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Old 10th September 2012, 15:07   #106
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

This is how these corporations work and make profit and MSIL is not the only one.

I have attached another article which appeared in "Economic and Political weekly " October 2009 edition which gives an account of Nokia SEZ in TN. This makes an intresting read too . It talks about how rules and regulations being bent by multi-nationals through loopholes and corruption to gain profits.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Nokia story 1.pdf (252.3 KB, 242 views)
File Type: pdf Nokia story 2.pdf (298.6 KB, 171 views)
File Type: pdf Nokia story 3.pdf (280.6 KB, 269 views)
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Old 10th September 2012, 15:30   #107
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

The article reads like a lot of jobs. Even the government does not regularize teachers etc so that they can pay temporary people less. Most private educational institutions do this (they have graduate degrees). I am guessing it would be even more in manufacturing jobs. I have not heard of anyone destroying the factory and killing someone in the above cases. Even in IT people are given deadlines and guess what they work a lot more than 8 hours per day.

For us Indians, we always try to beat up someone, it happens on minor things like traffic jams etc.

That said, the govt should formulate rules (if they have time) for on job requirements relating to fatigue, minimum wage etc.(I hope they are rules already)

Last edited by srishiva : 10th September 2012 at 15:31.
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Old 10th September 2012, 15:49   #108
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

Quote:
Originally Posted by harshaguduru View Post
appreciate the sarcasm in your statement however unless the urgency is monumental dont we from childhood have enough discipline to control our urges. arent we smart enough to void our bowels and bladder when we set out on a long drive.
dont we hold it off when we are at temples or at funerals.
dont we sit for 2-3 hours in an exam hall without using the loo.
please dont nitpick and say that no one stops us during these times but my point is show that 2-3 hours without toilet breaks doesnt hurt us
unless....
we are sick. and i am sure the supervisor wouldnt stop a sick person from using the toilet. if he does so, then he wouldn't last long as a supervisor would he.
as much as the management can be blamed of being hand in glove with the local politico what about the labour union leaders. do you think they are unselfish kindly souls who have no personal agenda in all of this?

To sound rather crude even the human body cannot digest healthy organic material without generating c r a p.
there is a flip side to every action. a wonderous thing such a human birth leaves in its wake a lady in indescribable pain.
balance is crucial. and when balance cant be found or one gets too greedy it results in a LOSS-LOSS scenario as it has happened in this case.
Are you serious? would you hold your nature's calls, thirst for 8 hours every day for the whole year every working day (I am sure including saturdays)

While the workers resorted to violence, I think, they had no other way except probably quit. Their efforts to form a strong union have been thwarted by MSIL in tow with the Lobour commissioner.

I have very closely (family member involved) seen a union struggle for many years where in spite of overwhelming evidence in their favour they have lost time and again due to the currupt system, fake witnesses from the management and unbelievable orders from judges. They stuck to the law and fought again and again only to lose.


I think MSIL needs to face the fact that they messed up with their labour related practices. The disciplinary actions and vindictive policies of hitting hard against protesting workers once they returned.

For an IT guy or corporate for that matter it's easy to judge and say 'Get another Job' at the labour level there is difficult to find a job as easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolFire View Post
On the contrary, I feel the spirit of Team-BHP is firmly grounded on its not-for-profit nature and is hardly a symbol of capitalism. Non-governmental, yes, but capitalism, probably not.

For Maruti or any other similar issue, the real cure can never be made by profit oriented players alone without legal or government intervention.
+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by harshaguduru View Post
i guess i am the intelligent fool as i have related these. kindly read and read my post again to understand what i am trying to say.
you are literally comparing the jobs/background/gullibility. i am comparing the mindset of a salaried employee who works under supervision and is answerable for his mistakes. they can never be 100% satisfied with the policies of management. i may come 'an hour late for' work and think "just an hour late, the company wont collapse because of it. but if my supervisor/boss admonishes me for my tardiness do i accept my mistake or resort to violent/non-violent protests.

it is the mindset that is similar not the circumstances/education background. please donot intentionally misunderstand my posts just for the sake of argument.

if that wasnt directed at me .then ignore this post.

also consider that when land is sold by a farmer for the sake of industry , employment is not just for him and his family members but even for those in that area who have no land/ means of sustenance .
as perfect as we want this world to be, necessary evil and unwanted compromises have to be done.
system is flawed because we choose to make it flawed.
Violent protests are towards the treatment and environment in which they work, These are laborers who are accustomed to physical labour rather that intelligent work, their background education and environment is what leads to such outbursts as a natural reaction to anarchy.
They are bound to react differently than you.

For that matter if your boss were to humiliate you everyday (for years and years) and not allow loo breaks and water, I would be interested in your simulated reaction considering your family depended on you and only you and other jobs in the market were not as well paying. Please also factor in the leave and late coming situation and answer my question.
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Old 10th September 2012, 15:53   #109
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

No one can say voilence is right or there can be any justificaiton for what workers did.

To my eyes this ugly incidence and horrible death was making of Maruti-Suzuki management policies.
They bought out the union leaders last year to break strike and never implemented the tripitrate agreement ( to which Hariyana Govt was part) thus eroding the trust and closing communication channel with workers.

Read in lot of papers that word industrial relations is being rediscovered after this fiasco.

Maruti-Suzuki has demonstrated unethical corporate governence practices in past which have direct bearing on the way they can operate. A sample is highlighted below

Quote:
Originally Posted by harshaguduru View Post
c) if maruti sells 15lakh cars a year and has a net profit of about 1500-2500 crores the margins across the model range are just about 10000Rs a car( about 2-5%) Agreed this is due money spent in R&D and others but bottom line is bottom line.
Do you know why the profit is so low just about 10000 Rs ? This is because Suzuki decided to jack up the royalty after gaining control of company. Suzuki has 51% stake and as such if they declare profits and dividied then the share will be proportionate so they decided to siphon off the money by jacking up Royalty. Shareholders strated dumping the marti stock after being cheated off.
But another fallout is that with the wafer thing margins Maruti can not upgrade the assembly lines or do local R&D. Maruti being captive subsidery can not get engines and drive train from third party like TML or M&M.

So the whole company policy started getting geared towards keeping wages low by means of employing contract workers to level of 50%.

Loosing touch with local culture and sensibilities does not help either.

Last edited by amitk26 : 10th September 2012 at 15:55.
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Old 10th September 2012, 15:55   #110
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

The read the article and I feel sad for the way the workers are treated.

I see similarities in the management policies of Maruti and a major IT company in terms of lunch being not part of working hours. Managers questioning you regarding the pervious days performance is done in all sales organizations, the frequency may differ but the practice is the same. Reaching half hour early to work, punching in and fixed time for lunch can be seen in BPO’s and Call centers too. While the intent of these policies are to ensure that the employee doesn’t slack off, the process in which you go about doing it makes a lot of difference. I am saying so because I have worked in all three industries.

We may feel that these workers are just cribbing and these policies (individually) are no big deal as they exist in other industries too. But put them all together, hard physical labour, low pay, authoritative management and above all no representation (voice), No wonder people revolted. I am having a hard time to figure out which other industry follows all of these practices + hard physical labour and I am unable to think of any other! The closest I can think of are telecallers having to face similar kind of management policies but they get paid handsomely for every sale and have an attractive incentive package, as per my knowledge on the industry. In these kind of industries the opportunities are many and people do often switch jobs, these high turnover from each company evens out the demand – supply balance. But since the auto industry doesn’t have such luxuries, we cannot expect people to just leave the jobs if its hard and find something else. These workers then, truly are at the mercy of the management.

The Japanese are known to be hard workers. I do not have a clue about the Japanese work culture but knowing that they have a word for Death from Overwork - Karōshi gives me a fair idea on their approach to work. It is unfair to expect that one race should follow the others ideologies in their own country! Its another thing that the Saudi’s want every women covered up in their country irrespective of their citizenship but it would be incorrect if a Saudi company expects the same from its employees in other countries too. The Japs expecting these workers to match their Japanese standards does sound unfair to me. They need to localize few policies and standards keeping in mind the Indian culture too a la McSpicy Burger, Indianized to suit our requirement.

The real culpurit here is the toothless law in India. The door one would knock on to get justice in any society is the Law, clearly these workers have tried this route and failed. I felt sad for the state of affairs in our country when I read that Tata-Corus were fined 500,000 pounds for death of a worker that had happened during the previous ownership of Corus! It would be hard to imagine such a judgment from a court in India. I find this statement very true – Indians value everything expect another man’s life. If only our laws had more tooth, a life wouldnt be lost today.

Life isn't fair. I say this statement not to ridicule the workers problems or support the management policies. In todays world where money is everything, it’s hard for people at the bottom of the pyramid to survive. The pursuit of a “good life” is never ending, having sad that one can’t blame the other for wanting more for himself.

Last edited by mac187 : 10th September 2012 at 16:01.
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Old 10th September 2012, 16:37   #111
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

When I started my career in sales, I was forced to make 200 cold calls every day. it did take about 8 hrs non stop and was as monotonous as fixing nuts and bolts. And I was doing night shifts and use to call until 5 in the morning and then do the day's reports and emails for the next 2 or 3 hours. Now, i guess I need to find my manager and beat him up.

The blogger himself is saying that he has heard about how tiring it could get inside the assembly line even before he joined. Why did he have to sign up for the job in the first place? And 15000 Rs for a ITI guy is an absolutely good pay.

The workers demanded for 1 lac bucks a month, which he says was not actually their intention but they started with a very high amount for the sake of negotiation. Now what if maruti agreed for that payscale? A unskilled semi-literate worker making 1 lac rupees in a month? I guess I will want to apply for that job myself.

They had a reason to commit these crimes, like all murderers and criminals do.
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Old 10th September 2012, 16:55   #112
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
It was an ugly incident at Manesar, probably both sides were to be blamed...
It wasn't an ugly incident, it was a well-planned attack, a pre-meditated murder.

If you are not aware of the "Japanese" principles, I am talking about, please read the books "The Maruti Story", "The Toyota Way", "Made In Japan" and many others written on the way the Japanese companies work.


The question is not whether lunch is on the employees' time or on the employer's time. If the employees were unhappy with the way they were being treated at Maruti, they must surely have had several other options at their disposal, the last being to quit the company and join a competitor. I am sure Mahindras and Fords and Hyundais are not exactly pampering their employees so much that life at Maruti sucks so much. With so many options at hand, the union / some rogue employees / elements decided to take law in their own hands without any regard to the consequences of their actions.

I wouldn't blame Maruti if they moved out of Manesar/Gurgaon and shifted to Gujrat, but I think it's a gallant gesture they have declared they won't be moving out of Manesar. I doubt how many companies would stick to their principles in such a case. To take a rough analogy, the Tatas moved out of Singur in the face of the growing unrest (I am not blaming Tatas, but just want to underline the conviction of the Maruti Suzuki management).

Personally I believe it's not just the unions but also political elements, but whatever they are I have no sympathy for them. They took a life, cost many others their jobs and have created a bigger problems for the general workforce who wants to continue earning their wages in peace.
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:06   #113
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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I do not know about other parts of the country but I have seen the unions in factories of NCR and they are worse than mafias. The Union leaders are backed up by political parties and they have interests in everything else except work.

The scenario has changed . Political parties are not bothered about people or ideologies . They are more bothered about elections and how to stay in power . Politicians are more bothered about making money .

It is not about the foreign management treating workers. Maruti (and many other companies) is working like this since the time when the majority of the shares were with Indian government. Its the young generation who want to get even more while doing less.

OK . If the younger generation wants to be innovative , break the monotony is it wrong ? Our forefathers never used footwear , should we be doing the same ? Just because the older generation was mislead or fooled .. does not mean that the same should be put up with

And I do not get the relationship between the removing of clause and Maruti's intention of mistreating the workers. I believe that the clause wuold have been removed to reduce the chances of having a 100% hooligans being hired as workers.

It simply shows the attitude of the company and the management .
Till date i have not seen a proper response from the govt or a proper investigation done and finally , could the management folks have not killed the manager and put the blame on the workers ? listening to the management and drawing conclusions is wrong .
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:11   #114
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Originally Posted by veyron_head View Post
When I started my career in sales, I was forced to make 200 cold calls every day. it did take about 8 hrs non stop and was as monotonous as fixing nuts and bolts. And I was doing night shifts and use to call until 5 in the morning and then do the day's reports and emails for the next 2 or 3 hours. Now, i guess I need to find my manager and beat him up.

The blogger himself is saying that he has heard about how tiring it could get inside the assembly line even before he joined. Why did he have to sign up for the job in the first place? And 15000 Rs for a ITI guy is an absolutely good pay.

The workers demanded for 1 lac bucks a month, which he says was not actually their intention but they started with a very high amount for the sake of negotiation. Now what if maruti agreed for that payscale? A unskilled semi-literate worker making 1 lac rupees in a month? I guess I will want to apply for that job myself.

They had a reason to commit these crimes, like all murderers and criminals do.
The worker might not have had the luxury of multiple job offers where he could choose any job . Regarding the pay part lets not argue . A street prostitute may get paid Rs.100 and another might get paid Rs.10,000 even though both of them may offer the same services ...
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:15   #115
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Originally Posted by mac187 View Post
The read the article and I feel sad for the way the workers are treated.

I see similarities in the management policies of Maruti and a major IT company in terms of lunch being not part of working hours. Managers questioning you regarding the pervious days performance is done in all sales organizations, the frequency may differ but the practice is the same. Reaching half hour early to work, punching in and fixed time for lunch can be seen in BPO’s and Call centers too. While the intent of these policies are to ensure that the employee doesn’t slack off, the process in which you go about doing it makes a lot of difference. I am saying so because I have worked in all three industries.

We may feel that these workers are just cribbing and these policies (individually) are no big deal as they exist in other industries too. But put them all together, hard physical labour, low pay, authoritative management and above all no representation (voice), No wonder people revolted. I am having a hard time to figure out which other industry follows all of these practices + hard physical labour and I am unable to think of any other! The closest I can think of are telecallers having to face similar kind of management policies but they get paid handsomely for every sale and have an attractive incentive package, as per my knowledge on the industry. In these kind of industries the opportunities are many and people do often switch jobs, these high turnover from each company evens out the demand – supply balance. But since the auto industry doesn’t have such luxuries, we cannot expect people to just leave the jobs if its hard and find something else. These workers then, truly are at the mercy of the management.

The Japanese are known to be hard workers. I do not have a clue about the Japanese work culture but knowing that they have a word for Death from Overwork - Karōshi gives me a fair idea on their approach to work. It is unfair to expect that one race should follow the others ideologies in their own country! Its another thing that the Saudi’s want every women covered up in their country irrespective of their citizenship but it would be incorrect if a Saudi company expects the same from its employees in other countries too. The Japs expecting these workers to match their Japanese standards does sound unfair to me. They need to localize few policies and standards keeping in mind the Indian culture too a la McSpicy Burger, Indianized to suit our requirement.

The real culpurit here is the toothless law in India. The door one would knock on to get justice in any society is the Law, clearly these workers have tried this route and failed. I felt sad for the state of affairs in our country when I read that Tata-Corus were fined 500,000 pounds for death of a worker that had happened during the previous ownership of Corus! It would be hard to imagine such a judgment from a court in India. I find this statement very true – Indians value everything expect another man’s life. If only our laws had more tooth, a life wouldnt be lost today.

Life isn't fair. I say this statement not to ridicule the workers problems or support the management policies. In todays world where money is everything, it’s hard for people at the bottom of the pyramid to survive. The pursuit of a “good life” is never ending, having sad that one can’t blame the other for wanting more for himself.
So true .. but everyone here talks about japanese work culture but do the indian workers get paid atleast half of what a japanese worker gets paid ?
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:15   #116
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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
If you are not aware of the "Japanese" principles, I am talking about, please read the books "The Maruti Story", "The Toyota Way", "Made In Japan" and many others written on the way the Japanese companies work.
So called " Japanese principals " were long thrown out of window. They were thrown out of window during 90 's when capitalistic economies begin their downhill journey .

IMO Japanese culture is deeply Autocratic in nature. i have worked closely for some 3 - 4 months in tokyo and i was told to Include "san" when ever i am addressing some body . no problem with that But that shows how much receptive they are to Other;s culture. I respected their culture and hence included the word when ever i address them but never listen to that word included in my name. wan ;t i suppose to get same respect from them as well .

if they want indian;s to work Japanese way in india, i am sorry it does n ;t work like that. they must respect local cultural sentiments and plan their strategy accordingly.

Quote:
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With so many options at hand, the union / some rogue employees / elements decided to take law in their own hands without any regard to the consequences of their actions.
Do you think the "law" exists in India. Has the law been working this situation would,t have arrived in first place.

Our Dear GOI changed the rule via way of SEZ act and all to suit companies But they never bothered to Amend the labor laws . clearly there was a hidden agenda of law makers to favor companies with scan respect for labor laws .

As for changing Job goes , it;s a option available with the workers, But it will not stop the cycle . Is the any guarantee that the other person coming in your place will not face the same situation . Changing Job;s is a quick fix . need of the hour is to have a permanent fix.

In the end somebody has to resort to protests to make his voice heard in the hall.

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 10th September 2012 at 17:21.
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:30   #117
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Till date i have not seen a proper response from the govt or a proper investigation done and finally , could the management folks have not killed the manager and put the blame on the workers ? listening to the management and drawing conclusions is wrong .
In how many cases have we seen any response or proper investigation? Bhopal Gas tragedy is still in que.

But yes, knowing the kind of youth employed in these factories, it is highly possible that the mob led by union leaders killed the manager.
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:42   #118
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The worker might not have had the luxury of multiple job offers where he could choose any job . Regarding the pay part lets not argue . A street prostitute may get paid Rs.100 and another might get paid Rs.10,000 even though both of them may offer the same services ...
In fact that is a luxury that only they(unskilled labour) have, other than a very very competent highly experienced professional.
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Old 10th September 2012, 17:46   #119
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In fact that is a luxury that only they(unskilled labour) have, other than a very very competent highly experienced professional.

ITI holders are unskilled ?
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Old 10th September 2012, 18:04   #120
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

A skilled worker in UP on an average is paid approx. Rs. 6500/- per month - http://www.paycheck.in/main/salary/m.../uttar-pradesh . Majority of workers in India are being paid half to a third of what Maruti workers are getting. The working conditions on an assembly line are quite similar in many other industries like bottle packing, pharmaceuticals etc. and overall facilities cannot match those at Maruti. The Maruti worker is still cribbing and resorting to violence and lawlessness is an undeniable truth and cannot be forgiven so easily.
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