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Old 7th December 2012, 03:07   #1051
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
To the best of my knowledge, the only 5W40 grade oil with an API CI-4 or CI-4+ rating (in India) is the Mobil Delvac 1.

But, please remember that the Delvac range is actually that of HDEOs & contrary to popular opinion, it's not the best out there for cars. Though some may argue that a company may use the same formulation as their HDEOs in PCMOs (including diesel spec oils), it may not be entirely true. The only thing that's common is usually the base stock, while the add pack is different. For example, the Delvac 1 carries the Cummins CES 20078 specification & so, it should be good for approximately 30000 miles (normal service) on heavy duty diesel engines. This means that the add pack is very strong, with a huge amount of detergents/sulphur etc & though, this may sound interesting, too much of this stuff is bad. The kind of additives it carries are not required for small diesels like those available in the Indian market; in fact, it may be counter-productive.

My suggestion would be to choose an oil that's as close to the manufacturer specifications as possible or best, choose any decent oil (synthetic/semi-synthetic/mineral) that's close to the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations with an ACEA rating suitable for your car. Let me give an example of the Ford 1.4 TDCi engine. Now this engine is also sold in Peugeot models as the 1.4 HDi & the specification that's required is PSA B71 2290 (similar to Ford's WSS-M2C-913C, which is backwards compatible). One of the closest matches (by comparing the spec sheets) is the Mobil 1 0W40, which is often disregarded as not being good for diesels with turbochargers.

Lastly, my apologies for the long post.
Your post though long is very informative. I have a question for you, I have cruze and am looking for an engine oil. I am tempted to go for Mobil 1 0w40 but the delvac is also there so I am confused, can you suggest the best engine oil for my car. The specification of the manufacturer is 5W30 ACEA A3/B4
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Old 7th December 2012, 08:37   #1052
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Is the API specification / rating better than ACEA? Pointers?
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Old 7th December 2012, 11:01   #1053
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Your post though long is very informative. I have a question for you, I have cruze and am looking for an engine oil. I am tempted to go for Mobil 1 0w40 but the delvac is also there so I am confused, can you suggest the best engine oil for my car. The specification of the manufacturer is 5W30 ACEA A3/B4
First of all, I am glad that my post was useful/informative for you. Secondly, about the engine oil for your car, let me just say that "best" cannot be defined & what anybody can tell you is what oil would serve the purpose well enough for a particular application.

As for Mobil 1 0W40, I am not sure if it meets the GM specification your car engine calls for. I would suggest checking on Mobil's Indian or International website & see if it meets the required specifications.

Drive safe.

Quote:
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Is the API specification / rating better than ACEA? Pointers?
As far as I know, the API is more restrictive in terms of the additive packages in engine oils but the ACEA is more rigorous, which is to say that the ACEA has a set of tests (classified under Laboratory & Engine) that should be passed before an oil an oil can be given a certain rating.

Again, this is a personal prejudice, but I prefer giving more weightage to the ACEA rating.
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Old 7th December 2012, 13:05   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9

First of all, I am glad that my post was useful/informative for you. Secondly, about the engine oil for your car, let me just say that "best" cannot be defined & what anybody can tell you is what oil would serve the purpose well enough for a particular application.

As for Mobil 1 0W40, I am not sure if it meets the GM specification your car engine calls for. I would suggest checking on Mobil's Indian or International website & see if it meets the required specifications.

Drive safe.

As far as I know, the API is more restrictive in terms of the additive packages in engine oils but the ACEA is more rigorous, which is to say that the ACEA has a set of tests (classified under Laboratory & Engine) that should be passed before an oil an oil can be given a certain rating.

Again, this is a personal prejudice, but I prefer giving more weightage to the ACEA rating.
Thanks for the explanation, will surely check. I had another question, some one told me that there are engine oils which do not leave any residue when used. What are these oils and which is the brand of the oil which does not leave any residue.

What is the best price for the Mobil delvac 1 engine oil?

Thanks and appreciate your helps lot.
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Old 7th December 2012, 13:15   #1055
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
What is the best price for the Mobil delvac 1 engine oil?

Best price would be 3700-3800 for 5 ltr can
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Old 7th December 2012, 13:29   #1056
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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Best price would be 3700-3800 for 5 ltr can
Thanks, any location or dealer you would know in Mumbai from whom I can buy.
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Old 8th December 2012, 14:38   #1057
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
As far as I know, the API is more restrictive in terms of the additive packages in engine oils but the ACEA is more rigorous, which is to say that the ACEA has a set of tests (classified under Laboratory & Engine) that should be passed before an oil an oil can be given a certain rating.

Again, this is a personal prejudice, but I prefer giving more weightage to the ACEA rating.
OK, I think both of them convey the same - it is like measuring speed using Kph or Mph or Fps etc.
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Old 8th December 2012, 19:28   #1058
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Thanks, any location or dealer you would know in Mumbai from whom I can buy.
No idea about Mumbai. Our Mumbai members will surely know.
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Old 10th December 2012, 10:55   #1059
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Thanks for the explanation, will surely check. I had another question, some one told me that there are engine oils which do not leave any residue when used. What are these oils and which is the brand of the oil which does not leave any residue.

What is the best price for the Mobil delvac 1 engine oil?

Thanks and appreciate your helps lot.
First of all, apologies for the delayed response. As for leaving residues, all engine oils can leave residues but that happens only when the oil gets burnt. The additives in an oil are the weakest link in this process & it is these additives that cause residues much before the oil in itself actually breaks down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
OK, I think both of them convey the same - it is like measuring speed using Kph or Mph or Fps etc.
Yes, they convey the same thing on a higher perspective & that's what I had also said but then the difference is in terms of restrictions.
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Old 10th December 2012, 19:21   #1060
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Here's an interesting link to graphically compare various oil specs (it doesn't cover everything under the sun, but is very useful info):
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/.../PC/index.html

I sat down and used this tool to graphically compare:

Mobil 0W-40/5W-50:
http://www.mobil1.co.in/products/product_0W40.aspx
http://www.mobil1.co.in/products/product_5W50.aspx

Castrol Edge Titanium 0W-40/5W-40:
http://castroledge.co.in/oils/0w-40
http://castroledge.co.in/oils/5w-40

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/in...x_ultra/ultra/

Castrol Magnatec Professional B4 OE 5W-40:
http://www.lubricantsonline.co.za/up...20%205W-40.pdf

Basically, just look at the the 'meets or exceeds' approval each oil has (listed on their respective websites), add them all in the graphical representation link above, and see how much of each criteria, each oil complies with.
To summarize: I'm definitely going to be giving a lot more importance to each manufacturer's specs, than just going by API or AECA standards.

The recommended oil to use for my Rapid is of a 5W-40 viscosity + complies with the VW 505.01 spec. The Castrol Magnatec Professional B4 OE 5W-40 is the only one that complies to this on paper, but I'm looking for something more superior. This OE oil is available only in the VW/Skoda/Audi service stations.

But, from comparisons with others, the Castrol Edge Titanium 5W-40 seems to be just a step ahead of the OE oil by exceeding the graph coverage of the VW 505.01 (though the Edge Ti doesn't claim to be VW 505.01 compliant).

In order below are the graphs of:
Mobil 0W-40
Mobil 5W-50
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40
Castrol Edge Titanium 0W-40
Castrol Edge Titanium 5W-40
Castrol Magnatec Professional B4 OE 5W-40
Attached Thumbnails
All about Diesel engine oils-mobil-0w40.png  

All about Diesel engine oils-mobil-5w50.png  

All about Diesel engine oils-shell-helix-ultra.png  

All about Diesel engine oils-castrol-edge-0w40.png  

All about Diesel engine oils-castrol-edge-5w40.png  

All about Diesel engine oils-castrol-magnatec-5w40.png  

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Old 12th December 2012, 22:43   #1061
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Maruti recomends Mobil 1 0W40 fully synthetic for the diesel swift now at their A.S.S.. I recently got the same in my swift ZDI in the third service.Cost is 3240 + tax. I want to know is it same ,better than the mobil1 Delvac. Is the 0W40 used for diesel as well??
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Old 13th December 2012, 10:15   #1062
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
Thanks, any location or dealer you would know in Mumbai from whom I can buy.
Try Jayeshbhai Vora 93 22 67 05 67. He arranges deliveries at your doorstep. I got Mobile Delvac 1 5w-40 for Rs. 700/ltr.
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Old 18th December 2012, 23:56   #1063
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post

On the topic of right oil for FIAT MJD engines, Got the oil changed at Ignite Garage and had a big discussion with Raghav on the topic who was recommending Shell Helix ultra as he mentioned that it is approved by Skoda for its diesels. I emailed him the below link which I got from Shell India website where it states that Shell Helix ultra as unsuitable for diesel and it recommends Shell Helix diesel ultra/ Shell helix ultra extra.

http://www-static.shell.com/static/p...tion_guide.pdf
If you compare the specifications and approval list for Shell Helix Diesel Ultra and Shell Helix Ultra, you'd find that both are identical.

If the Helix Diesel Ultra were to contain additional additives/detergent content for diesel engines, then shouldn't they have different values for viscosity, etc,

But the TDS of both are identical in terms of all the characteristics.

Helix Ultra TDS

Helix Diesel Ultra TDS

I think Helix Diesel Ultra is just a rebadged version for marketing reasons.

I think Shell Helix Ultra is ok for Fiat MJDs. Some of the specifications that Helix Ultra meets are ACEA B3/B4, VW 505.00 and Fiat 9.55535-Z2.

ACEA B3/B4 and VW 505.00 are diesel specifications.

Fiat 9.55535-Z2 means "High performance engine oil for turbocharged petrol and Diesel engines of large change intervals for Euro 5 engines"

Fiat MJDs need a Fiat 9.55535-N2 spec oil which is a turbocharged diesel engin for Euro 4 engines and I think the Z2 exceeds the spec of N2 in that aspect as the specs are backwards compatible.

I'd ignore the API CF spec because Punto MJD's owner's manual does not mention it.

In the UK and elsewhere, Mobil 1 also has a diesel specific variant called the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0w-40 which has the same identical specs as the Mobil 1 New Life 0w-40

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0w-40 TDS

Mobil 1 New Life 0w-40 TDS

If you look closely, both the Shell and Mobil1 oils have almost the same values for all the characteristics like viscosity, density, etc, though Mobil1 is a different grade (0w) than the Shell Helix Ultra (5w)

Sorry for the long post.

Last edited by donzerus : 19th December 2012 at 00:00.
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Old 21st December 2012, 12:59   #1064
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

I was chatting up with a friend who works with HPCL sales and also has been involved with their production department earlier. Firstly out of curiosity, i asked him is they have an Engine Oil product with 5w40 API-CH4 specs which i need for my Manza (more on this later.)

Then we got talking about different engine oils in the market Mobil/Castrol/Shell/Selena and so on. My interest was to really understand the differentiating factor which gives these brands an edge over one another from the performance perspective.

His answer was "No difference in performance, all are the same". I was taken back and requested for more details. He mentioned that all Engine Oil makes, say supporting 5w40 API-CH4 (the one under discussion) would have same performance characteristics across the brands and makes. The specs drive the viscosity/heat resistence,.. bla bla bla characteristics which need to be met for a given spec and hence would perform identically.

Hmm.. Makes sense.

Then what is the differentiating factor?
Answer: Branding, promotion, price and distribution.

Customer experience of one brand performing better over another is just the mental perception. Lots of rationalizing theories/model available for Customer Behavior that attribute this experience are already available for a read.

I am not an expert in Engine oils and it's constituents. I would like some opinions from experts in regards with above subject matter.

Now coming to the HP equivalent 5w40 API-CH4 for my Manza MJD engine, my friend mentioned that HPCL is launching an engine oil named "HP Neo Synth" (Costing ~ 1000/- for 5 litre)which would cater the passenger diesel segment and would be available in wide range of specs including the one mentioned above.

If somebody has already got hold of HP Neo Synth, please do share your experience.
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Old 21st December 2012, 18:39   #1065
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by donzerus View Post
I think Helix Diesel Ultra is just a rebadged version for marketing reasons...
I think Shell Helix Ultra is ok for Fiat MJDs. Sorry for the long post.
Thanks a lot for the clarification and timely. I have changed my car (QJD) to a new one but with the same heart (DDis), which is due for its first oil change. MSM Chennai uses only shell helix ultra and was worried whether it is indeed the right oil considering some earlier feedback in this forum that Shell is not good for MJD. My bro-in-law's and my friends experience with shell on FIAT MJD has been pretty good despite the higher cost than Delvac MX.
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