[malq]

Road transport is in the concurrent list, Centre and State, and the "all-India permit issued from any one State need not be valid in another State unless the required fees have been paid POST local legislations. Yellow on black does require commercial licence and pay commercial taxes in some States, try taking one to UP. Vintage cars get commercial licences in some States (Rajasthan is one example) but the driver then has to hold a commercial licence.

ZoomCar can say what they want, it is the fine print from the State as well as on the insurance that counts.

Anyways, as I said, wait for more videos to surface. Everybody has digital cameras. And the sound may not be muted this time around.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by malq

Damage to property is one thing. Trying to endanger another person's life by trying to run over him is something else. That answers the dashcam footage, shown so far, and obviously just a very short clip of something much longer.

Do you not see the car being hit by the locals before the driver tries to "run him over" (according to you?).

If your car is being hit with rocks and stones, and the glasses are being broken, are you going to sit there and try and talk to the lunatics?

[wanderer4x4]

Originally Posted by malq

Local people have to get first priority. Everywhere. Outsiders are welcome to take their tourism elsewhere if that is how it evolves. Look at your private driving licences carefully - does it allow you to drive rental self-drive cars on an all-India basis or only in the State of registration of the said rental self-drive car?
.............Damage to property is one thing. Trying to endanger another person's life by trying to run over him is something else. That answers the dashcam footage, shown so far, and obviously just a very short clip of something much longer.

Wake up and smell the coffee. ........

Sir, you are absolutely correct. Locals should get priority everywhere. They should get priority in setting their own rules, enforce these themselves and most of all get priorities in smashing and breaking private properties to make their points. And the boorish, law breaking, foul mouthed outsiders should better submit themselves to these treatments by the locals. Serves them right for being outsiders daring to enter a locals turf.
Locals to get priorities over govt and civil administration to enforce all laws and amen to the taxi mafia..oh sorry, messiah.

Originally Posted by bullrun87

I found another reply by a ladakhi in the ladakh in the media facebook group. He attempts to present the "other perspective"
............
2. This car was a rental car , and it is widely circulated on the internet that no self driven car will be allowed .. The guy being a member of teambhp especially knew about it .
3 . on being stopped , he instead tried to run away . he hav to stop somehow as he can't ran over the locals.
4. On being stopped ,one guy asked to come step out of car for negotiation (his gesture )
7. The guy is the white cap was almost crushed (look carefully @ 01:01 ) under the right front wheel . according to sources he allegedly suffered a fracture .
......
..........many have drive knowingly or unknowingly beyond the leh and were made to pay the fine.
10. No outside vehicles who have gone against the resolution was harmed , it was sorted out by peaceful negotiations .
11.These guys dare to go against the resolution as they were there on reference from some influential person.

14. The pt12 looks convincing also because the convoy as they claim are a member of teambhp . And if you know teambhp , places like ladakh could serve only one purpose for them i.e offroading . But unfortunately they seems to have chosen the wrong place .
experts and authorities bars cars from going near the lake ( 500 metre ,according to experts )

.......... Intentionally , because ladakh will not allow these offroad junkies to explore ecosensetive place n water bodies with their machine , this is done as such action abuses the fragile environment eg. .......
Few people are spreading the words as they were made to believe some sorts of massacre has happened , this is because teambhp is a website where only the member can comment and discuss , non-members like us can only read ,share what they post ,comment.

Merely passing a resolution by the taxi mafia will enable them to put up check posts and haul you out of your car for "negotiations". If you knowingly or unknowingly "dare" to go against their resolution, we have a solution for that also. Pay the "fine" as required by the local law.

And now, the above fb post is making it Ladakh vs Tbhp. Let's make it very clear. We are not against Ladakh, we are not against ladakhis. We share the same concern for the environment. And we are ready not to drive there if there is a legitimate act or rule passed by the executive or the judiciary. But, no sorry, few goons can not throw stones at us at his whims and expect us to respect their writ. And that's precisely the prime issue.

[Torqy]

Originally Posted by cUjO

They dont understand that its easy for them to get a taste of their own medicine.

Already our cities are full, with pollution, vehicles etc. Why cant we come up with a solution like this taxi mafia? Lets kick out all non locals... Yeah that should solve this problem.

Were you serious? Sorry, if i missed out the sarcasm.
Also, you seemed to have missed your own point - "They dont understand that its easy for them to get a taste of their own medicine."

[cUjO]

Originally Posted by malq

Road transport is in the concurrent list, Centre and State, and the "all-India permit issued from any one State need not be valid in another State unless the required fees have been paid POST local legislations. Yellow on black does require commercial licence and pay commercial taxes in some States, try taking one to UP. Vintage cars get commercial licences in some States (Rajasthan is one example) but the driver then has to hold a commercial licence.

Dear Sir! The zoomcar vehicle comes with a self drive permit for that particular commercial vehicle which you book. I have gone through them once and find them to be extremely transparent in their working ways. Also they clearly mention that the vehicle needs to stop at the state border RTO and pay the requisite visitor permit fee and collect the permit(usually valid for 7 days). Ive seen taxi drivers with commercial plates doing the same. Mind you, the fee paid at the RTO is no small amount and combined with the toll paid for a journey only somebody seriously interested would hire a vehicle from them. I think that makes it even more obvious that a person hiring zoomcar is well and truly a driving enthusiast who truly drives for the pleasure inspite of the numerous headaches in doing so. Blindly stating that zoomcar drivers are the problem is so far out from the truth that i feel pity on the locals who are truly trying desperately to make this a winning situation when there is absolutely no excuse.

Originally Posted by malq

ZoomCar can say what they want, it is the fine print from the State as well as on the insurance that counts.

Again to understand how it works, I'd suggest you to try using their service once. They have actually made commercial vehicles easier to use and approach for commoners. Your blind support is leading you away from the obvious.

Anyways, as I said, wait for more videos to surface. Everybody has digital cameras. And the sound may not be muted this time around.

Wouldnt we all love that?

Originally Posted by Torqy

Were you serious? Sorry, if i missed out the sarcasm.
Also, you seemed to have missed your own point - "They dont understand that its easy for them to get a taste of their own medicine."

yeah the sarcasm was slightly off there...

I did mean the tasting part though. If the rest of India decided to gang up on them, they would surely get what we mean.

[NowNew7]

Originally Posted by bullrun87

No outside vehicles who have gone against the resolution was harmed , it was sorted out by peaceful negotiations .

These guys dare to go against the resolution as they were there on reference from some influential person.

The pt12 looks convincing also because the convoy as they claim are a member of teambhp . And if you know teambhp , places like ladakh could serve only one purpose for them i.e offroading .

Since when do unilaterally made resolutions supersede laws and are enforceable by what in effect is an illegal militia?

The point about Team BHP is hilarious! We're all off roaders is it? The only time I may be considered to be offroading is when I try to drive to my office in the IT capital where the road surface is non existent...

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by malq

What would I do if I was somehow pushed in front of a vehicle revving to get out? Think about it carefully and then blame somebody for picking up a stone.

Uhhh.... okay... I thought about it; What would I do? Well, I'd quickly get myself up off the ground / pick whomever had fallen up off the ground and get out of the way; This would actually take less time than it would to go retrieve a stone, threaten the driver against proceeding, then call someone else to pick up the fallen old guy or let him pick himself up (I can't pick him up, obviously, since I am fully occupied with this large stone that is in my hands).

Do think about that carefully. (This is ridiculous).

So yeah, I'm going to blame that IDIOT for picking up a big stone when he should've been working on getting human bodies (his own or his friend's) out of the way of danger.

I'm not picking sides here really - having seen the video had a few questions myself. I realize we've mainly been hearing one point of view / perspective on this incident, and I acknowledge the concern of some on this basis. What bothers me, though, is that Ladakhspa's account (as posted on FB) which all sounds very reasonable and nice and sympathy-arousing, just doesn't seem reconcilable AT ALL with the video - so if this is the same incident in question, who's lying (and why)? I'm wondering if "L" is going to post a copy of his own FIR (since he accuses the travelers of a hit-and-run incident in which a pedestrian's leg was broken - a serious enough crime in itself), or medical reports, or ???

As I said, my wife (who's Indian) and I are friendly with a number of Ladakhis personally (even a taxi-wallah or two), and between us have visited there at least half a dozen times over a decade. We never had any problems with anyone, ever (apart from one absolutely horrible driver hired from Leh to Srinagar). I did find Ladakhis in Leh and elsewhere to be friendly, reasonable people. But I know human nature, and what it is capable of - and Ladakhis are every bit as human as anyone else. Whatever else may have transpired, they went way beyond reasonable limits in this incident (and others). If nothing else, the law (whether India's or J&K's) itself should be clear enough on that point.

-Eric

[Chetan_Rao]

The second Facebook retort is as bad as the first one (and No Sir, I'm not referring to your language skills, since you seem to have taken offence to my previous remark out-of-context. My comment was about the damage you're doing to your own community by your irresponsible and petulant representation of their grievances, instead of making a reasonable argument supported with evidence, if any, in your possession).

The whole post has an Us Vs. Them tone, how the outsiders refuse to follow 'The Resolution' which has no legal leg to stand on.

I'll let the unfounded, uninformed and unnecessary jibes at T-BHP go, not to mention all sorts of misdemeanor claims without supplying any evidence and most statements based on supposed 'facts' heard from others.

Did the locals file an FIR for the alleged hit & run, or did they miss it because they were focusing on doing a good job at destroying property and endangering lives (their own too, ironically)? I'd hope the police didn't give them the cold shoulder like they did to the 'outsiders'.

[SILVERWOOD]

Originally Posted by malq

What would I do if I was somehow pushed in front of a vehicle revving to get out? Think about it carefully and then blame somebody for picking up a stone.

+ 1 on this malq.

I fail to understand why people do not go by logic.By picking up the stone (Rather we call it a boulder going by its sheer size),this guy was 'JUST' trying to protect himself and his 'PEACEFUL' Ladhakis from the 'HOOLIGAN' driver who came to Ladakh with the intention of killing him and his friends.

All these 'PEACEFUL' bunch of Ladhakis did was that
1,They flagged the vehicle without any constitutional right
2,They tried to snatch his key
3,They wanted to topple the vehicle by lifting it &
4,They picked up stones (boulders.?) and damaged the vehicle without caring for the safety of the occupants.

The 'HOOLIGAN' driver should be arrested immediately for speeding off and saving few lives in the bargain which is a ''NON BAILABLE OFFENCE''

Waseem....

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by malq

I have friends in the tourism business, summers Ladakh, winters Goa. From them I hear - we don't want such boorish tourists. The lot here don't want to go to Ladakh anymore. Seems like a fit to me. Both will survive without each other.

That kinds of adds on to my story when I made the trip 10 years back. Even during that time, many of the hotels did not have too many staff who were localities. Some of the richer ones actually owned the hotel and buildings, the staff was purely hired on contract basis (from Nepal,Jharkhand etc.). And the staff kept shuttling between Goa and Ladakh. I was really surprised to know that. With a tourist season of only 5 months, many of the big-wigs in the area may have found other sources of income which would allow a decent level of survival. The small fries, we will have to see the impact of a boycott.

Trying to endanger another person's life by trying to run over him is something else.

Agree with you completely. I would request other forum members to show me a place in India, where people allow a vehicle to go by when a local chap has been hit or run over. I can fully empathise with the driver who tried to make an escape, because he wanted to keep himself and family safe. Perhaps he can reason out during a trial in the court, but in such cases the mob mentality is what would come to play. This behaviour is not Ladakh specific; but I am willing to be corrected.

Originally Posted by bullrun87

7. The guy is the white cap was almost crushed (look carefully @ 01:01 ) under the right front wheel . according to sources he allegedly suffered a fracture .

But the way he ran off to take a stone and then dump it on the hood of the car, I don't think he suffered any major injury.

9. the resolution was passed , with support of all business organisation ,religious organisations . it was in effect from last two months , many have drive knowingly or unknowingly beyond the leh and were made to pay the fine.

Fine paid to whom? To the taxi union? That is nothing but extortion. I can understand if a fine (or any tax,cess) is levied by the J&K state government. But other wise the "fine collection" seems to be a neat work of extortion. Either the taxi mafia is ignorant of the law, or they are just being what they are - a mafia.

Originally Posted by cUjO

Ladakh or any other tourist place will not survive as long as they dont learn and understand the meaning of the word "accomodating".

Till around 15-20 years back, Ladakh was an area which was not even the radar of tourists. Leave alone driving down there, people did not even go there using rented cars etc. Only people who may have gone there, or visited it would be the defence people or their relatives. But still Ladakhis survived. So if Ladakh can still survive without tourist money, then the life would just go on for them. Remember, they are not having an enjoyable life just because of tourism alone.

[mayankk]

Well, the latest, from the supposed sane voice from ladakh(some cabbie from the place) is that if your car has a tbhp sticker, your car is finished, white, yellow, black or muave.
Search for #teambhp on facebook.
There's a couple of foreign groups who'd put in a query about the safety aspect of their planned trip, and the brown nosing had to be seen. "No sir. You're our guest sir. Please come sir "yowza!


Edit : in the news now
http://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/p...pe-243421.html

[SJD@NewDelhi]

So here is a fresh share from "Tsewang Namgyal" of the original post of "Skarma Zotpa Tharchen" in the FB group of "The Himalayan Club". Thought it imperative to share here because Team-BHP name has cropped up predominantly in their show-cause reply now (earlier their vindication was against Zoom Car). I didn't know I was a member of a group known for its "offroading junkies" ["And if you know teambhp , places like ladakh could serve only one purpose for them i.e offroading . "].

Here is the shared post:
"Have seen the video on YouTube ?? , Go see it once again

Few points to be noted .
1. A private car ( crv\ santafe ) leading the fortuner is also a outside car , the car passed freely and no one even tried to stop it ,
2. This car was a rental car , and it is widely circulated on the internet that no self driven car will be allowed .. The guy being a member of teambhp especially knew about it .
3 . on being stopped , he instead tried to run away . he hav to stop somehow as he can't ran over the locals.
4. On being stopped ,one guy asked to come step out of car for negotiation (his gesture )
5 . we can't see any thing like hockey stick , stones or any weapons in their hands , this proves there was no intention of harming initially.
6 . There's no audio and this is for a reason , according to first hand informations I got . when stopped he instead of negotiating starts using abusive words and said ... " tum gorkhe log jante nhi ho meh kaun hun " ..
7. The guy is the white cap was almost crushed (look carefully @ 01:01 ) under the right front wheel . according to sources he allegedly suffered a fracture .
8. Things turn violent only after that ..

9. the resolution was passed , with support of all business organisation ,religious organisations . it was in effect from last two months , many have drive knowingly or unknowingly beyond the leh and were made to pay the fine.
10. No outside vehicles who have gone against the resolution was harmed , it was sorted out by peaceful negotiations .
11.These guys dare to go against the resolution as they were there on reference from some influential person.
12. Some says ( not first hand information) these guys drove their cars into pangong lake , when local taxi driver tried to stop them , they thrashed them ( yes ,they were a group of 15 cars )
13. The above point look especially convincing since a group of locals stopped them specifically ( the preceding car was not stopped)
14. The pt12 looks convincing also because the convoy as they claim are a member of teambhp . And if you know teambhp , places like ladakh could serve only one purpose for them i.e offroading . But unfortunately they seems to have chosen the wrong place .
experts and authorities bars cars from going near the lake ( 500 metre ,according to experts )
The above points are not to justify what these peoples in the video did as,but since some people ( of the teambhp) are trying everything to damage the image of ladakh , its important to clarify not all they said are true. These peoples are doing it intentionally or unintentionally .
Intentionally , because ladakh will not allow these offroad junkies to explore ecosensetive place n water bodies with their machine , this is done as such action abuses the fragile environment eg. Pangong lake attracts thousands of rare and endangered migratory birds , rampant abuse of pangong could not only effect them but it may become the reason of extinction of many endangered species.
Few people are spreading the words as they were made to believe some sorts of massacre has happened , this is because teambhp is a website where only the member can comment and discuss , non-members like us can only read ,share what they post ,comment. Since , the member are close to each other ( many know each other is real life ) its obvious that only one side of the story will be explored . Most members are endorsing the story blindly ,like many people on the social media ,yet there are some members who understand the effect on fragile environment and has enough space to explore the other side of the story .
It's to your good self whether to believe in one bad story or thousand good stories.
I know this will reach those peoples at teambhp and many will crack jokes on my English, which is fine with me as long as they feel good . But i would like to suggest them to come out of teambhp and discuss in open groups as a discussion between few likeminded peoples will led no where but to the same predetermined end."

[asit.kulkarni93]

I have had quite a lot of discussion on that Facebook page with this Tsewang fellow. All i have understood now is these Taxi Mafias or their supporters have realized that this news is spreading like fire. Their image is at stake. The moment the video was uploaded they had no points to make. So further just to make a big deal out of this issue and defame Team-BHP and the victims in this incident they are posting cooked-up stories on various Facebook pages.

I saw the video atleast 10 times and realized that the fellow fell down because he was hit by the gypsy. The Fortuner driver didn't run over him. In fact he waited for him to get up & then sped away from there. Illegal check post & aggressive Taxi mafia members trying to attack you. What else can a person do? Wait for them to run out of stones or see their family members get injured for no mistake of theirs. I mean i never knew driving a personal/self-driven rental car was a criminal offence in India If its not illegal then no one has a right to illegally stop people driving these cars. Especially civilians apart from a situation where they are asking for some help.

Lets face it these people have now realized that this news is giving Ladakh a negative publicity. I know atleast 15 people who have cancelled their trip to Ladakh. Every point made by the victims here or on FB was questioned. All the questions were answered the very moment the dash-cam video was out. Now they have nothing else so they have come down to cooking-up stories. I am sure Drive Without Borders will win this case and bring justice to the victims. They deserve a harsh punishment.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

All i have understood now is these Taxi Mafias or their supporters have realized that this news is spreading like fire. Their image is at stake.

26,179 people have watched the video, is what I could figure out on YouTube. Well this would certainly have some impact on the tourism, but let us see how things go on from here..

[anilp]

Originally Posted by sachinpk

26,179 people have watched the video, is what I could figure out on YouTube. Well this would certainly have some impact on the tourism, but let us see how things go on from here..

The Times of India story (Indiatimes.com) will take care of the rest. I hope the people of Ladakh will think sensibly now at least. If not, sad.