2005 US Grand Prix

Dippy · 23rd June 2005, 10:27

Quote:

They dominated the sport in every aspect, they deserve some RESPECT

They deserve all the RESPECT . From being also rans and having totally unreliable cars in the early 90s , they have come up so high and that is not without hard work.

For the US GP their cars were perfect, the tyres were right so why should they compromise?

Dippy

shuvc · 23rd June 2005, 12:54

Ferrari
True ..
I am not in the least a Ferrari fan (in F1 i.e. ... love their cars otherwise

)
but still I'd concede that they played by the rules and should not be blamed. Think of this situation .. if there were 6 michelin cars and they had not raced and all the rest were bridgestones, would we still have this brouhaha ? OR, if Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi with the bridgestones had a problem, would the other teams have accomodated ?

Sporting spirit ? Naaa .. thats subjective .. you can argue that Ferrari could have compromised and agreed to the chicane, but similarly the other teams could also have run slower ..

Michelin Teams
Don't think they can be blamed legally .. they too played by the rules .. they did start the race and then retired due to 'technical problems' .. what if hypothetically all these teams blew their engines in the warm up lap ? We would have had the same situation.
These teams spends millions on their drivers and equipment .. and when a tyre maker as reputed as Michelin says tyres could blow up anytime, they have no choice but to listen.

Sporting spirit .. same as above ..

Michelin
They made a mistake. Period. To err is human.
I think Chris Goodwin mentioned that the track characteristics were slightly altered on turn 13 (turn 1 for indy500) for the recent Indy500 race on May 29th .. and that contributed to some miscalculation which was discovered during F1 practice ..
Which is why their tyres developed some problem, even though Michelin have been in all F1 races since its inception in Indy.

Thankfully it did not affect the bridgestones, else we may not have had a race at all !!

FIA
I think if there is anyone who should take this on themselves, it should be the FIA. Their rules have gaps. It's their rules that everyone has followed/exploited. Nobody has violated any rule. As many believe, the FIA should ensure a stronger hold (read rules) on the championships to plug such loopholes.
If they don't they will be the biggest losers as people will lose interest in F1. Teams won't lose as alternatives like GPWC will quickly come in to fill the vacuum and they'll start participating in those events.

RX135 · 23rd June 2005, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITS_NOMAD

once again ferrari have proved that they are sick an they can go to any extent to win a race i think they should go to hell...

P.S.: Apology Mods! Can't help it, when even after so much reasoning, people keep on blaming Ferrari for USGP mess.

Dippy · 24th June 2005, 10:47

A funny pic i found on the US GP fiasco

Dippy

sridhar24 · 24th June 2005, 12:17

That pic was good one.

v1p3r · 24th June 2005, 12:24

hahaha...hilarious pic dippy!!!

shravan316 · 24th June 2005, 12:57

LOL!! nice one dippy...

Conan · 24th June 2005, 13:57

If i am not wrong, see the third charge leveled against michelin teams.

http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3212/740.html

it says "wrongfully refused to allow their cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tyres as they had available".

I think they are referring to the chicane addition at the turn 13.

If its true the blame is fair and sqaure on "Michelin teams" not michelin tyres.
I hope they are given one BIG hefty fine, for bringing disrepute to the sport.

PS: Ralf's accident was horrific. Imagine spinning at 300+ kmph and hitting
the wall. Lucky to escape alive.

Conan

RX135 · 24th June 2005, 14:15

I find Max Mosely's view very balanced one, having rationally answered most of the questions raised by people (including few T-BHPians here).

Source : http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3218/740.html

Minardi · 24th June 2005, 14:59

Paul Stoddart of Minardi has an interesting perspective on the farcial GP.

http://www.minardi.it/press/dettagli...ComunicatiTipo=

M

Rtech · 24th June 2005, 15:20

Stoddart needs to drop his holier-than-thou attitude! He wanted the points, and the millions of dollars of tavel money that comes along with it, as badly as Jordan. He's just not man enough to admit it, so is using the "we raced because Jordan raced" bit.

It reminds me of 2nd grade, where kids tell the teacher "I did it because the other guy did it too!".

RX135 · 24th June 2005, 15:23

@Minardi, I went through Paul Stoddart's complete interview and I had an impression that, his stance has more to do with his relations with Max Mosley, than what was more appropriate at that situation. He brushes aside FIA alternatives, fears Max Mosley for heavy sanctions if he sides with Michelin team, but then openly criticises FIA and him. Funny part is that he keeps on referring to "majority of people", but then out of 10, 7 were Michelin teams and affected ones. Don't need an expert to say what would be majority decision.

Minardi · 24th June 2005, 15:35

I liked Paul's use of the word FIAsco

merve_extreme · 27th June 2005, 01:03

that Pauly is one very biased and self centerd person,trying to bash ferrari and max for what they did to him in Melbourne this year.als he raced to unlock the travel funds from FIA.he just could not resist it.

Shan2nu · 27th June 2005, 02:47

I voted for Michelin. As a tyre maker, it's their duty to provide the right tyre. They weren't even confident of the tyres lasting for more than 10 laps.

I don't think Ferrari were selfish when they refused the chicane being put up. They did their home work, bridgestone have been sweating it out to get it right, so why would they want to give all that away?

FIA, I think gave the Michelin runners the option to change their left rear tyre during the race but, Michelin weren't even sure about the tyres lasting between pitstops.

They all played a small part in spoiling the US GP but, Michelin did 90% of the damage.

I agree, there's something called "Greater Interest of Sport" and "The Spirit of Sport" but, there has to be a limit to how much, the rules can be flexed.

I mean think about it. Tom, if you sit for a math paper for which you've been working hard for a whole year and then suddenly, 90% of the students in your class request the teacher to let them cheat as they haven't been studying, would you let that happen? Ofcourse not!!!

That is exactly what Ferrari did. Why should they let their efforts go to waste just bcoz Michelin haven't been paying attention!!

Shan2nu

View Poll Results: Whom would you blame for the Indianapolis fiasco?
Michelin	38	59.38%
FIA, Bernie	8	12.50%
Ferrari	11	17.19%
All teams using Michelin tyres	7	10.94%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

23rd June 2005, 12:54	#152
shuvc Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 2,911 Thanked: 360 Times View My Garage	FIA. Period ! Ferrari True .. I am not in the least a Ferrari fan (in F1 i.e. ... love their cars otherwise ) but still I'd concede that they played by the rules and should not be blamed. Think of this situation .. if there were 6 michelin cars and they had not raced and all the rest were bridgestones, would we still have this brouhaha ? OR, if Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi with the bridgestones had a problem, would the other teams have accomodated ? Sporting spirit ? Naaa .. thats subjective .. you can argue that Ferrari could have compromised and agreed to the chicane, but similarly the other teams could also have run slower .. Michelin Teams Don't think they can be blamed legally .. they too played by the rules .. they did start the race and then retired due to 'technical problems' .. what if hypothetically all these teams blew their engines in the warm up lap ? We would have had the same situation. These teams spends millions on their drivers and equipment .. and when a tyre maker as reputed as Michelin says tyres could blow up anytime, they have no choice but to listen. Sporting spirit .. same as above .. Michelin They made a mistake. Period. To err is human. I think Chris Goodwin mentioned that the track characteristics were slightly altered on turn 13 (turn 1 for indy500) for the recent Indy500 race on May 29th .. and that contributed to some miscalculation which was discovered during F1 practice .. Which is why their tyres developed some problem, even though Michelin have been in all F1 races since its inception in Indy. Thankfully it did not affect the bridgestones, else we may not have had a race at all !! FIA I think if there is anyone who should take this on themselves, it should be the FIA. Their rules have gaps. It's their rules that everyone has followed/exploited. Nobody has violated any rule. As many believe, the FIA should ensure a stronger hold (read rules) on the championships to plug such loopholes. If they don't they will be the biggest losers as people will lose interest in F1. Teams won't lose as alternatives like GPWC will quickly come in to fill the vacuum and they'll start participating in those events. Last edited by shuvc : 23rd June 2005 at 13:01.
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24th June 2005, 10:47	#154
Dippy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 7,801 Thanked: 4,496 Times	A funny pic i found on the US GP fiasco Dippy
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24th June 2005, 12:17	#155
sridhar24 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,049 Thanked: 90 Times	That pic was good one.
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24th June 2005, 12:24	#156
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,365 Thanked: 7,507 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (7)	hahaha...hilarious pic dippy!!!
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24th June 2005, 12:57	#157
shravan316 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,029 Thanked: 10 Times	LOL!! nice one dippy...
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24th June 2005, 13:57	#158
Conan BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 223 Thanked: 0 Times	If i am not wrong, see the third charge leveled against michelin teams. http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3212/740.html it says "wrongfully refused to allow their cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tyres as they had available". I think they are referring to the chicane addition at the turn 13. If its true the blame is fair and sqaure on "Michelin teams" not michelin tyres. I hope they are given one BIG hefty fine, for bringing disrepute to the sport. PS: Ralf's accident was horrific. Imagine spinning at 300+ kmph and hitting the wall. Lucky to escape alive. Conan
	() Thanks

24th June 2005, 14:15	#159
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 77 Times	I find Max Mosely's view very balanced one, having rationally answered most of the questions raised by people (including few T-BHPians here). Source : http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3218/740.html
	() Thanks

24th June 2005, 14:59	#160
Minardi BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 413 Thanked: 15 Times	Paul Stoddart of Minardi has an interesting perspective on the farcial GP. http://www.minardi.it/press/dettagli...ComunicatiTipo= M
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24th June 2005, 15:20	#161
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	Stoddart needs to drop his holier-than-thou attitude! He wanted the points, and the millions of dollars of tavel money that comes along with it, as badly as Jordan. He's just not man enough to admit it, so is using the "we raced because Jordan raced" bit. It reminds me of 2nd grade, where kids tell the teacher "I did it because the other guy did it too!".
	() Thanks

24th June 2005, 15:23	#162
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 77 Times	@Minardi, I went through Paul Stoddart's complete interview and I had an impression that, his stance has more to do with his relations with Max Mosley, than what was more appropriate at that situation. He brushes aside FIA alternatives, fears Max Mosley for heavy sanctions if he sides with Michelin team, but then openly criticises FIA and him. Funny part is that he keeps on referring to "majority of people", but then out of 10, 7 were Michelin teams and affected ones. Don't need an expert to say what would be majority decision.
	() Thanks

24th June 2005, 15:35	#163
Minardi BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 413 Thanked: 15 Times	I liked Paul's use of the word FIAsco
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27th June 2005, 01:03	#164
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	that Pauly is one very biased and self centerd person,trying to bash ferrari and max for what they did to him in Melbourne this year.als he raced to unlock the travel funds from FIA.he just could not resist it.
	() Thanks

27th June 2005, 02:47	#165
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 127 Times View My Garage	I voted for Michelin. As a tyre maker, it's their duty to provide the right tyre. They weren't even confident of the tyres lasting for more than 10 laps. I don't think Ferrari were selfish when they refused the chicane being put up. They did their home work, bridgestone have been sweating it out to get it right, so why would they want to give all that away? FIA, I think gave the Michelin runners the option to change their left rear tyre during the race but, Michelin weren't even sure about the tyres lasting between pitstops. They all played a small part in spoiling the US GP but, Michelin did 90% of the damage. I agree, there's something called "Greater Interest of Sport" and "The Spirit of Sport" but, there has to be a limit to how much, the rules can be flexed. I mean think about it. Tom, if you sit for a math paper for which you've been working hard for a whole year and then suddenly, 90% of the students in your class request the teacher to let them cheat as they haven't been studying, would you let that happen? Ofcourse not!!! That is exactly what Ferrari did. Why should they let their efforts go to waste just bcoz Michelin haven't been paying attention!! Shan2nu
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