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Old 22nd October 2011, 15:56   #61
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
I am not happy with Safari / scorpio over pricing. Currently This is possible due to the duopoly between Tata and Mahindra in Indian SUV market. Third and fouth player with genuine product blended with feature rich technology will make buyers a SUV at affordable pricing. at 7L a decent SUV with ABS IS POSSIBLE in India.

A Toyota Prado TX -petrol is available in Kuwait for about 12L ex showroom. This is after shipping it from Japan to Kuwait and other costs.

In India manufacturers form syndicate and literally loot buyers.
You should compare the cost of an imported Prado X in India to be fair to all products concerned.

India has different needs. We want our home grown and settled foreign companies to employ as much of our workforce as possible while in return the companies receive tax benefits, land for lease and facilities for manufacture and export. Thus imports will be taxed heavily, including body panels from China and what not. Also just because one pays a higher tax does not mean the industry / the market should change to his/her needs alone. As my HR friend tells me, it is all normalized.

India is not oil rich Kuwait to be able to import everything and not worry about unemployment. We thrive with our hard working and intelligent workforce.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 16:18   #62
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Well I think Force One SUV is the real deal for people who want reliability from there chassis, engine and drive train.
Mahindra new suv may be good but I feel it is very gimmicky. Atleast we know Force One has a reliable engine and drivetrain and one of the best chassis in an Indian SUV.(refer Tempo Trax chassis which is overdone and can easily transport 15-20 people).
But sadly in today's age people are more concerned about the addons rather than the actual machine.SAD BUT TRUE.
I bet Force One will outperform Mahindra XUV in the long run reliability...over and out.

Note from Team-Bhp Support: Please avoid typing.......like.......this. Also type in full and proper English for the benefit of all forum members.

Last edited by Amartya : 22nd October 2011 at 21:39. Reason: Note left inline. Cheers.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 21:07   #63
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Pratham Force, the sole dealer in Pune, claims to have done 14 bookings of the vehicle since its launch. They have a single TD vehicle for the whole of the city of Pune - a city which is the Force Motors HQ.
They have managed to screw up the launch for sure. Now only time will tell how do they manage to come out of this tricky situation. You should be happy that Pune has one showroom. Could you imagine the entire Kerala state has only 2 showrooms for 14 districts? Not even Trivandrum, which is the state capital has one as per the website dealer list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
With just space and its licensed Merc angle as its prime USP, this is one vehicle that is not going anywhere in a hurry, notwithstanding even its very conservative 4000 unit first year forecast.
I guess they should have brought the base version without safety features at less than 10L ex showroom. Its foolishness to introduce some car without ABS at more than 10L, especially when there is NO brand value associated with the manufacturer & when we have proven products in the segment.

A price correction is the only way to get out of this mess is what I feel. They could try bringing in the fully loaded version [4x4 with safety package] at the current prices and things might improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
In India manufacturers form syndicate and literally loot buyers.
Why would you blame the manufacturers, if the buyers let them exploit the situation? This simply boils down to "making hay while sun shines", which I believe is the basic rule in any business venture. If the buyers are choosy & are value conscious, manufacturers will not take them for granted.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 22nd October 2011 at 21:08.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 21:47   #64
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

It will be interesting to see how the taxi market responds to this vehicle.

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Old 22nd October 2011, 22:00   #65
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Looking forward to the 4WD/ AWD version. IMO an autobox is not in the consideration. And rear drum brakes ? Come on.
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Old 22nd October 2011, 23:05   #66
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Seriously what was Force Motors thinking with advertisements! Come on, you need to have ads ready with the launch, not start shooting them after months of launch. There was some coverage for a day in news channels and some in print media but that was just about it. We are discussing about the vehicle here because in each of us there is an auto enthusiast, otherwise I don't think that many would be knowing that such a vehicle exists! Unfortunately days of spreading news by word of mouth doesn't quite work these days

Last edited by Eddy : 24th October 2011 at 15:57. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 22nd October 2011, 23:48   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious
They have managed to screw up the launch for sure. Now only time will tell how do they manage to come out of this tricky situation. You should be happy that Pune has one showroom. Could you imagine the entire Kerala state has only 2 showrooms for 14 districts? Not even Trivandrum, which is the state capital has one as per the website dealer list.
They just have 1 dealer for the whole of Karnataka. In fact that dealership is nearer to Hosur,TN than Bangalore.

Looks like they are very complacent when it comes to Ads, dealers, etc. Is there any other reason (production constraints, incomplete testing etc. ) for this ? OR are they targetting the taxi segment first with word-of-mouth strategy ( through existing & prospective Traveller customers) ?

Last edited by andromeda : 22nd October 2011 at 23:50.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 09:28   #68
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by ashroy_6 View Post
Well I think Force One SUV is the real deal for people who want reliability from there chassis, engine and drive train.
Mahindra new suv may be good but I feel it is very gimmicky. Atleast we know Force One has a reliable engine and drivetrain...
Many of the electronics gadgets can be quirky. However TCS and ESP are value additions, not gimmicks. The Aria also has them and it is a well regarded vehicle.

I am curious to know what makes you think that Mahindra's engine and chassis are not reliable.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 11:45   #69
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
That's why the Trax has an uncanny resemblance with the Mercedes G-Wagen. And that's why the Gurkha has been one of the most fabulous off-roaders this side of 20 Lacs. Only reasons they missed with the Gurkha was - Interior quality AND the car had just 2 doors. SUV in a coupe style is still not popular in India (most of the evoques booked are 5 door).
@samyakmodi: i used to believe in this Gurkha myth until I saw it's performance against the CJ3Bs, MM540s, and now Thar. If you hang around in the off-road scene long enough, you will understand the limitations of the Gurkha. On road, I may prefer a Gurkha, but off-road, i would any day prefer to be in a CJ or MM.

How many doors does the Thar have? 2 Doors, No hard Top, No AC and it's selling pretty well. Gurkha lost an opportunity to target the Thar market as well.


@ Skyline GTR : The 2.2 mhawk and 2.2 Safari VVTI share the same block with different fuel injection, timing and head. The Scorpio 2.6 CRDe was basically an AVL version of the tractor engine. The 2.2 is developed from scratch and has no similarity with the old International derived engines.

The force motors engine maybe merc derived, but given that it is about 3 generations old, it doesn't offer a huge advantage over the Scorpio mhawk or Safari 2.2 VVTi engine. I hate a lot of things about my Scorpio, but the engine is definitely the best part of the vehicle..

If you ask me the only USP that Force 1 has over the XUV is for someone like me who wants a true body on frame SUV with 7 seats and luggage space. The nearest competition to that will be the Fortuner which is priced double the F1 from a company that has multiple times the brand recognition of Force.

Tell Mr. Firodia, the only way he will stay in the game is to offer this thing with ABS/Air Bags (with optional 4WD) for about 10 Lakhs.

I would also suggest to him not to open the rest of the cartons from China so that they can be send back for a refund.

Last edited by GTO : 25th October 2011 at 16:16. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 23rd October 2011, 13:13   #70
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
...to go through the thread ...
Would like to know what's your take on the below statement on the Merc engine used in Force One. I guess I had read it previosuly also that this is an engine which Merc NO longer uses or so. Do you have any idea what's the life of this engine without an overhaul or a major repair? I dont really care how old or new the tech is used in this, but how will it fare in the long run!

For a person like me, Force One makes more sense over the XUV 500, prices not considered. But even then, XUV 500 has more brand value or trust factor as a company which attracts more customers towards it. As I said, one of the major reasons why I would stay away from the Force One is because I don't know the reliability of the engine or mechanicals and the long term reliability though I am convinced this is equally or better comfortable and DEFINITELY has more space on offer.

Such discussions with facts pitted against facts will bring in more value for readers like me who stand to gain a whole lot.

Note:: Am not so sure whether you could do it, but if you could bring this thread & discussions to the Force's management [could be easier since you are an employee], there could be improvements that they could make to the Force 1 or the new cars to come from their stable. Also this will let them know how people perceive their brand & what can they improve for much better sales conversions. As customers, we also benefit if they take some positive steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
The force motors engine maybe merc derived, but given that it is about 3 generations old, it doesn't offer a huge advantage over the Scorpio mhawk or Safari 2.2 VVTi engine.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd October 2011 at 13:23.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 19:26   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R

All of the above are my personal views.
I support your views too, from personal experience. I own a Gurkha, and have extensively driven various Mahindra vehicles in the past. The OM616 based TD2650FTI is a wonderful engine. In spite of not being a CRDE, it has a very good power and torque delivery. Best part, the engine and mechanicals seem to be very reliable and over engineered.
If even a part of this has been carried over to the Force One, with better interiors and ergonomics, it should be a great vehicle to have.
But, they need to correct their pricing. They made the same mistake with Gurkha and they repeated the same with this.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 19:33   #72
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
s.

In India manufacturers form syndicate and literally loot buyers.
Don't blame just the manufacturer - In India we pay nearly 50% of the cost of the car as taxes. I assume that UAE does not impose so much compared to India
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Old 23rd October 2011, 21:00   #73
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

@skyline:

You seem to be upset about team-bhpians critizing the fore one?

What gave you the impression that mhawk 2.2 and Safari 2.2 are Tractor engines developed by AVL?
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Old 24th October 2011, 01:45   #74
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

So are you people suggesting just onething - that is at this price the force one should have offered abs and all?

Well to be honest I feel we as buyers would find any excuse to condemn a brand. I personally feel that the force one has been priced just right. Maybe they should come up with a variant which offers all that what we need maybe at a 5% hike in the price. Got no clue how many of us would actually end up buying it.

Another thing I noticed was that we all expect the force's management to listen to us. I'm sure few of us are well connected to make it happen.

All in all - I will again say this - I was quiet surprised at the price they launched the vehicle at considering the space and the gizmos this car is providing. Honestly an Rs. 11 lac scorpio offer far lesser space.

Anyway - this is what I feel. Maybe wrong but I'm sure noone wants to judge me on that.
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Old 24th October 2011, 09:25   #75
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Force One is nearly 13L on road in Chennai.

I visited their only showroom in Chennai yesterday. They had a chassis and a display car(7 seater). Their TD vehicle was not available.

My dad's opinion:
He felt it offered incredible space in all the rows. The seats were comfortable and high enough. We are talking business class space here. However he was not sure about the credibility of the product or the company with respect to this product in the long run. Too big for some of the streets in Chennai. (He wants the Yeti)

My opinion:
Excellent space. The seats creaked when you pushed your back into it. The arm rest hinges were openly visible. The dashboard, the panels, the steering wheel, the seat adjustment knobs and seat leather were below par at fit and finish for a 13 Lakh car. I was disappointed. I was hoping to get a TD to allow the car to redeem itself but in vain. From the outside the car had an imposing stance. Its huge. The rear seats lacked seat comfort, head rest and not worth for seating anyone you care for. The SA said it has something as good as ABS and that it doesn't need air bags as the steering wheel is collapsible. That the steering cover compound is soft and no harm will come to my chest. Right...

I see where the customer base is: the rugged loving, suburban/town residing, wanting to stand out and needing to commute over no-road and highway conditions equally customer.

Will I book the Force One? No. Will I recommend it to anyone? Not if they plan to seat me in the third row on their drives. Otherwise if they belong to the niche customer base I described above, sure why not. The Force One with its simpler features and rugged build is better suited for the rural areas than the sophisticated XUV. The former has loads of space for carrying the crowbars, rice bags, new wheel for the tractor, coconuts and whatnot while still getting envious looks from your 100 acres-and-a-Safari owning neighbor.

Last edited by SedatedDrive : 24th October 2011 at 09:29.
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