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Old 30th July 2008, 12:16   #46
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one thing I'd like to add is non levels roads. while petrols have fun running about flat and level roads , most of them wheeze up inclines. Even worse when they have to start/stop and do the half clutch routine. Its simply much easier on a diesel, both going uphill, as well as starting from an incline ( one of the big reasons I bought a diesel- my house is on the side of a steep slope).

I think its hillier down south, and hence the higher demand.

To quote a certain petrol advocate who is posting here
Quote:
I WONT BURN MY CLUTCH!!!!
...and seconds later..
Quote:
OH SH!!!!!!!!!!!!T

Last edited by greenhorn : 30th July 2008 at 12:20.
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Old 30th July 2008, 12:38   #47
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I am Petrol to diesel convert. Just a couple of years ago, I was a staunch fan of 'Gasoline Only' philosophy, blame it on living for sometime in a close-minded country like the US. While I was test driving various Indicas and Indigos when I bought my current car, I was very impressed by the different types of diesels that Tata had provided for my test drive. I decided to take a chance with a basic diesel with the original idea of 'being-able-to-resell-it-if-it-does-not-suit-me' kind of attitude. But let me tell you I am terribly impressed with diesel technologies and the progress made by European companies like Bosch, Fiat, Mercedes, VW,Volvo etc. Please note that almost every diesel that you drive in India has some input from one of these companies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
For me revving the engine is a part of the driving pleasure, not to mention the roar produced by the engine. Even the "roar" produced by my WagonR above 4K rpm sounds good to me. Yeah.. one cant feel those things in city but once on highway that is what I want from my car.

I doubt any of the diesels can provide me that. So as of today if I want to save on petrol bills, I will get a CNG kit installed.

PS: Not to mention petrol is a lot less polluting in terms of suspended particles & lack of sulphur.
Contrary to what you mentioned, diesel is an absolute pleasure to drive on highway. It definitely 'roars' better if you like that. There are several contrary opinions on pollution issue. A diesel does not produce CO which is highly poisonous. A diesel is more ecofriendly in terms of the complete burn nature of the fuel and is less carcinogenic overall. I agree with you on suspended particles issue. Moreover simple NA diesel engines can be made to run easily on Bio diesel alternatives without much modification.

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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
From what I've gathered most modern diesels have that initial surge which makes them a pain to drive in city traffic since you've constantly press the clutch to control it. In bumper to bumper traffic, you still can't potter around like you can in a petrol without having to constantly use the clutch.
I was just thinking excactly like above until I started driving a diesel myself. In bumper to bumper traffic, a Naturally Aspirated Indica rolls on 1st and 2nd gears without even touching the clutch and accelerator irrespective of whether the AC is on or not. I handle that kind of driving only with the brakes. Anyone please try this for yourself. Indica rolls off if you dont brake at approx 850 rpm without AC and 1000 rpm with AC. And those are its RPM at idle numbers.

Ofcourse CRDE engines are even better and low end torque is fun to have.

Last edited by sridhga : 30th July 2008 at 12:56.
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Old 30th July 2008, 12:44   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhga View Post
In cities a Naturally Aspirated Indica rolls on 1st and 2nd gears without even touching the clutch and accelerator irrespective of whether the AC is on or not. I handle that kind of driving only with the brakes. Anyone please try this for yourself. Indica rolls off if you dont break at approx 850 rpm without AC and 1000 rpm with AC.
Any Diesel indica can do that( including the turbo/dicors) . the only issue is when you want to move in a hurry to stop that autorikshaw guy from getting into the gap in front and cutting you off. Still, for relaxed driving - even in heavy traffic, a diesel is better
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Old 30th July 2008, 13:00   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I think its hillier down south, and hence the higher demand.

To quote a certain petrol advocate who is posting here

...and seconds later..

If you have any clue about the terrain we were in with no road, you won't post crap like that . This was no slope... it was proper off the road on grass and muck and the problem wasn't torque... it was lack of traction causing wheelspin.

What one needed was a 4WD there and those things where said at different times :P. Even an MM340 with 4WD and low range had real trouble getting through those bits.

Your diesel indica would have been stuck long back. Half information is bad.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 30th July 2008 at 13:05.
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Old 30th July 2008, 13:13   #50
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Aha, great topic DCEite! The jury is still out on whether high-revving petrols are more fun to drive, or the ever-getting-faster-and-faster modern diesels. Hell, I can’t decide which I enjoy more…..driving my Vtec @ 7,100 rpms or unleashing the 340NM of torque in my Benz. In terms of practicality, of course diesel engines rule the roost. They offer far superior drivability, fuel efficiency and a level of robustness. But then, this topic has “driving pleasure” in its title.

To me, the choice between a petrol and diesel is definitely model or category specific. For instance, I’d choose an S Class petrol over the diesel anyday, simply because an S Class is meant to be supremely refined, silent and devoid of vibrations (even minor ones). However, in the C & E Class categories, I’d pick the diesels. Sports cars just have to be petrol, but I’d prefer my offroaders to be powered by an oil burner.

Swift = Both (petrol & diesel) have their pro’s and con’s. Comes down to your monthly running.

Fiat Palio : 1.6 petrol is the enthusiast’s choice. The MJD is bogged down moving that mass.

Fiesta : 1.6S for the enthusiast. The diesel offers only *adequate* power and is bought for its fuel efficiency.

Verna : Diesel. The petrol is too lacklustre.

Skoda Octavia : 1.8 Turbo with my eyes shut. It’s far more satisfying for an enthusiast. The 1.9TDi is competent, but the turbo-petrol is in a different league.

Tata’s & Mahindras : Only Diesel. Because that’s where their expertise is.

So on and so forth for the other brands.

That said, diesels have improved at a greater pace in the last decade, compared to petrol engines which have more or less been using the same technology. Atleast for mass production cars. At the end of the day, each person has their own drug. Only you can decide whether you enjoy driving a petrol more or a diesel.
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Old 30th July 2008, 14:03   #51
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post

The basic problem with most FWD diesels is that the base car is built as a petrol and putting in a heavier diesel block messes up the weight distribution completely. The front of the car becomes heavy and doesn't change direction as rapidly as one would want and the front heavy nature means the back of the car loses traction sooner than later. Seen this in every Indian diesel I've driven... be it the Magnum or Verna or Fiesta or Octy or Passat.
The weight doesnt increase much. Compare the petrol & Diesel Dzires weight of the diesel is only 70Kg's more cheers:
I think its roughly same across all cars. 70-100Kg's more for the diesel variant


@greenhorn & sridhga
any petrol car can easily do that. Depends on the driver and how the car is tuned.
Yea the indica can move but it takes ages to reach 60km
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Old 30th July 2008, 14:19   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
Yea the indica can move but it takes ages to reach 60km
It is a pain to reach 20kmph. After that its a breeze until 80kmph. I have this funny experience with petrol cars ahead of me. They drive at 50 and maybe they are in their highest gear. My car is still in the fourth gear and is roaring. Indica meets its RPM sweet spot roughly at 2500 rpm in 5th gear. I generally get that at 80kmph. So I am forced to overtake those petrol heads. I am not telling that petrol cars are slower. What I mean to say is that the bandwidth that petrol cars offer for every gear is so high that you can drive very relaxed at slower speeds in higher gears.
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Old 30th July 2008, 14:34   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
The weight doesnt increase much. Compare the petrol & Diesel Dzires weight of the diesel is only 70Kg's more cheers:
I think its roughly same across all cars. 70-100Kg's more for the diesel variant
Swift is pretty okay even in the diesel variant as the MJD doesn't weigh significantly more. However there are others like the optra magnum which weigh 100-150kg more than the petrol variant. Even the verna is over a hundred kilos more than the petrol. Try driving the same car first in petrol and then in diesel and see if you find a difference in handling.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 30th July 2008 at 14:36.
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Old 30th July 2008, 14:52   #54
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Have been a petrols are cool, diesels are for trucks kinda guy all my life, i am a complete convert since settling down in the EU.
The European diesels just add the 'F' in Fun. I am not talking about the expensive cars, just the regular ones like the Citroen's, Peugeots, the Fiats and even the Americans in the form of Ford, all of them have superb small and medium sized fun to drive turboed diesel burners, with great FE. The Mondeo and MJD were available in India and am hopeful, that some more of these can make the cut ..

No 2 ways about it diesels rock
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Old 30th July 2008, 14:55   #55
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To me, there are only a few major points of difference which affect me practically while driving. However, this is across all types of CRDI / TC engines and not comparative to any specific cars / engines

In city driving

1. If you want to cover the gap between you and the guy in front of you in stop-and-go traffic before the biker moves in, then its petrol for you.

2. If you want to be first out of the lights within the first 10 metres, its petrol for you. If you want to be first within the first 40 metres, a modern diesel will take you there.

3. Clutch Usage: Heavier clutch that has to be pressed fully.

4. Can roll in 1st / 2nd gear without really pressing the accelarator at all. Just step off the clutch gently.

In Highway driving

1. Almost equally good, or even better cruising ability. Only problem is slowing down to 20 / 30 kph and starting all the way from 2nd gear again where a petrol would manage from 3rd gear.
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Old 30th July 2008, 16:02   #56
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Interesting thread:

I had been a petrol head all my life. To an extent I still am . But ever since I started driving the Scorpio, my perspective has changed. With the peted elantra, it has completely changed. To me it offers the most amount of practical fun, without burning a huge hole in my pocket.

The newer diesels have hydraulic clutches hence no issues with hard clutch anymore

The handling edge of the mildly lighter front end is hardly visible in our driving condition s, easily overshadowed by the fun that the kickass torque offers.

Vijay

I guess i get all my high rpm nirvana on my bike on sunday mornings , that I dont need that in a car rest of the week at all

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Old 30th July 2008, 16:47   #57
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In Highway driving

1. Almost equally good, or even better cruising ability. Only problem is slowing down to 20 / 30 kph and starting all the way from 2nd gear again where a petrol would manage from 3rd gear.[/quote]


Beg to differ on that. A good deisel engine can easily take off from 20/30 kmph in 3rd gear. As there is greater torque available than in a petrol. But yes my Lancer can easily pick up from 30 kmph in 3rd, the only difference would be the feel of the take off (accelaration)



Cheers
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Old 30th July 2008, 17:03   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post

In Highway driving

1. Almost equally good, or even better cruising ability. Only problem is slowing down to 20 / 30 kph and starting all the way from 2nd gear again where a petrol would manage from 3rd gear.
IMO, for highway driving when it comes to some consistent high speed cruising, the modern diesels are better. They have higher gearing so are more relaxed curisers. More over because of high torque, one can accelerate from relative ( comparing with petrols ) low speeds in relatively high gear.
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Old 30th July 2008, 17:03   #59
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Apart from slightly higher noise from engine and less RPMs for meter to dance with, i will put my money down on Diesel version of my car (Swift), doubled the stake since i love the stiffer suspension upfront
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Old 30th July 2008, 17:14   #60
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OK here is a question. This is going to be happen someday very soon. Forget price diffrential.

You have a choice.

Jetta 2.0 CRdi diesel with about 150bhp I believe. Torque of 2.0 TDi 140bhp unit is rated at 236lbs.ft@1750rpm. Combined UK mileage is 51.6mpg. Crdi should give slightly better overall figures for both engine and mileage.

Jetta 1.4 TSI Petrol with 170bhp@6000rpm. Torque is 177 lbs.ft@1500rpm! Combined UK mileage 38.7mpg.

Note: Above specs are for the Golf in UK. Jetta shouldn't have any major difference in mileage from the Golf.
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