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Old 29th November 2010, 14:04   #136
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Not every sedan is a highway performer. Sedans like Corolla Altis Diesel (85 BHP) will have a tough time catching up with Safari(140 BHP)/Scorpio(112 BHP). In fact I wonder if it can. Ok, let us not talk about Chevy Cruze here. This is one sedan which can leave every SUV up to 40 lakhs in dust.

Also regarding cornering abilities of SUVs, I have seen Safaris/Scorpios cornering at 110-120, albeit with a little body-roll, Scorpio rolling more than Safari, but they pull it off alright.
A valid point but the power-weight ratio will also be a major factor here. A Scorpio/Safari will have to pull almost 2 tons of its body weight which effectively will minimize the HP advantage it has over lets say the Altis Diesel.

Cornering at 110/120 in a SUV is suicidal unless you have Traction Control. If you do manage to pull it off, it will go down as spectacular. However, if you can't, things could be quite nasty. I remember one particular bend on the Mum-Pune exp-way in the ghats section where I would be worried to do anything more than 70 kph in my sedan. I only wonder what a SUV would manage in the same situation.
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Old 29th November 2010, 14:11   #137
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For city, i always prefer SUV, especially Scorpio. You can zip through with hatchbacks in traffic but scorpio gives peace of mind in traffic. I feel i dont get tired in scorp comparing to hatcbacks/sedans.

For highways, for sedate driving in 100-110 then SUVs are fine. anything more than that makes you concentrate more and that would tire you soon. Curves are BIG NO.

Once when we were coming back from salem, I was able to keep up with octavia all through till krishnagiri. It was night with some traffic so even if he pulled away from me, i was able to catch him every now and then and i was doing 140 constantly but once we turned right, i said to myself that im done here. 'cos krishnagiri to vellore has many curves and i dont want to take any chances. Even Yesterday, i was having trouble catching up a santro in krishnagiri-vellore stretch.

About bad roads, i had different experience. In NH48, after tumkur, a punto was racing away effortlessly on a bad road whereas i was struggling with scorpio which was swinging left and right like a drunken elephant.
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Old 29th November 2010, 18:28   #138
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A recent trip to Virajpet convinced me and my fellow passengers what an SUV is 'also' capable of. An average speed of around 50 kmph was easily maintained on completely crater ridden roads. Hunsur to Virajpet road would have been a nightmare for any sedan (in fact we hardly saw any sedans/hatches on this road).

From Elivala to Hunsur (great road), sedans/hatches were just flying by at 120-130 kmph. A little after Hunsur, the roads got progressively worse, but we were able to do a steady 90 kmph- all the way to Virajpet. None of the sedans/hatches could catch up. We saw a few of them much later when we had stopped for a snack at a restaurant just before Virajpet.

In reality, this is where SUVs triumph, not in cornering or high speed runs (read 140+ kmph) even on smooth highways. Smooth highways are a rare sighting and on any long drive in India, one can maintain a steady 80-90 kmph irrespective of the road conditions, and you reach with no fatigue and arrive at your destination fresh.

I love this part of an SUV ownership.

Last edited by Kairalee : 29th November 2010 at 18:31.
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Old 30th November 2010, 10:34   #139
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@ civic-sense: quite a few times for some - e.g. I often drive on roads where I would shudder to take a low GC sedan.

@ ajay0612: get a used SX4 - 190 mm GC.
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Old 30th November 2010, 12:48   #140
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Nice topic and a tough choice there.

1.
Road Conditions

On well paved roads Sedan certainly gives more driving pleasure due to its high-speed cornering ability, faster pick-up.

On rough roads and no roads SUVs are a boon. While going out of town one can explore places a lot better with an SUVs than a sedan.

2.

Features and Safety

Sedans give you more goodies and premium features. Sedans are technologically advanced and provide better active safety features.

Moden SUVs are not far behind in features, goodies and active safety features. SUVs provide better passive safety a big plus.

3.

Looks and Image

Sedans are certainly more premium and stylish to look at. Helps one carry a professional image. Perfectly suited for daily office commutes.

SUVs (like Scorpio) have a muscular/macho looks and its touch to choose which one looks better. Helps one carry a macho and a more relaxed image. Perfectly suited for out of town visits with family/friends/relatives.

4.

Cost of Running

Sedans are much lower on Fuel Costs thanks to the fuel efficiency.

SUVs are costlier to run.

5.

Cost of Maintenance

Most of Sedans we are talking about have many imported components which are expensive. I think Sedan is expensive to maintain compared to an SUVs in 10Lakh segement.

Most SUVs in 10L range we are talking about are made by Indian Manufatures having majority of locally made spares making them relatively cheaper to maintain.

6.

Resale

Sedans are at a huge disadvantage in this department. Majority of the sedans (barring ANHC) in this segment depreciate about 50% or more in first 2-3 years.

SUVs (especially Scorpio) on the other hand depreciate slowlly and offer quite good resale value even after 5-6 years or more.

SUV seems to be more practical for our conditions. All this coming from Head. But, how can one ignore the desire/crave for beauty coming
from heart?

Verdict:-
Yeh Dil Mange More. One needs SUV and Sedan for different needs/purposes. Linea is more than fulfiling the needs/purposes of a Sedan. For the rest, I need a scorpio. Added in my wishlist for a 2nd vehicle.
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Old 30th November 2010, 13:33   #141
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SUV's are not always costlier to run. Especially the 10 lac range of INdian SUV's. This is because most of them are powered by Diesel. The newer ones (eg the 2.2 Mhawk Scorpio, 2.2 Dicor Safari - return pretty good Fuel efficiency both in city and on highways given their size and weight and bulk.)
The 10 lac range of SUV's are as you said made by Indian Manufacturers and their spares are also very reasonably priced as are the typical costs of service which makes them overall quite reasonable in terms of maintenance costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocop View Post
Nice topic and a tough choice there.

Cost of Running

SUVs are costlier to run.

Cost of Maintenance

Most SUVs in 10L range we are talking about are made by Indian Manufatures having majority of locally made spares making them relatively cheaper to maintain.
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Old 30th November 2010, 14:23   #142
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After all this discussion it looks like every family(small/big does not matter) needs to have 2 car.
1. Seden :- With all possible advantage of driving in City and Good road. More or less daily use.
2. SUV :- To handle pathetic Indian Road and high way
Can we effort to do this ?

Running a SUV for daily usage is waste more petrol than a Seden. Most of the time we does not even occupy the Second row seat. So waste of space utilization. Even If you really travel with full family (7-8) member for trip then you can also can opt for a rental car. This may occur in Once in 2/3 months.

My prefer will be some kind of India Specific Car, looking into various factor in India.
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Old 30th November 2010, 16:03   #143
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Default SUV owners should pay full market price of diesel

Full Article :

SUV owners should pay full market price of diesel: Jairam Ramesh - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: Continuing with his attack on diesel-guzzling cars like sports utility vehicles (SUVs), Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh today asked the users of such cars to pay full market price for the fossil fuel which is being sold at subsidised rates for farmers.

"Why should they get subsidised fuel meant for farmers," Ramesh asked while speaking at a conference on 5th Sustainability Summit organised by CII
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Old 30th November 2010, 16:18   #144
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Better to clock a lot of additional mileage before it becomes too expensive to afford Planning a weekend trip to Bhandardara right away!

Gonna convert my SUV into an apartment and live in it when it gets too expensive to run - what are sedan owners gonna do?
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Old 30th November 2010, 16:20   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arin_12 View Post
After all this discussion it looks like every family(small/big does not matter) needs to have 2 car.
1. Seden :- With all possible advantage of driving in City and Good road. More or less daily use.
2. SUV :- To handle pathetic Indian Road and high way
Can we effort to do this ?
Friend of mine in the US packs a couple of bikes in the back of his SUV, travels around highways in the SUV, then parks in the town and rides around on his bike. Not a bad option, really!
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Old 30th November 2010, 17:53   #146
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Sedans just have that up-market/premium feel to them in India. Otherwise see the case of Innova & Corolla, Corolla would certainly be cheaper to produce, has less body weight, less space, gas-guzzler petrol motor just has some more features but is priced much higher than Innova. Why? Because people are ready to pay more for a "Sedan", common Indian mentality.
For those who say sedans have better highway comfort, drive a Corolla & then Innova back to back, there isn't much difference. Only that Corolla is faster but would consume more petrol.
For less money you essentially get a more spacious vehicle which is lighter on the pocket too when you drive.
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Old 30th November 2010, 18:03   #147
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Apologies! Clearly OT -
The proposal will have to first pass muster with finance and petroleum ministries. Like one commenter (Sid) on this page posted, the savings and benefits to subsidy expense or the carbon savings is hardly worth implementing dual pricing. Imagine lakhs of petrol bunks revising their accounting and audit practices alone for the sake of a handful of SUVs (compared to all the thousands of other vehicles). Another argument against it - if diesel subsidy is only for farmers and farming, even if we include tractors in this list, what happens to the thousands of trucks and diesel trains etc. that literally run our economy. Should they also be clubbed with SUVs? Such thinking should be thought through far better than the sound bites we read in this article!
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Old 30th November 2010, 20:04   #148
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Guys, a simple explanation from my side-

Just made a trip to Nashik (from mumbai) & back. Was in my scorpio mHawk. Now those of whom who travel on this road frequently will know that its a 4 lane highway with a proper divider but in certain stretches, construction is just going on & so only one lane is available.

The pros of driving an SUV -

1) The respect you get on road - With all modesty, as soon as you leave thane, traffic sense is just pathetic. bikers occupy the right lane at 40 kmph, cars/trucks/bikes come head on on the right lane, truckers drive as if they own the road. This is where a SUV's advantage comes into picture. We were travelling at a constant 110-120 kmph with all smaller vehicles giving way to us. On certain open stretches, even 130 kmph was possible & anything more than that was risky. even on the single lanes, no car, truck or bike ever came head on to the scorpio. I have travelled umpteen times in my innova & on many occasions, we were even pushed off the road.

2) Bad roads - Certain stretches were bad & while all the sedans were grinding to a halt, the scorpio was easily gliding through the rough patches.

3) Comfort & time - I have gone to nashik in my scorpio, innova & even a SX4. With all honesty, i was the most comfortable in the scorpio followed by the innova. even the journey time was reduced. We reached a good 25 mins before! We were easily overtaking many sedans who were sticking to the left lanes behind trucks whereas the scorpio was easily zipping in & out & overtaking them. No rash driving though, before anyone jumps on me!

4) High seating postion - It means you get a good view of the road ahead & the driver enjoys a commanding position. Truckers dont look down at you like ants & you dont feel intimidated!

Cons :

1) The ghats - As soon as we entered the ghats, the scorpio with its body roll had to be slowed down. It climbed the slopes easily but approach a corner & you are forced the brake or your rear passengers would give you a whack! I was just staring the way a figo was easily taking the corners!

But apart from this, nothing else makes me feel a sedan is better.

So, my overall opinion is that an SUV is definitely better than sedans as the scorpio is equally fun in the city as it is on the highways.

And yes, our next car will be a Fortuner! No Captiva or Yeti will get the respect the way a Fortuner does!
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Old 30th November 2010, 22:08   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
@ ajay0612: get a used SX4 - 190 mm GC.
Thanks. But SX4 has 170mm G.C except the highest ZXI version which owing to larger tires has 180mm G.C.
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Old 30th November 2010, 23:18   #150
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Personally this would be a lifestyle choice. The structural parts of a sedan are not built for certain kinds of load and applications. There is no way I can mount a box with 100+lbs of camping gear and also carry 3/4 bicycles on a rack with a sedan. (as below)


That said, on a ride from the airport a cabbie mounted 4 full size suitcases on his Indica cab, I could not help but wonder, what if I get crushed by my own suitcases? May be I should not have packed that heavy boot In any case, I do not think a sedan will perform well with such abuse.

For city commuting, does it really matter how high you sit, and how far you can see when you are stuck behind other traffic? Perhaps more frustration as a result of seeing the empty patch of road ahead. IMHO, mass fuel subsidies makes no economic sense. Perhaps the poor farmers killing themselves for hunger can be provided with fuel through the fair price/ration shops.
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