Short Fueling Tricks At Petrol Stations

WhiteKnight · 16th February 2007, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by benbsb29

Since u bothered to fill from this IOC, may i recommend the Shell bunk hardly a km away from this bunk? Being treated like a king is something i am beginning to get used to here.

Thank you. You don't expect me to step in the IOC pump again, right? I am already a regular at the Shell pump

Jaggu · 16th February 2007, 16:28

on another aspect all together, i have an IOC debit card which gives back the cess amount and so far i have claimed approx 2000 Rs worth fuel over last 2 years.

any idea if shell has any similar affiliated cards?

msdivy · 16th February 2007, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

I asked for 500 Rs fill. The guy stopped at 100Rs and went on to place the dispenser back in the holder. At that moment I called him and said I wanted for 500Rs. The guy filled for 400Rs in the counter and stopped. When I questioned, he said he had filled for 500Rs. his logic being 100Rs filled initially and 400 later. But, unlucky for him, I was damn sure he didn't reset the pump. When I raised my voice, he duly filled another 100rs worth petrol, without a word, proving that I was damn right

I guess they get a kick out of such practices and at closing time, they count no. of 'bakras' they could trap. Dishonesty at its best. Guys beware.

Jaggu · 16th February 2007, 16:47

similar thing happened to me sometime back @ mg road, next to citibank building, but yeah that was me in a gypsy fully drunk and not bothering to get down at filling time, saw the meter showing xxx rs drove out and then realized fuel guage is way below, didnt bother to go back due to obvious reasons :P

raj_aryan4411 · 16th February 2007, 17:15

A similar thing happened to me long time back, i asked the guy to fill for 100Rs.. as soon as he started the machine...a person from some bank..came towards me & started telling about the Smart cards... as soon as i turned towards him...the Petrol guy...stopped the lever & put the lever back..to machine...resetting the machine to zero...& told me the fuel is filled....when me & my frd raised voice against the matter...the manager of the pump came out...& started convincing us..that the new machines r faster than the old ones...and tld us that there is some button thru which the last filled amt can be checked...on checking it was found that the guy has filled only for 65rs and resetted the meter in between... on found guilty...they filled again for 35 bucks...
On asking for the complaint book for registering a complaint about the same...they started saying sorry..& all...

vivekiny2k · 17th February 2007, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

but yeah that was me in a gypsy fully drunk

did you respond to the numerous ethical polls on this forum.

mainak · 1st July 2007, 23:23

this is quite an interesting thread.
I am into designing pumps for 2 years now. Believe me tampering was easy 2-3 years earlier. Now it has curbed, but still not 100 %. Pump owners do so many things to tamper with the amount of fuel displaced. They make extra slots in the sensor disc for the meters, put an extra timing circuit in the counting algorithm for the electronics. !

esteem_lover · 1st July 2007, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainak

this is quite an interesting thread.
I am into designing pumps for 2 years now. Believe me tampering was easy 2-3 years earlier. Now it has curbed, but still not 100 %. Pump owners do so many things to tamper with the amount of fuel displaced. They make extra slots in the sensor disc for the meters, put an extra timing circuit in the counting algorithm for the electronics. !

Thats interesting. could you elaborate & please let us know how we can catch these culprits at their tricks ?

rjstyles69 · 2nd July 2007, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainak

this is quite an interesting thread.
I am into designing pumps for 2 years now. Believe me tampering was easy 2-3 years earlier. Now it has curbed, but still not 100 %. Pump owners do so many things to tamper with the amount of fuel displaced. They make extra slots in the sensor disc for the meters, put an extra timing circuit in the counting algorithm for the electronics. !

Mind helping us mate ? Like e_l said would sure come handy for us while being cheated.

normally_crazy · 2nd July 2007, 14:42

Accha guys - having longer fuel hoses means less fuel ?

mainak · 2nd July 2007, 15:12

ok..
tampering usually can be of two types.
1) benefit of the customer
2) benefit of the pump owners
Obviously type 2 would be the only tampering that would be prevalent. That means delivering less amount of fuel than the display showing.
Normally the fuel is kept in underground tanks. To suck it pumps using motors are used. Now each motor has an associated meter associated to it.
Meter basically can be electronic and mechanical. These days most pumps employ electronic assemblies. Electronic assemblies have a sensor unit which actually is a disc which counts the number of pulses being delivered by motor. Different pumps have different counting logics. As in one pump may dispense 250 ml with one revolution of the sensor disc. While some may dispense 500ml. 250ml dispense pumps are most widespread ( read Gilbarco, Tolkheim, L&T, Midco).
Now if the sensor disc is tampered with then the meter actually counts incorrectly during the delivery. Basically sensor disc consists of slots and opto-couplers are used. So increasing these slots would mean more counting in a revolution directly delivering less fuel.
This is one method of tampering.

SOLUTION : Only possible solution to find it out is to actually dispense 250ml in a measuring can and notice the difference.

Other kind of tampering is already mentioned. For this same purpose a feature has been implemented in modern pumps called 'HOSE SWELL'. This is a setting on whuch amount of fuel which always remains in hose is to be set. So the meter starts counting after dispensing so much ml's. So a person can just go and ask the pump owener about it if he feels he is being cheated. The delivery guys surely would no nothing about it.

Am getting bored to write more
enjoy some pics now

BPCL petrol Pumps being designed

measuring can used to measure amount of fuel being dispensed..

Will expain more later..

madan80 · 2nd July 2007, 15:47

i filled fuel the other day, auto cut off, i went across to pick up some pepsi from the in&out, and came backa nd saw all fuiel all over the floor. I was like "dude. whaat?" he apologized and reduced 7 bucks from the bill. then at another pump, the bill was some 1475.75, the dude swipes my card for 1476, and i was like no, im not signing, because the amount is different. so he grumbles and gives me back 25p. sometimes, they dont get that even if its 25 paise, its still un-ethical.

CARtik · 2nd July 2007, 16:35

Can we pls share city specific info, about bad bunks and good bunks. I know for sure that the shell in bangalore, hosur rd is decent..

CARtik · 2nd July 2007, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

You will have to fill up the fuel yourself.. This is what I do in case the chap at the fuel station does not listen to me.. What we are talking here is that the short bursts of fuel while the lever cuts off is not the correct quantity..We can check it by fillin in their measured jars which are kept for public to check Q & Q - Quantity and Quality..

Also, the trick is to do a short burst and take the pipe immediately thereby you will have around 100-200 ml of fuel in the pipes..This can be avoided if you retain the pipe for around 10 seconds inside the tank after the meter has stopped..

Cheers

Good to know that such jars exist.. Are these a standard at all brands? never knew they existed..

esteem_lover · 2nd July 2007, 21:06

@mainak...Dont the oil companies have a sort of a seal on the pump that we could check if it is intact ?

16th February 2007, 16:28	#47
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,379 Thanked: 17,321 Times	on another aspect all together, i have an IOC debit card which gives back the cess amount and so far i have claimed approx 2000 Rs worth fuel over last 2 years. any idea if shell has any similar affiliated cards?
	() Thanks

16th February 2007, 16:47	#49
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,379 Thanked: 17,321 Times	similar thing happened to me sometime back @ mg road, next to citibank building, but yeah that was me in a gypsy fully drunk and not bothering to get down at filling time, saw the meter showing xxx rs drove out and then realized fuel guage is way below, didnt bother to go back due to obvious reasons :P
	() Thanks

16th February 2007, 17:15	#50
raj_aryan4411 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DELHI Posts: 41 Thanked: Once	A similar thing happened to me long time back, i asked the guy to fill for 100Rs.. as soon as he started the machine...a person from some bank..came towards me & started telling about the Smart cards... as soon as i turned towards him...the Petrol guy...stopped the lever & put the lever back..to machine...resetting the machine to zero...& told me the fuel is filled....when me & my frd raised voice against the matter...the manager of the pump came out...& started convincing us..that the new machines r faster than the old ones...and tld us that there is some button thru which the last filled amt can be checked...on checking it was found that the guy has filled only for 65rs and resetted the meter in between... on found guilty...they filled again for 35 bucks... On asking for the complaint book for registering a complaint about the same...they started saying sorry..& all...
	(1) Thanks

1st July 2007, 23:23	#52
mainak BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 90 Thanked: 0 Times	this is quite an interesting thread. I am into designing pumps for 2 years now. Believe me tampering was easy 2-3 years earlier. Now it has curbed, but still not 100 %. Pump owners do so many things to tamper with the amount of fuel displaced. They make extra slots in the sensor disc for the meters, put an extra timing circuit in the counting algorithm for the electronics. !
	() Thanks

2nd July 2007, 14:42	#55
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,305 Thanked: 544 Times View My Garage	Accha guys - having longer fuel hoses means less fuel ?
	() Thanks

2nd July 2007, 15:12	#56
mainak BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 90 Thanked: 0 Times	ok.. tampering usually can be of two types. 1) benefit of the customer 2) benefit of the pump owners Obviously type 2 would be the only tampering that would be prevalent. That means delivering less amount of fuel than the display showing. Normally the fuel is kept in underground tanks. To suck it pumps using motors are used. Now each motor has an associated meter associated to it. Meter basically can be electronic and mechanical. These days most pumps employ electronic assemblies. Electronic assemblies have a sensor unit which actually is a disc which counts the number of pulses being delivered by motor. Different pumps have different counting logics. As in one pump may dispense 250 ml with one revolution of the sensor disc. While some may dispense 500ml. 250ml dispense pumps are most widespread ( read Gilbarco, Tolkheim, L&T, Midco). Now if the sensor disc is tampered with then the meter actually counts incorrectly during the delivery. Basically sensor disc consists of slots and opto-couplers are used. So increasing these slots would mean more counting in a revolution directly delivering less fuel. This is one method of tampering. SOLUTION : Only possible solution to find it out is to actually dispense 250ml in a measuring can and notice the difference. Other kind of tampering is already mentioned. For this same purpose a feature has been implemented in modern pumps called 'HOSE SWELL'. This is a setting on whuch amount of fuel which always remains in hose is to be set. So the meter starts counting after dispensing so much ml's. So a person can just go and ask the pump owener about it if he feels he is being cheated. The delivery guys surely would no nothing about it. Am getting bored to write more enjoy some pics now BPCL petrol Pumps being designed measuring can used to measure amount of fuel being dispensed.. Will expain more later..
	() Thanks

2nd July 2007, 15:47	#57
madan80 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,358 Thanked: 82 Times View My Garage	i filled fuel the other day, auto cut off, i went across to pick up some pepsi from the in&out, and came backa nd saw all fuiel all over the floor. I was like "dude. whaat?" he apologized and reduced 7 bucks from the bill. then at another pump, the bill was some 1475.75, the dude swipes my card for 1476, and i was like no, im not signing, because the amount is different. so he grumbles and gives me back 25p. sometimes, they dont get that even if its 25 paise, its still un-ethical.
	() Thanks

2nd July 2007, 16:35	#58
CARtik BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 64 Thanked: Once	Can we pls share city specific info, about bad bunks and good bunks. I know for sure that the shell in bangalore, hosur rd is decent..
	() Thanks

2nd July 2007, 21:06	#60
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 513 Times View My Garage	@mainak...Dont the oil companies have a sort of a seal on the pump that we could check if it is intact ?
	() Thanks