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Old 13th October 2010, 11:36   #151
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To add 2 pennies of my own here, I do agree that the Aria is priced quite high for the top of the line variant. What I feel is, one of the strategies of TATA could also be to make the masses aware that TATA has such high end producta as well. A year in the market and people will become a bit more comfortable with the idea that TATA does sell 17L rupee vehicles.

I do agree to this as well, that just because people become comfortable with the idea of a 17 L vehicle does not mean they will buy it, but definitely change the perception of a TATA vehicle which would help future TATA products.

For Aria to succeed the product needs to be a good one more than anything else. The sales will follow. IMHO sales figures settling down at even 1200-1500 Aria's a month should be good for TATA. The base and the middle variants will constitute more of the sales though.
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Old 13th October 2010, 12:05   #152
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Default Superb review GTO

This is an exhaustive and excellent review.

I myself own a Tata Indica Vista, so I can say that the quality has improved immensely from the Indica to the ARIA.

Though, I still don't get the "Wow!!!" feeling looking at the ARIA in totality. Like the stapled stuff on the floor and other small bits, Tata should really come out of this "It is OKKKKK" attitude now. After Tata overtook the Hyundai's spot in August for the number of cars sold. So # 2 spot needs some revamping.

About ARIA, I really liked the detailed-ness inside and outside. Like the C-pillar A/C vents, abundant storage space everywhere (doors, seats, roof,...). The colour combination is feels top class. The material used in the car is used by MB, then it must be top-class too.

Automatic wipers, lights in all the doors, skuff plates, audio controls on the steering, and few other features are a big leap for Tata.

All said and done, the price factor does not seem to be in favour of big volumes. This is also a first-timer for Tata. Tata vehicles were always known for best value-for-money vehicles in India. But, looks like Tata want to test the other side of the world this time.

I wish all the success to Tata for ARIA and hope it comes out well and stands in the competition.

I have a hunch, the prices might come down by 50k-1L when it is actually launched and ready for rollout. Lets wait and watch...
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Old 13th October 2010, 12:13   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i am seeing here people cribbling about tata launching the car in a wrong segment and no one will be willing to put 16 lacs on tata.

however i feel this is a big leap ahead for tata.
even if this is not a hit in indian territory i am sure exports will speak the volume.

i remember the Bill Of Material (BOM) itself was 10 lacs plus which all high quality parts going in without a compromise.
so one cannot say they priced it above safari and all. its not about pricing its about BOM-cost + manufacturing cost + profit margin.

when tata used to price low, we cribbled that the quality is not upto the mark, now then they have put in high quality costly parts we say i cannot spend more on tata even if they put high quality parts.

i am driving a dodge avenger here in US and i can post how poor the quality and finish of plastics is in the cabin on such a premium car.

our interiors are way ahead if i compare them with that of aria
For a Fabric seat base Pleasure model for a 13 Lakhs ex show room price NO alloy wheels? Real Shame. Wrong value preposition. I tend to understand TATA wants to sell Aria on exports rather domestic. IMHO Pricing for base Pleasure model is high by minimum 1.5 lakhs. Disappointed on TATA's pricing. Stapled floor carpet on brand new test car, poor seat hinge covers speaks typical TATA style fit and finish even on their PREMIUM priced vehicle that too the one given for test evaluation to team-BHP shows TATA's lack lusture attitude.
The lack of full console box on floor between front row seats is a big miss. TATA's Compalascence cannot be complimented

Last edited by harimakesh : 13th October 2010 at 12:14.
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Old 13th October 2010, 12:17   #154
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Recently I travelled a lot in the Hyundai i800. It was a very spacious people mover including the third row which had more than sufficient space for adults. It also had a lot of boot space. Of course the i800 seems much bigger than Aria. I wish the Aria's third row was as much as the i800. The rear tyre walls also seem to be intruding into the third row seating space narrowing it side to side.
Tatas seemed to have avoided a bare bones variant to avoid the taxi market.The finish(from the photos) seems as good or better than my Figo and they seem to be continually improving with successive models. Hoping it will be niggle free and also have a good after sales experience.
I do hope Tata succeeds with this vehicle as it would be a big leap for them in terms of perception
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Old 13th October 2010, 12:41   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
In the 80s, some of the leading Japanese brands launched luxury marques to compete with the world's best: Toyota launched Lexus, Honda: Acura, Mazda: Infiniti and so on.
Sorry for being picky, but Infiniti is Nissan's luxury marque. Mazda's luxury marques were Eunos and Amati (both were short-lived forays; the latter was almost still-born!).
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Old 13th October 2010, 13:03   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
+1.

Just had a look at that video - indeed, there's rear wheelspin with none on the front (which should have been there if in 4x4 mode). Or is it that torque transfer to the front wheels happens after the rear wheelspin achieves a certain speed?
Alaising can give rise to artifacts, and the video is of very poor quality, but it seems like there is wheelspin (rear only) when trying to reverse. Not when trying to go forward. That is what I was referring to.

You mean the Kicka$s Independent Suspension System? Or is it that the Aria is meant to be a Kids' Independent Salary Showcase?
You really can't Keep It Simple, Shamindra, can you?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Sutripta,

In the short time with the Tata team we barely went into those details as there were a lot of other things to cover. All i know is that there is a single electronic clutch for the F/R bias and then mechanical diffs beyond that.

It is the fashion nowadays to call everything electronic. Electronics handle signal processing. There is a limit to the power a (small, fitting in TC) purely electrical clutch can handle. Electronics commanding electricals to assist mechanical/ hydraulic systems. Of Course. But the reliability implications!

Here's the extent of what was shared with us regarding engine / drivetrain :
(i apologise for the quality of pictures, wasn't intending to share em!)

Attachment 438209

Improvements of the Safari's engine
Attachment 438208
Handout seems to have been written by copywriters, not engineers.



This is something that really puzzled me as well!
As mentioned in an earlier post, cost, weight, complexity and fuel efficiency could have all been saved with a 4x2.
Even more important for Tatas is reliability. Inhouse:- think of the original editions of the Safari GBox. Bought out (Borg Warner):- Ask any MM Armada Grand or Bolero 4x4 owner!

However, i think the reason 4x4 was included was to enable the Aria to be positioned as a 'crossover'. A differentiator from the Xylos and Innovas (MPVs), and a USP of the Aria that can let it be presented as more of a lifestyle vehicle, closer to the Fortuners and Captivas.
Differentiate yes. But in (average kya hai obsessed) India 4x4 is seen as a liability. Lots of other (noncostly) ways of doing that.
R
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Old 13th October 2010, 13:25   #157
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My only gripe is 3ed row space , They should provide a seating configuration with captains seat in middle row and last row on rails and also one more version with 6 captains seat like Scorpio provides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
1. The car is outlandishly priced for a 'Tata' - a brand is associated with quantity over quality
That is what they want to change with this pricing perception of people towards the brand, why you should associate Tata always with cheap when you don't necessarily associate Titan brand with cheap.
The answer is very simple Titan has sub-brands and offshoots like Regalia , Tanishq which sound expensive and you don't think of titan as just sub 2K watch like Sonata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
2. At its price segment, it will never sell in large volumes. I would be surprised if it sold more than 400-500 cars a month
A good number seeing how many Captiva , Endeaver sell per month. The spinoff is brand perception change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
5. Is a AWD Crossover a USP at all?
Why not what for 900 people buy fortuner at 23 lakhs on-road instead of innova.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anu21v View Post
I am sure you have heard the word "cross-subsidization".

Yeah why not, even after knowing well that , "Tata Steel is World's lowest cost Steel manufacturer"
I hope you do know that holding company Tata Sons has around 4-5% share in both tata motors and tata steel. Why share holders of tata steel or any group company should cross subsidize anything ?

As TCS shareholder I am happy that they do not provide any concessional service to TML or vice-versa.

Even divisions in same company do not depend on each other and in case they do then companies have very bad fall Motorola and Lucent are two examples which came to the mind.

Aria project should stand on it's own merit , if it's expensive so be it market will decide.

Last edited by amitk26 : 13th October 2010 at 13:28.
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Old 13th October 2010, 13:33   #158
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Default a lot of Acuras were rebadged Hondas from the home market.

Thanks. You made it clear.

You can not re badge a Tata in India. Afterall, those Hodas were re-badged in a country which was not known of any home-=grown Hondas. but that is not the case for Tata.
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Old 13th October 2010, 14:15   #159
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Excellent review, like always.

First of all, let me say that I feel proud that an Indian company has created such a feature rich product. But it would have been even better if the R&D was totally indigenous.

The pricing of 12-15 lakhs is in no man's land. Tata Motors must be feeling that they have managed to cleverly exploit the gap between 10-12 lakh Innova/Scorpio/Safari and the 15-20 lakh SUVs. But, IMHO, there is no such segment. Big families who need a people mover would buy a proper 7 seater MUV @ < 10 lakhs whereas the image conscious customer would buy a proper SUV with good road presence and snob value. Enthusiasts would prefer to buy a proper SUV with off-roading ability. Indian market doesn't need a XO MUV, especially not at this price.

Like many members have suggested in the other thread on expectations from Tata/Mahindra products over 1 million, I also feel that Tata should have created a separate premium sub-brand for launching this kind of product. With the current unpolished level of Tata dealerships and service centres, it would be difficult to attract image conscious customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The inbuilt GPS has an option to guide you to the nearest Tata dealership / service station. Neat, especially when in unfamiliar locations:
Niggle free reliability of this product is yet to be ascertained. I hope that the GPS feature of guiding you to the nearest Tata service centre works properly for the beta testers (read early buyers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
For those looking at a workhorse / MPV / 7 passenger, the Innova suddenly does NOT feel overpriced. Unless one needs AWD, the Innova remains the best MPV in India.
So the ARIA launch would actually boost the sales figues for Innova.

Rohan
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Old 13th October 2010, 14:27   #160
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All Tata cars look like the Indica, Aria no exception. And their 14k pricing is crazy, i was hoping that they will compete with Innova & Xylo but at this price no one's going to visit Tata showrooms even more.

In my home state there was a time atleast taxi operators preffered Tata's Indica, now even they have abandoned the Tatas other than Sumo owners.

Indigo is selling for one reason only it gives a car with a boot at the lowest price.

Manza is however being seen on the road but still less than SX4.

I will be surprised to see even one Aria by month end in Guwahati roads.
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Old 13th October 2010, 14:55   #161
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wow!! great and very detailed review. Aria is ready to hit any heart. Innova, xylo, Captiva etc will face a tough time.
Interiors have a very plush looks, exterior have a futuristic one.. GPS, AWD etc rocks!

Last edited by k_shanz : 13th October 2010 at 14:59.
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Old 13th October 2010, 15:07   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_shanz View Post
wow!! great and very detailed review. Aria is ready to hit any heart. Innova, xylo, Captiva etc will face a tough time.
Interiors have a very plush looks, exterior have a futuristic one.. GPS, AWD etc rocks!
Aria taking away a few numbers from the top end variant of innova, safari and the scorpio is a possibility. But taking away numbers from Xylo and other MUVs seems a bit far fetched.

It will very interesting to see the market reaction to Aria and its sales overs the next one quarter.
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Old 13th October 2010, 16:05   #163
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Amazing review! Got me totally hooked. Saw the Aria in flesh yesterday at a dealership here. Looks HUGE. I am sure it will have an amazing road presence. The car looks really planted and the tires are huge too. The pride variant is around 17 lacs OTR Nagpur, overpriced by 1.5 lacs IMO. The Prestige variant makes sense I think. But overall, a robust looking car!
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Old 13th October 2010, 16:10   #164
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Certainly speaks volumes on how Tata have progressed as a car manufacturer as opposed to a truck manufacturer that they were solely identified as earlier.

I too feel the price point is a challenge - Tata certainly needs to pull up their socks with After Sales Service in a different league from what it is now.

Love the vehicle otherwise except for it's appearence from the rear. Side view is good to my eyes thought the front look like it could do with a bit of stylistic tweaking with the lower grille shape and the main grille a bit more vertical. The D pillar treatment is certainly individualistic and will stand out in a stylish way and yes it does remind one of the CRV a bit.

I like the interiors more than the exteriors actually...all in all a very good effort; especially in the context of Indian design/manufacturing capability when the Aria was being developed - It should be close to world class now - If only the price could be as tasty - mmmm lets see - off with the 4WD option...send the ESP packing to the options list there...some price correction here... and voila...wot say Tata?

Last edited by R.K.Ramesh : 13th October 2010 at 16:18.
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Old 13th October 2010, 16:36   #165
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Maybe if someone find it related:
Anyone is having sales Numbers of Toyota Landcruiser ar 85+L VS sales Number of Audi Q7 and Q5 and Porsche Cayanne

Extrapolated we can do some future scenario building...
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