bad and Tata is bad makes their shift to Maruti cars. I have seen three such cases. They did not even want to experience Tata cars. Because they think Indica was bad and so Tata.

And two of my friends who are technically superb but unfortunately for them Indica and Vista are based on same platform(which is not the case), only cosmetic changes are done for new Vista. This was really turning point for them because they perceived Indica is bad car so Vista. Enough said about image...

Coming back to Swift and Vista comparison apart from brand and image, here are the differences

1) Ride Quality is really top notch in Vista compared to Swift
2) Handling is superb in Swift
3) Engine and road noise is much lesser for Vista
4) Rattling is well controlled in Vista. Swift if not well maintained is true rattle box.
5) Swift is real fun to drive car
6) Vista is mile cruncher
7) City drivability is better in Vista
8) Lesser turbo lag in Vista but strong turbo kick in Swift
9) Overtaking is a breeze in Swift
10) Steering is not precise in Vista. I can not correlate sudden steering turns and road behavior. Try driving both cars zigzag, difference is evident in Vista and Swift. Swift is fun and Vista is stick in a mud.
11) Gear shift quality is better in swift and acceptable in Vista
12) Service centers for maruti can be dependable. But for tata you need to have some knowledge about cars otherwise you will definitely get fleeced.
13) Features which are plenty in Vista are the real culprit for niggling issue. Quality on this front is really poor. Swift will not have any problem till the end of life.
14) Due to soft suspension, Vista touches its belly often on countryside roads.

I can say I am really happy with Vista for gone three years and can't guarantee what will be in my plate for future. This is the point which makes Swift better car.

OTR: I think figo is breed of two cars. Fun to drive. Superb handling, Super precise steering, clutch is smooth, brakes are good. Space is great, boot is great. I would say Figo is much better than these two cars apart from looks.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 7th March 2012 at 13:05.
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Old 7th March 2012, 12:54   #33
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
(beyond the initial TD)
Fully agree.

There is something known as peace of mind. And a very high proportion of zero niggles ownership.

/even comparing with Micra.
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Old 7th March 2012, 13:00   #34
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
I can say I am really happy with Vista for gone three years and can't guarantee what will be in my plate for future. This is the point which makes Swift better car.
What made me to think this? I do not have any problem with my car. It is doing its duty faithfully. It is the view of other owners which makes me uncomfortable. As my car is out of warrantee and if see any failure then I am worried. It is the perception which tata cars have earned and which is really tough task to change it for Tata. I do not see any efforts on this front from Tata.
I did not have any problem for servicing the car. It is top notch but due to personal relations not because of Tata. If I go to other service centers i feel something is missing, i.e. Assurance.

The problem faced by others makes me worry about future ownership.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 7th March 2012 at 13:07.
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Old 7th March 2012, 13:42   #35
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Totally agree here, Swift is overrated and is hyped to the roof! visibility from the driver seat is pathetic and interiors very claustrophobic. I could not spend more than 30 mins at the rear seat of a Swift due to those tiny windows and the all black interiors! I love the interiors of a TATA car any day, maybe quality is a step down but the space does a loud talking than everything else.
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Old 7th March 2012, 14:52   #36
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Taxi image? I have also thought why Indica's are preferred as taxis and have even asked a few of them. I have received these common answers:
Spares are easily available, in fact they told me that after Premier Padmini, Indica was the one whose spares are available everywhere.
Body of the Indica is much more stronger than any of the Maruti cars. Taxi's are mostly driven rashly and hence Indica's could take the abuse without any complaints
Space: This car has space much more than any car in its segment.
You seem to miss the BIGGEST point of all - Indica is/was the most affordable or cheapest diesel option available and hence the taxi market accepted it with both hands. Now other points that you mentioned complemented the vehicle too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
P.S. A lot of people say that fun factor is absent in the Vista! ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now only if you could define your version of "fun factor". It definitely seem to be different from the masses' definition!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Sorry to disappoint but Vista sells more than Punto anytime!
What an uncalled for comment man! Not a single post in the thread claims Punto sells better than Vista!
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Old 7th March 2012, 15:40   #37
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

As Indica/Vista is in the market for so long, I feel it is not underrated/overrated but simply reflecting what its worth in the eyes of the customers. Remember long queues just to have a glimpse of the first true Desi car when it was launched. Then afterwards, issues, issues and issues generated good amount of negative publicity and Ratan Tata himself had to intervene to remind his own team to get their acts right. By that time damage had been done.
History being repeated again by Nano, Aria and more importantly by Toyota Etios and Liva.
Media loved the Indica and Nano and generated trillions of rupees worth goodwill and publicity absolutely FREE of charge. No one was complaining at that time. So why complain when same media highlights the negative issues. Tatas had been given so many chances and they themselves are to blame. They launched Sumo Grande which is entirely different from Sumo but still they named it Sumo Grande and by the time they realised their mistake, it was too late. Same goes for Indica/Vista and Manza. Wouldn't it felt nice if they launched it as Vista from day one. Its kind of stuck in people's mind. On top of it they report their sales figures as same for both the cars. So the customer would be bound to consider the Vista as of having similar image as Indica.
Tatas are having a mindset for so long that their primary and only customers are CV owners/taxiwallas and not executives or family and that is why taxiwallas/Sumo owners are more than happy with them as compared to Safari owners. Same goes for Mahindra too but its changing with XUV500.
One can summarize that the image of Tata is like Action, Lakhani or Liberty in shoes whereas Maruti is like Bata (foreign brand so old that people feel its an Indian one). (NO offense to anyone)
PS : Fiat has left themselves at the mercy of Tata for SALES, MARKETING and A.S.S. Tatas are struggling with their own customers, how they will handle and how have they handled them is there for everyone to see.
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Old 7th March 2012, 16:01   #38
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
You seem to miss the BIGGEST point of all - Indica is/was the most affordable or cheapest diesel option available and hence the taxi market accepted it with both hands. Now other points that you mentioned complemented the vehicle too.
Spot on.

Indica sells in the taxi market not for it's perceived reliability but because it is the cheapest diesel available in the country & the TDi engine is known to give good fuel efficiency. Secondly, the cost of spares, serviceability in local garages & so on...

A typical tourist cab owner would use the car for 3-4 years & sell it off, so he is not worried about long term reliability or resale value either.
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Old 7th March 2012, 16:16   #39
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

The only 2 points that I considered while buying a car that went against Vista were A.S.S and handling.
A.S.S - I had a horrible experience of TATA A.S.S when I used to drive my BIL's Vista.

Handling - Does not inspire confidence especially on highways

Will I consider a Vista in future? Most definitively. I still consider VISTA the most VFM car in it's segment. I'm willing to overlook handling if TATA can get the A.S.S right.
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Old 7th March 2012, 16:43   #40
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

A car is more than just a product for most people. It is the second most expensive thing a person buys in his lifetime (other than a house) and also probably is the most emotionally connected posession. No wonder we have Vista owners falling head over heels to come out in support of their "baby". However , to quote the puchline of the Honda Jazz - "WHY SO SERIOUS?"

VFM is for the people who buy apparel at Big Bazaar. The biggest feature of the Swift is - IT TUGS AT YOUR HEART STRINGS !! both owners and passerby's alike.

That, above all other reasons (handling, FE, service, blah..blah..), is the reason why the Swift is "Overrated"

Last edited by gitartha : 7th March 2012 at 16:47.
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Old 7th March 2012, 16:47   #41
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Well a car is only good or bad depending on your requirements! What may work for some may not work for others.

We have a Swift Ldi in the family which has done 90k kms. Agreed its a fun to drive car & is low on maintenance but it has quite a few negative points as mostly the car is chauffeur driven everyday & i drive it occasionally.
- Bad ride quality
- Claustrophobic interiors
- Bland interiors. I'm sick of black interiors as my Octavia also has black interiors!
- Engine noise has become more audible over a period of time
- Cramped rear seat. My parents sit at the back & i dont know how they manage sitting there everyday. I avoid sitting at the back.

Offcourse when i'm in the drivers seat its a completely different story but then i dont drive that much and its mostly in moderate traffic so it wouldn't make any difference whether i'm in a Vista, Swift or a Punto.

I'm trying to convince my dad to buy the Vista as it suits our requirements but he's looking at the new Dzire which is essentially the same car as our present Swift from the inside apart from a few differences.

We used to own 2 of the earlier generations of the Indica and i used to absolutely love the space it used to offer. I tried convincing my dad that the Vista is more spacious than our Octavia but he refuses to believe me!
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Old 7th March 2012, 17:54   #42
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

Swift has its own fun factor in terms of driveability : yes
Resale value is high : yes
Better Looks: yes
After Sales Service of Maruti is good: yes

Now, I absolutely agree to all the above points. However all those making negative comments or fighting to prove that Vista is indeed second in comparison to Swift haven't even bothered to test drive the Refreshed Vista. I am talking about the Refreshed Vista and not the Vista which was launched 3 years ago.

1. Fun Factor: It's there. Absolutely. Throw the car around and you would realize. People who say that Ritz is fun to go around haven't driven the Ritz above 100. It's a camel ride. I have driven my dad's Ritz.

2. Looks: They are subjective. Many say that the Christmas lights are a decade old. But dear, so are the ones on the CR-V. People still like them on a 20+ lakh car.

3. Space: Swift will only eat dust in this matter. Did I read someone saying that Vista has Sumo type seating. ROFL! You haven't sat in the new Vista. The rear seat comfort is like a sofa. 3 adults can seat damn easily. The driver or the co-passenger, no matter how tall (6 feet) don't see their shin touching the steering or the centre console. They sit relaxed.

4. Clutch failing on a highway: My friends new swift in mumbai had a total electrical failure wherein the Power Steering went kaput, engine stalled, steering column locked and brakes failed on the Western Express Highway. To his savior the time was 3:30 am and the roads were empty and he could get the car to stop with the handbrakes from a speed of 80kmph. We have also read a story about Faridabad's 1st Swift ZDi being replaced by Maruti. Problem's are everywhere.

5. Centre Mounted Console: You seriously need to drive the Vista to feel th difference. This is not a sore point, but a big advantage in city driving conditions. You get a clear view of the object ahead.

6. Turbokick: You are talking about the old swift which had the kick@2000rpm. Try the Vista which kicks in @1700rpm. Rocks!

Why the Swift scores high: Coz when the Swift was launched, Vista was Indica and was a pure taxi car. When the DDiS on the Swift was launched, Vista was non-existent and therefore the trend continues. However with the delay in deliveries, people have tried the Vista and are HAPPY.

The question is "When are you trying yours to change the perception"?
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Old 7th March 2012, 18:44   #43
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

I have read this entire thread from the 1st page till the last one. Read strong remarks and comments on How good Swift is and how good Vista is. Also that Swift is driver's car and Vista is not. The taxi feel and other comments.

Here goes my story. I bought an Indica DLX V2 in September 2002. It did great duty in the last 9 1/2 years and never broke down and left me deserted. It was a strong , stable and heavy duty car. I sold my car last week and was looking for a replacement car. I already own a Logan and love it, as its also a great car for me and has not given any issues.

So my hunt for a replacement car began, i drove Toyota Corolla, Honda City, Ford Figo and couple of other vehicles. I would go for a second hand petrol sedan or a new diesel vehicle under 6 lakhs.

After looking around for a couple of weeks, my friend said you had an indica for nearly a decade and did not have any issues, so why don't you look at Indica vista again. I told him it would be same interiors, engine, same feeling and i don't want to feel the same and want something different. He said TD the new vista first and then take a call as it's no longer the old indica and lot has changed.

Finally went for a test drive and was amazed with the makeover in the car, the engine is awesome, gearbox is good, no noise in the cabin and the car was rock solid at 120+ speeds on Hosur road. My family was shocked as this new car really turned around the expectations and feeling they had remembering the old indica.

As of now i may book a new Vista if i am not able to get any other car that suits my taste. So Vista is a big change from the old indica and you have to test drive it to feel it. From outside people may not find much change, but once you sit in and take it for a drive that's where the perception changes and the true feelings come out.

Personally i do not have anything against the Swift, but went for a drive in my friends car till Mysore and i found the seats to be pretty stiff and bad. The legroom in the rear was a pain in the legs. Also i found the vehicle to be too cramped up and light in weight. Does not give that solid build feeling. I told him that i would never go for a Swift as it did not suit my needs and does not justify the premium pricing.

So, best is to test drive the car and then take a call. I am sure there would be plenty of people out there, who have never test driven a Vista , but would comment based on the past cars feedback or from the looks outside. My suggestion to them, test drive the vehicle and then take a call.

For me the new Vista is truly Sedan class from inside and it was proven right post my test drive.

Last edited by Dushie : 7th March 2012 at 18:46.
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Old 7th March 2012, 18:46   #44
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

coming from me ( i have booked a swift) , i simply do not want to be seen driving around in an Indica, even if the Vista was a better car, brand image, looks matter a lot. Indica needs to be one hell of a looker to sell as many numbers as the swift.
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Old 7th March 2012, 18:56   #45
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Default Re: Tata Vista - Highly Underrated MJD hatchback compared to Swift ?!

These were my posts on the Vista Refresh official review thread back in October 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Test drove the Vista Refresh (VX QJD), the car and the interiors were truly delightful. Seriously thinking of buying one over the Figo / Ritz / Liva. Apart from being overall better equipped, the Vista cabin felt a lot quieter than the Figo D, Liva D, Ritz P and Ritz D. Coupled with the zero waiting periods, Vista is making quite a case for itself. Cannot comment on the after sales experience and long term reliability though but at least a TD of the new Vista is highly recommended if you are in the market looking for a comfy diesel hatch.
^^ = First time I ever sat drove a Vista and I was head over heels in love with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
OK.. Just came back from Vista Refresh TD #2. The same test car which I loved last time(9 days back), The car had run 1536km on the odo. It was super silent and super chilly. My dad came along for the TD this time around. Since we had done the Ritz D test drive only yesterday, it was easy to compare in that regard.

1km into the test drive, I was taking a right turn in 2nd gear @15kmph on a flat road. We heard a low pitched chu-chu-chu-chu noise, so I eased off the accelerator. Everything seemed fine, so I started accelerating gradually, started feeling hot all of a sudden, checked the AC. To my shock, it had stopped working. All that was working was the heater and the blower. No cooling, at 12:30PM, thats not a very nice thing to happen.

We presumed that a fuse might have blown so we pulled over to check. But the Sales Exec had no idea about the location of the fusebox. Checked the manual, called up 24 hour helpline. The person at the other end couldn't help out either. Suggested we go to TASS. I said fine, because I wanted to know what exactly went wrong. TASS technician came immediately to attend this Demo Car. Turns out we have a blown/seized compressor and it will take 4-5 days to get rectified.

I had though that the Vista is a very much improved product as compared to the old V2s. But now I understand what the current owners meant by 'Niggling Issues'.

A blown compressor is totally unacceptable at 15xxkm. I am afraid but, inspite of liking it so much on the 1st TD, the Vista has been effectively crossed off our shortlist. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
I forgot to mention some things. The car was serviced yesterday (according to the Sales Exec who brought the car to our place). And anyways, I dont think they do anything to the AirCon @1st service. Also, when I was with the AC technician @TASS (Millennium motors, Dapodi, Pune), there was talk that this might be a common issue. They had recently changed a Compressor (+ *some*condenser + some reservoir, total 3 things.) on a PDI vehicle. So the blown compressor issue is not one-off.

I am not trying to take away anything from the car itself. I loved the drive, it drove almost like an automatic in 3rd and 4th gear. Available torque in city conditions was immense. The back seat and front seat comfort was commendable. But I don't think I will be able to/willing to convince my dad on buying one now.
2 Days later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The more I TD other cars, the more I miss what Vista offers. Just did a Liva GD TD. So, after TDing Ritz, Figo,Beat, Vista and Liva, I can safely say that Vista is the most well rounded diesel city car you can buy for <6.5 lac OTR Pune. Why tata why?? Why did the aircon on the TD car had to blow? Is there any way to contact Ratan Tata directly?
After this^^ one, Dhabhar Behram sir contacted me and asked for my phone no. After waiting for him to call back for over 2 weeks, we finally went in for a Pre-owned Civic AT in the same budget. No other car could provide all-round comfort in the front as well as back seats while matching the equipment on offer within that budget. If not for the AC failure on the TD car, we would have had a Vista right now.
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