Improving your car's brakes: Options and costs

ghpk · 24th October 2009, 00:46

Atlast after many attempts to avoid non-bosch brake pads

I've managed to purchase Bosch Brake pads for my Santro.
Got it at BOSCH distributor in my city.
they are yet to be installed and will get it done in a day or two.

Here are details for future searchers.

Company: Bosch
Cost : Rs.685/- for a set of 1 pack which is for front wheels.

Pics

Improving your car's brakes: Options and costs-bosch_brakepad1.jpg

Improving your car's brakes: Options and costs-bosch_brakepad2.jpg

Improving your car's brakes: Options and costs-bosch_brakepad3.jpg

gemballa · 25th October 2009, 20:47

theere are 2 options
1) get oem brakes and pads nothing works better than oem.. ebc etc are all ok but wont do you justice over oem.

2) the one and only sure way to do it is a big brake upgrade. calipers discs and pads with better brake lines. costly but the best overall performance and visual upgrade one can buy

avinaash.b · 25th October 2009, 21:34

As a pillar of this community I don't think you should be suggesting that drilling stock rotors is an option. The two most important areas of the car are the tires and the brakes. When you cross drill rotors you will be compromising the strength of the rotors. Take your "brake fade" and imagine the amount of fade you will have when one of them crack!

My suggestion would be to either drive slower or pay to play and upgrade the brakes the correct way.

birashis · 27th September 2010, 13:51

Anyone in this forum has tried to upgrade the brakes for Getz Crdi? Any help in this matter would be appreciated

monty9991 · 17th August 2011, 16:45

Can any one tell me the OE size of Rotors for ANHC?

Ricky_63 · 17th August 2011, 21:59

I plan to upgrade the brakes on my Turbo Swift. I have new OE brake pads & they work well for most situations. I have been recomended MINTEX pads, they are supposed to be a lot better than OE....anyone with informed views on this ?

Cheers

honeybee · 22nd November 2011, 16:35

I have read on TBHP about the poor braking ability of the Ikon, specially the earlier models. Since I bought my Ikon 1.6, I have experienced firsthand how the brakes feel. While the pedal was very heavy in the beginning, the feel has improved since the brake oil change. However there's still a lot to be desired.

On a slope with the engine switched off, the footbrakes are ineffective in stopping the car from rolling backwards, even if the slope is gentle. Does this indicate the pads and liners need replacement?

While on the move, the brakes are clearly inadequate for high speeds, and even when speeds are in 60s, I am not sure the brakes will stop the car in time to avoid a collision, and so I am nervous as well as cautious.

What is the root cause of the poor braking performance? Is it the pads/liners? Is it something else?

And what is the solution for it?

kaushik_s · 22nd November 2011, 16:49

With engine switched off it's always difficult to use brakes, as most of these brakes are powered by the engine itself(I think it's to create the vacuum needed for the power brakes).
Although Ikon's brake inadequacy is a common problem so it seems. I felt the same in my BIL's car too which is a Ford Ikon. It won't be a easy or cheap task to make them more efficient than what they are from factory.

ilangop · 22nd November 2011, 17:17

Honeybee,
I am not sure if there is another thread that discusses this topic. Yet I am posting my observation / experience on 2005 Flair 1.3.
A sudden braking with the clutch released, always locks the wheels. Beacuse of this I ran over 2 dogs straying in a dark region of a highway. I still regret for the same. In a second occassion, I would have almost hit a bullock cart. Braking with the engine coupled, gives a better braking and avoids wheel lock.
These brakes are vacuum assisted, hence never try braking with engine off. I think an ABS unit can help.
How much has your odo clocked? When was the brake system ovetrhauled recently? I think, the rear brake is self adjusting, need confirmation on this.

2500cc · 22nd November 2011, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilangop

Honeybee,
I am not sure if there is another thread that discusses this topic. Yet I am posting my observation / experience on 2005 Flair 1.3.
A sudden braking with the clutch released, always locks the wheels. Beacuse of this I ran over 2 dogs straying in a dark region of a highway. I still regret for the same. In a second occassion, I would have almost hit a bullock cart. Braking with the engine coupled, gives a better braking and avoids wheel lock.
These brakes are vacuum assisted, hence never try braking with engine off. I think an ABS unit can help.
How much has your odo clocked? When was the brake system ovetrhauled recently? I think, the rear brake is self adjusting, need confirmation on this.

Retro-fitting ABS is not recommended. Also, the ABS doesn't increase the braking efficiency, it just sees to that the wheels doesn't lock-up under hard braking, wet roads, loose gravel, etc.,

IMO, it is the effectiveness of the brake booster, that increases the braking efficiency

Astleviz · 22nd November 2011, 17:47

This has been discussed on several threads before so I'll just do a recap-

1. There are no hi-quality after market brake pads/ discs available for ikon, at least in India so no point going down that road.
2. You cannot fit an ABS on Ikon, unlike what ilagpop has suggested.
3. Get better shoes for your car. Michelins and Yokos are good options and they will help a bit in reducing the braking distance but don't expect a considerable difference.
4. Get used to engine braking. Over the years I have got used to this and don't feel as nervous about Ikon brakes as before.
5. Maintain reasonable distance between the your car and the vehicle in front. More distance that you would keep in any other car.
6. You can ask the mechanic to tweak the servo for more braking assistance but this will only help marginally.

Essentially there's not much you can do in terms of after market upgrades except modifying your driving style (which in my opinion helps more than any mod I can think of towards reducing the stopping distance.)

honeybee · 22nd November 2011, 18:04

Compared to my Santro the Ikon's brakes simply lack the bite. While driving defensively and anticipating events is fine, there are situations where you simply need to depress the brake pedal and expect the car to lose speed quickly.

The car has clocked around 37k, but it's ten years old. No idea when the pads/liners were last replaced, but my bet is they are still OE. Brake oil was changed to DoT 4 around a month or so back. And IMO most rear brakes which are drum type are self-adjusting.

So then is it possible to improve the braking system?

I have already got the brake oil replaced a month back, so that's been some help. Should I get new pads and liners? Should I go for different discs? Should I replace the brake booster?

mayankk · 22nd November 2011, 18:06

you could look up brake upgrades for the fiesta Mk5 on european online stores, cos as far as i know, they will fit.

zen91 · 22nd November 2011, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astleviz

This has been discussed on several threads before so I'll just do a recap-

1. There are no hi-quality after market brake pads/ discs available for ikon, at least in India so no point going down that road.
2. You cannot fit an ABS on Ikon, unlike what ilagpop has suggested.
3. Get better shoes for your car. Michelins and Yokos are good options and they will help a bit in reducing the braking distance but don't expect a considerable difference.
4. Get used to engine braking. Over the years I have got used to this and don't feel as nervous about Ikon brakes as before.
5. Maintain reasonable distance between the your car and the vehicle in front. More distance that you would keep in any other car.
6. You can ask the mechanic to tweak the servo for more braking assistance but this will only help marginally.

Essentially there's not much you can do in terms of after market upgrades except modifying your driving style (which in my opinion helps more than any mod I can think of towards reducing the stopping distance.)

100% agree with all that has been mentioned in this post. Not much can be done except changing to better rubber. I had changed to Michelin XM1+ for my 1.6 and saw some improvement in the braking.

Changed the front brake pads regularly but I guess the poblem always lied with the rear brakes of the Ikon. The brake drum was too puny to manage high speed braking and unfortunalely there is nothing much that we can do about it.

Engine braking and maintaining distance from the vehicle in the front is what one needs to practice regularly.

suhaas307 · 22nd November 2011, 18:52

Yes, the Ikon is known for it's poor brakes. And on the 1.6 (which happens to be a pretty fast car, even now) it's very scary! But there are ways with which you can improve the brakes on your Ikon.

- Get the entire brake-assembly thoroughly examined by a workshop personnel/service guy. Parts like brake-cables might require your attention. If the brake-pads need replacement (and in all probability, they do) get them changed. Either approach Ford in India, or look for brake-pads online. The Fiesta Mk IV and the Ikon are essentially, the same cars. The Fiesta is a hatch though.

- Get new tyres. People underestimate the importance of tyres and modify the engine for performance and the suspension for handling, but what they don't realize is that tyres are the only things that are in constant contact with the road. A good set of tyres will ensure that your car will brake well and handle well.

24th October 2009, 00:46	#76
ghpk BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ghaziabad Posts: 872 Thanked: 213 Times	Atlast after many attempts to avoid non-bosch brake pads I've managed to purchase Bosch Brake pads for my Santro. Got it at BOSCH distributor in my city. they are yet to be installed and will get it done in a day or two. Here are details for future searchers. Company: Bosch Cost : Rs.685/- for a set of 1 pack which is for front wheels. Pics
	() Thanks

25th October 2009, 20:47	#77
gemballa BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 368 Thanked: 319 Times	theere are 2 options 1) get oem brakes and pads nothing works better than oem.. ebc etc are all ok but wont do you justice over oem. 2) the one and only sure way to do it is a big brake upgrade. calipers discs and pads with better brake lines. costly but the best overall performance and visual upgrade one can buy
	() Thanks

25th October 2009, 21:34	#78
avinaash.b Newbie Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New York City / Bangalore Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	As a pillar of this community I don't think you should be suggesting that drilling stock rotors is an option. The two most important areas of the car are the tires and the brakes. When you cross drill rotors you will be compromising the strength of the rotors. Take your "brake fade" and imagine the amount of fade you will have when one of them crack! My suggestion would be to either drive slower or pay to play and upgrade the brakes the correct way.
	() Thanks

27th September 2010, 13:51	#79
birashis Newbie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 12 Thanked: 0 Times	Anyone in this forum has tried to upgrade the brakes for Getz Crdi? Any help in this matter would be appreciated
	() Thanks

17th August 2011, 16:45	#80
monty9991 BANNED Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ludhiana Posts: 706 Thanked: 42 Times View My Garage	Re: Improving your cars brakes: Options and costs Can any one tell me the OE size of Rotors for ANHC?
	() Thanks

17th August 2011, 21:59	#81
Ricky_63 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,880 Thanked: 520 Times View My Garage	Re: Improving your cars brakes: Options and costs I plan to upgrade the brakes on my Turbo Swift. I have new OE brake pads & they work well for most situations. I have been recomended MINTEX pads, they are supposed to be a lot better than OE....anyone with informed views on this ? Cheers
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 16:35	#82
honeybee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dombivli Posts: 3,055 Thanked: 2,144 Times View My Garage	How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? I have read on TBHP about the poor braking ability of the Ikon, specially the earlier models. Since I bought my Ikon 1.6, I have experienced firsthand how the brakes feel. While the pedal was very heavy in the beginning, the feel has improved since the brake oil change. However there's still a lot to be desired. On a slope with the engine switched off, the footbrakes are ineffective in stopping the car from rolling backwards, even if the slope is gentle. Does this indicate the pads and liners need replacement? While on the move, the brakes are clearly inadequate for high speeds, and even when speeds are in 60s, I am not sure the brakes will stop the car in time to avoid a collision, and so I am nervous as well as cautious. What is the root cause of the poor braking performance? Is it the pads/liners? Is it something else? And what is the solution for it?
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 16:49	#83
kaushik_s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,088 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? With engine switched off it's always difficult to use brakes, as most of these brakes are powered by the engine itself(I think it's to create the vacuum needed for the power brakes). Although Ikon's brake inadequacy is a common problem so it seems. I felt the same in my BIL's car too which is a Ford Ikon. It won't be a easy or cheap task to make them more efficient than what they are from factory.
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 17:17	#84
ilangop BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 993 Thanked: 928 Times View My Garage	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? Honeybee, I am not sure if there is another thread that discusses this topic. Yet I am posting my observation / experience on 2005 Flair 1.3. A sudden braking with the clutch released, always locks the wheels. Beacuse of this I ran over 2 dogs straying in a dark region of a highway. I still regret for the same. In a second occassion, I would have almost hit a bullock cart. Braking with the engine coupled, gives a better braking and avoids wheel lock. These brakes are vacuum assisted, hence never try braking with engine off. I think an ABS unit can help. How much has your odo clocked? When was the brake system ovetrhauled recently? I think, the rear brake is self adjusting, need confirmation on this.
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 17:47	#86
Astleviz BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panjim, Goa Posts: 370 Thanked: 175 Times	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? This has been discussed on several threads before so I'll just do a recap- 1. There are no hi-quality after market brake pads/ discs available for ikon, at least in India so no point going down that road. 2. You cannot fit an ABS on Ikon, unlike what ilagpop has suggested. 3. Get better shoes for your car. Michelins and Yokos are good options and they will help a bit in reducing the braking distance but don't expect a considerable difference. 4. Get used to engine braking. Over the years I have got used to this and don't feel as nervous about Ikon brakes as before. 5. Maintain reasonable distance between the your car and the vehicle in front. More distance that you would keep in any other car. 6. You can ask the mechanic to tweak the servo for more braking assistance but this will only help marginally. Essentially there's not much you can do in terms of after market upgrades except modifying your driving style (which in my opinion helps more than any mod I can think of towards reducing the stopping distance.)
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 18:04	#87
honeybee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dombivli Posts: 3,055 Thanked: 2,144 Times View My Garage	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? Compared to my Santro the Ikon's brakes simply lack the bite. While driving defensively and anticipating events is fine, there are situations where you simply need to depress the brake pedal and expect the car to lose speed quickly. The car has clocked around 37k, but it's ten years old. No idea when the pads/liners were last replaced, but my bet is they are still OE. Brake oil was changed to DoT 4 around a month or so back. And IMO most rear brakes which are drum type are self-adjusting. So then is it possible to improve the braking system? I have already got the brake oil replaced a month back, so that's been some help. Should I get new pads and liners? Should I go for different discs? Should I replace the brake booster?
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 18:06	#88
mayankk Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Delhi Posts: 5,236 Thanked: 8,628 Times View My Garage	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? you could look up brake upgrades for the fiesta Mk5 on european online stores, cos as far as i know, they will fit. Last edited by mayankk : 22nd November 2011 at 18:07.
	() Thanks

22nd November 2011, 18:52	#90
suhaas307 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 9,167 Thanked: 14,601 Times	Re: How do you improve an Ikon's brakes?? Yes, the Ikon is known for it's poor brakes. And on the 1.6 (which happens to be a pretty fast car, even now) it's very scary! But there are ways with which you can improve the brakes on your Ikon. - Get the entire brake-assembly thoroughly examined by a workshop personnel/service guy. Parts like brake-cables might require your attention. If the brake-pads need replacement (and in all probability, they do) get them changed. Either approach Ford in India, or look for brake-pads online. The Fiesta Mk IV and the Ikon are essentially, the same cars. The Fiesta is a hatch though. - Get new tyres. People underestimate the importance of tyres and modify the engine for performance and the suspension for handling, but what they don't realize is that tyres are the only things that are in constant contact with the road. A good set of tyres will ensure that your car will brake well and handle well.
	() Thanks