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Old 11th April 2017, 23:23   #1
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Default S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I was running with Tune O Tronics remap since last 6 months. I was happy with the performance. But, I had some issues with them. They were not able to provide good support as promised. Also, their attitude was really horrible and avoiding a customer who has remapped 3 cars from them was ridiculous.

TOT had failed to deliver a tweaked map as my per my requirements and also chose not to receive any calls from a paying customer for weeks. I was a big fan of them before and used to blindly believe the reviews on Team BHP ( Most of them turned out to be misguiding and have been deleted on the forum now).

After knowing the facts and lack of TOT support for my car, I decided to get a remap done as per my requirements from another tuner.

The Search Begins :

1. GT Tunerz ( Quantum Tuning UK) :

GT Tunerz were able to read my ECU properly and they did not have to force read the ECU like TOT. Akshay had EDC17 specific adapters and it worked perfectly. But, he couldn't remap my car as we did not have stock file. After few weeks, Akshay did a remap of my friends car and it tuned out to be very good. I had decided to get the remap when Akshay comes to Bangalore.

2. Code 6 tuning :

Most of them would be knowing that I had bad experience with Code 6 regarding my Grand I10 remap. But, they had good tune for S-Cross 1.6 and I checked with the owners directly and they gave positive feedback. I did contact Gino from Code 6 Kochi. Inspite of all the issues I had with Code 6 before, He was very helpful and answered all my queries. Also, Code 6 guys have started testing most of the cars on dyno and do tweaks if needed. They also do lot of road testing and Kpzen too confirmed the same(He has Code 6 tuned 1.6 S-Cross which was tested for more than 200 KM on highways). I was willing to iron out the differences with Code 6 and work on my S-Cross.

3. Wolf Moto :

Rajiv is a very honest tuner, I have ever met. He is one master brain, but lazy . I asked Rajiv about my car and he was very happy to help me out. He told me honestly that he has not done a perfect tune on S-Cross, but he had done some testing on S-Cross 1.6 which belongs to an editor of a performance magazine . I asked Rajiv if he could provide switchable maps and he said it could be tried, but no promises.


My friend, Warun had got Quantum UK tune from S-Cross and was very satisfied. I had decided to get the remap, when Akshay comes to Bangalore.

But....

I had to drive to Bangalore for some other work. I happened to know that Rajiv, Wolf moto is also in town and just 2 km away from my place. I don't know what happened to me, I wanted to try Wolf map all of a sudden.

Dialling Rajiv Wolf.....

Rajiv : Hello Naren, what's up?

Me : Heard that you are in Bangalore and very close to where I am staying. We need to catch up and I have S-Cross.

Rajiv : I am free tomorrow, Done!!

Wolf remap session begins...

Rajiv came to my apartment next day. The ECU was out and the surgery began. Rajiv had stock map of 1.6 S-Cross and had already made his tune. TOT had told me that my ECU has rolling immobiliser codes and can't flash any file directly ( I do not know how true it is, but did not want to risk). I told the same to Rajiv and he took a read of my present file to keep it as a backup.

Rajiv uses CMD tool for bench flash. It worked without any issues. Also, the reading of the ECU was much faster than K Tag tool (Alientech). We got a successful read in hardly 10 minutes. To rule out the risk of rolling codes problem, Rajiv converted the read file(TOT remap) from my ECU to his tuned file (Wolf remap). If the ECU has rolling codes, the car has to be started in the same map in which it has run before. As, I did not want to take any risk.. Rajiv took full care of it. After converting TOT file to Wolf file, Rajiv flashed it and it was done in 5 minutes.

I was thinking if my car would be faster / more powerful than TOT remap and asked Rajiv.. Do you think your map is more powerful?? Rajiv told me that he can say that only if he analyses TOT remap and compare it with his file. He had only opened TOT and Wolf tuned files together and Win Ols tuning software will show the changes. Rajiv had just corrected the changes and he had not analysed what power TOT map is doing. He was like.. You drive the car and let's see.. That would be less time consuming than him analysing TOT file to tell me the difference.

ECU was sealed and put back in car. I started the car and there were no error codes. We both hit the roads to test the car. I drove the car for around 50 KM under various conditions.

TOT vs Wolf remap :

1. Idling : No difference!!

2. 1000 to 2000 RPM : Very good difference. Low end has improved a lot and it was very easy to drive in Bangalore traffic..I can't ask for more.

3. 2000 to 4000 RPM : Again, the difference was noticeable. Mid range was mental and Rajiv had panic attacks every now and then. But I was super happy, haha

3. Above 4000 RPM : I did not find any significant difference. Rajiv told me that he can tweak the top end little more, but it's little risky as the EGT would shoot up very quickly under wide open throttle.

4. FE : As per MID, FE was slightly better in Bangalore traffic.

Overall, I was very happy and impressed with the Wolf tune. Rajiv delivered what a doctor asked for.

Few pics :

Bosch ECU : EDC17C49
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ECU opened :
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CMD Tool :
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CMD software interface : Ready to read my ECU :
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Rajiv putting back the ECU : Sorry for this pic, will click better photo next time :
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Numbers :

As per Rajiv, his map would be doing around 150 hp / 390 NM at crank. Even TOT had claimed similar figures, but the Wolf map is more faster for sure.

What's Next?

Rajiv will try his best to develop switchable maps for 1.6 S-Cross. If he does, it would be world first. It's not easy as EDC17 is very complex ECU. Rajiv would need my car for few days to test the switchable maps and integrate it properly. I wish him good luck, you can do this.. RAJIV!!!!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 11th April 2017 at 23:28.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:04   #2
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Default re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
3. Above 4000 RPM : I did not find any significant difference. Rajiv told me that he can tweak the top end little more, but it's little risky as the EGT would shoot up very quickly under wide open throttle.
Install an EGT gauge, they are not very expensive and with it Rajiv can decide on how much more to push at the top. Get a digital one not analog.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:11   #3
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Default re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Install an EGT gauge, they are not very expensive and with it Rajiv can decide on how much more to push at the top. Get a digital one not analog.
Yes, I was also thinking about the same. EGT gauge would be very good to tune the car "safely". What's the best location : Pre or post turbo?? My only concern is about leaks.

Last edited by GTO : 6th August 2017 at 18:08. Reason: typo
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:19   #4
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Default re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Yes, I was also thinking about the same. EGT gauge would be very good to tune the car "safely". What's the best location : Pre or post turbo?? My only concern is about leaks.
Pre-turbine is what you should do with sheathed probe. Post turbine is not useful unless the temperature drop has already been recorded for this engine without which its a guess work.

If there is enough meat in the cast iron manifold, for eg: a blanked out sensor location on some cars, it is possible to drill and tap for the egt bung and place it reliably. But if there is not then personally i wouldn't drill and tap into the relatively thin wall.

Last edited by GTO : 6th August 2017 at 18:08. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 12th April 2017, 12:46   #5
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
If there is enough meat in the cast iron manifold, for eg: a blanked out sensor location on some cars, it is possible to drill and tap for the egt bung and place it reliably. But if there is not then personally i wouldn't drill and tap into the relatively thin wall.
Thanks for the input. I will check with Venkat, Blackworks regarding it

Drove 150 KM : Bangalore to Mysore just now. I am very impressed with the performance and FE was icing on the cake. I maintained speeds below 80 kmph for 50 km and MID showed 27 KMPL and next 100 km was pedal to metal driving . The total average was 22 kmpl as per MID.
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Old 12th April 2017, 19:10   #6
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

TOT Remap :

0-100 : 9.05 sec

80-120 kmph

4 th gear : 5.8 sec
3 rd gear : 6.8 sec
5 th gear : 7.0 sec
6 th gear : 9.9 sec

Wolf Remap :

0-100 : 8.7

80-120 kmph

4 th gear : 5.3
3 rd gear : 6.2
5 th gear : 6.5
6 th gear : 9.1

Note :

1. GPS speed was used and logged using Torque Pro app.

2. Car had around 15 litres more fuel when the test was done on Wolf map.

3. Testing was done on same stretch of road in Mysore.
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Old 13th April 2017, 01:41   #7
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

Naren congrats on being first Indian who remapped his new 1.6 S-Cross twice and that too within a span of one year.

It is a surprise that your car performance has improved along with FE. What are the torque/BHP figures at the wheels and at crank now?

I am also looking forward to your planned comparison in first week of May among remapped 1.6s by three different tuners.
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Old 13th April 2017, 07:17   #8
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by Sip View Post
Naren congrats on being first Indian who remapped his new 1.6 S-Cross twice and that too within a span of one year.
Hahaha.. I wish that did not happen though. Most of the tuners act like they are doing a "favour" to the customer by remap and also charge hefty amount. I am not a kind of person to go beg the tuner.. I have paid them, it's their duty to deliver. Life time support / unlimited tweaks etc were all just marketing by the previous tuner and failed to meet the requirements of a "paying customer".

Quote:
It is a surprise that your car performance has improved along with FE.
There is good low end torque now and under normal driving, I have noticed good improvement. But if you do pedal to metal, FE decreases!!

Quote:
What are the torque/BHP figures at the wheels and at crank now?
Only a dyno run could give the real numbers. I hope it's at least 130 + WHP.

Quote:
I am also looking forward to your planned comparison in first week of May among remapped 1.6s by three different tuners.
Sure, will do if we get free time and catch up. Wolf vs Quantum UK vs Code 6 comparo for 1.6 S-Cross can be done. Member dextertuned has said on my other thread that he has a TOT remapped S-Cross 1.6 and still waiting for Alientech to release parameters on "monthly basis". It would be great if he could also join in
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Old 16th April 2017, 01:18   #9
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I have driven around 400 KM post Wolf remap in thick Bangalore traffic, empty highways, ghats etc.

Observations :

1. Low end : Very good improvement and better than my previous TOT map. Difference is HUGE, when compared to stock

2. Mid range : This is pure fun.. Point and shoot, Again a significant difference.

3. Top end ( above 4000 RPM) : After extensive testing and logging.. The Top end is same as my previous TOT map. There is no gain here. I told the same to Rajiv and it looks like he is not comfortable to increase it further. He says that we are already running high and anything more would be risky.

I am planning to do hardware mods next. 1.6 JTDM 2 engine is used in many Alfa and Fiat cars abroad. Guys in Europe have taken the car till 190-200 HP with a bigger turbo, 2.0 MJD intercooler, intake mod and stage 2 remap. I already have a decat downpipe and stage 1 Wolf remap. I am doing some research to check the bigger turbo compatibility. After checking the videos, timings of other remapped 1.6 S-Cross in India.. I am very happy to have the Fastest 1.6 S-Cross in the country . The mods never end and hoping to make it a proper stage 2.

0-100 : ~7 seconds on speedo

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 16th April 2017 at 01:28.
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Old 16th April 2017, 08:54   #10
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

All tuning outlets are mom and pop shops so it would be better not to expect manufacturer level service from them. Even with Wolf (as Rajiv is lazy in your assessment) expect service levels to come down and calls not to be responded beyond a point.

As this is your second experience with bad service from tuners despite all the praise you've heaped on TOT in the other thread, it would be better to be prepared for fall in service levels after some time even with Wolf so as not to be frustrated.

These mom and pop shops are just not programmed to institutionalise themselves!

Enjoy your drive !
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Old 16th April 2017, 10:09   #11
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
All tuning outlets are mom and pop shops so it would be better not to expect manufacturer level service from them.
Haha true that. I am not expecting Maruti Suzuki level of service anyways.

Quote:
Even with Wolf (as Rajiv is lazy in your assessment) expect service levels to come down and calls not to be responded beyond a point.
Sorry for not making it clear and you have also misunderstood. I just meant to say that brainy guys are little lazy . He is the only tuner in the world to offer "switchable maps" for Fiat and few Renault cars. I just meant he could have worked on other manufacturers too. I never meant he is lazy in customer support.

Quote:
As this is your second experience with bad service from tuners despite all the praise you've heaped on TOT in the other thread, it would be better to be prepared for fall in service levels after some time even with Wolf so as not to be frustrated.
I had tried my best to be patient and waited for more than 6 months. No Transparency and lack of commitment could not be tolerated anymore with Tune O Tronics. Anyways, Wolf has delivered the map as per my requirements (first attempt itself). I would be working again with Wolf only when I am ready to do hardware mods.

Cheers!!
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Old 16th April 2017, 22:15   #12
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Hahaha.. I wish that did not happen though. Most of the tuners act like they are doing a "favour" to the customer by remap and also charge hefty amount. I am not a kind of person to go beg the tuner.. I have paid them, it's their duty to deliver. Life time support / unlimited tweaks etc were all just marketing by the previous tuner and failed to meet the requirements of a "paying customer".
Hey folk sorry, I didn't want to rekindle those 'not so great' memories (as per your opinion), I was just emphasising enthusiasm part.

But your 0-100kmph figures are awesome performance! For a moment i was just scratching my head! A testimony that your present tuning is better.

Edit : Are you still continuing with air intake mod or resumed to stock settings?

Last edited by Sip : 16th April 2017 at 22:20. Reason: Additional point
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Old 16th April 2017, 22:29   #13
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

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Hey folk sorry, I didn't want to rekindle those 'not so great' memories (as per your opinion), I was just emphasising enthusiasm part.
Thanks buddy. I am happy that you have understood it well Lot of people do ask me - "Why I change tuners"? Answer is simple : If I am not satisfied or happy.. I move on and try to get the best available for my car . And yes, I have not taken or even asked the refund from any previous tuners.

Quote:
A testimony that your present tuning is better
No doubts regarding it!! I should have gone with Wolf itself as per my initial plan. But, Rajiv was out of country last year..

Quote:
Are you still continuing with air intake mod or resumed to stock settings?
Still continuing with it.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 16th April 2017 at 22:39.
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Old 17th April 2017, 12:24   #14
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

I had noticed that the car is little slow since yesterday night. I did 0-100 timing and got 9.5 seconds, around 0.8 seconds slower. I was slightly disappointed and breaking my head over it. Then I realised that I had topped up 500 Rs fuel at BP bunk. So, I drove around 80 KM today and emptied that fuel . In gear acceleration, 0-100 timing were slightly lesser. I filled 500 Rs diesel at Shell and after driving 2-3 KM, Butt dyno said the power is back. Finally relieved.. And yes, I did the timing again using GPS based 0-100.. It was 8.68 seconds
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Old 17th April 2017, 12:28   #15
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Default Re: S-Cross 1.6L : Wolf Moto Remap!

The timings which are being compared between Wolf and TOT - Was the downpipe on the car when you had taken the TOT timings? Also was it on Shell fuel?
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