[navin]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

You see, the German word for it is "Parkhaus"

It is rather simple if you understand the way German think. A House to Park your vehicle (motorbike, car, van...). A place (aka "lot") to park your vehicle. is hence Park Platz.

An Autohaus would mean a place to park cars (autos) only such as a car dealership woould read as "AutoHaus Mercedez Benz".

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

After looking at the pics of Croatia, no one will agree that this is the part of country which has history of war and hatred during last decade.

Actually Croatia was still just as pretty (if less touristy) very soon after the war (1995).

Originally Posted by mathranik

had shortlisted a roadtrip through New Zealand or a cruise to Alaska (We put up in US).
Is Croatia an all-season place? I saw the ski slopes, and presume it snows heavily enough - but what becomes of these lakes? Frozen? Do they lose their beauty in late winters? What do you suggest?

Options you should consider.
1. Alaska - go there before the glaciers are all gone - go via the inside passage and glacier bay.
2. Manchi Pichu - another place that is becoming overwhelmed by tourisits.
3. Canberra, Australia - it is hot air ballooning season there in March.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by navin

It is rather simple if you understand the way German think. A House to Park your vehicle (motorbike, car, van...). A place (aka "lot") to park your vehicle. is hence Park Platz.

An Autohaus would mean a place to park cars (autos) only such as a car dealership woould read as "AutoHaus Mercedez Benz".
.

Correct. German is logical to a point of frustration.

A nostril is a nose-hole, a nipple is a breast-wart, a glove is a hand-shoe, a big shop is a buy-house (Kaufhaus). Every noun is a capital and everything has a gender. You can join all words as a hyphen is a waste of time.

And that's the whole language sorted out.


Navin, you are correct on Parkplatz. However only a Parkhaus is for parking. An Autohaus is always a car dealership or such.

[Thad E Ginathom]

a nipple is a breast-wart

Oh, how I regret the smiley limit! I could fill a post with smillies for that one!

It is rather simple if you understand the way German think

I think he has had an intensive course!

[emkay456]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Correct. German is logical to a point of frustration.

Every noun is a capital and everything has a gender. You can join all words as a hyphen is a waste of time.

For the same reason, Germans have known to have shown interest in understanding Sanskrit (more than we Indians) !!

[Xinger]

Mark Twain (now there was a wordsmith to rival Sam himself ) had a lot to say about the vagaries of the German language.

Excerpts:

Surely there is not another language that is so slipshod and systemless, and so slippery and elusive to the grasp. One is washed about in it, hither and thither, in the most helpless way; and when at last he thinks he has captured a rule which offers firm ground to take a rest on amid the general rage and turmoil of the ten parts of speech, he turns over the page and reads, "Let the pupil make careful note of the following exceptions." He runs his eye down and finds that there are more exceptions to the rule than instances of it.

On Germanic parentheses:

There are ten parts of speech, and they are all troublesome. An average sentence, in a German newspaper, is a sublime and impressive curiosity; it occupies a quarter of a column; it contains all the ten parts of speech -- not in regular order, but mixed; it is built mainly of compound words constructed by the writer on the spot, and not to be found in any dictionary -- six or seven words compacted into one, without joint or seam -- that is, without hyphens; it treats of fourteen or fifteen different subjects, each inclosed in a parenthesis of its own, with here and there extra parentheses which reinclose three or four of the minor parentheses, making pens within pens: finally, all the parentheses and reparentheses are massed together between a couple of king-parentheses, one of which is placed in the first line of the majestic sentence and the other in the middle of the last line of it -- after which comes the VERB, and you find out for the first time what the man has been talking about; and after the verb -- merely by way of ornament, as far as I can make out -- the writer shovels in "haben sind gewesen gehabt haben geworden sein," or words to that effect, and the monument is finished. German books are easy to read when you hold them before the looking-glass or stand on your head -- so as to reverse the construction.

Now here is a sentence from a popular and excellent German novel -- which a slight parenthesis in it. I will make a perfectly literal translation, and throw in the parenthesis-marks and some hyphens for the assistance of the reader -- though in the original there are no parenthesis-marks or hyphens, and the reader is left to flounder through to the remote verb the best way he can:

"But when he, upon the street, the (in-satin-and-silk-covered-now-very-unconstrained-after-the-newest-fashioned-dressed) government counselor's wife met,"

(Wenn er aber auf der Strasse der in Sammt und Seide gehüllten jetzt sehr ungenirt nach der neusten Mode gekleideten Regierungsräthin begegnet.)

A writer's ideas must be a good deal confused, a good deal out of line and sequence, when he starts out to say that a man met a counselor's wife in the street, and then right in the midst of this so simple undertaking halts these approaching people and makes them stand still until he jots down an inventory of the woman's dress. That is manifestly absurd. It reminds a person of those dentists who secure your instant and breathless interest in a tooth by taking a grip on it with the forceps, and then stand there and drawl through a tedious anecdote before they give the dreaded jerk. Parentheses in literature and dentistry are in bad taste.

The Germans have another kind of parenthesis, which they make by splitting a verb in two and putting half of it at the beginning of an exciting chapter and the other half at the end of it. These things are called "separable verbs." The German grammar is blistered all over with separable verbs; and the wider the two portions of one of them are spread apart, the better the author of the crime is pleased with his performance. A favorite one is reiste ab -- which means departed. Here is an example which I culled from a novel and reduced to English:

"The trunks being now ready, he DE- after kissing his mother and sisters, and once more pressing to his bosom his adored Gretchen, who, dressed in simple white muslin, with a single tuberose in the ample folds of her rich brown hair, had tottered feebly down the stairs, still pale from the terror and excitement of the past evening, but longing to lay her poor aching head yet once again upon the breast of him whom she loved more dearly than life itself, PARTED."

On SEX (the grammatical kind!):

Every noun has a gender, and there is no sense or system in the distribution; so the gender of each must be learned separately and by heart. There is no other way. To do this one has to have a memory like a memorandum-book. In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl. See how it looks in print -- I translate this from a conversation in one of the best of the German Sunday-school books:

"Gretchen: Wilhelm, where is the turnip?
Wilhelm: She has gone to the kitchen.
Gretchen: Where is the accomplished and beautiful German maiden?
Wilhelm: It has gone to Croatia."

To continue with the German genders: a tree is male, its buds are female, its leaves are neuter; horses are sexless, dogs are male, cats are female -- tomcats included, of course; a person's mouth, neck, bosom, elbows, fingers, nails, feet, and body are of the male sex, and his head is male or neuter according to the word selected to signify it, and not according to the sex of the individual who wears it -- for in Germany all the women either have male heads or sexless ones; a person's nose, lips, shoulders, breast, hands, and toes are of the female sex; and his hair, ears, eyes, chin, legs, knees, heart, and conscience haven't any sex at all.

Now, by the above dissection, the reader will see that in Germany a man may think he is a man, but when he comes to look into the matter closely, he is bound to have his doubts; he finds that in sober truth he is a most ridiculous mixture; and if he ends by trying to comfort himself with the thought that he can at least depend on a third of this mess as being manly and masculine, the humiliating second thought will quickly remind him that in this respect he is no better off than any woman or cow in the land.

In the German it is true that by some oversight of the inventor of the language, a Woman is a female; but a Wife (Weib) is not -- which is unfortunate. A Wife, here, has no sex; she is neuter; so, according to the grammar, a fish is he, his scales are she, but a fishwife is neither. To describe a wife as sexless may be called under-description; that is bad enough, but over-description is surely worse. A German speaks of an Englishman as the Engländer; to change the sex, he adds inn, and that stands for Englishwoman -- Engländerinn. That seems descriptive enough, but still it is not exact enough for a German; so he precedes the word with that article which indicates that the creature to follow is feminine, and writes it down thus: "die Engländerinn," -- which means "the she-Englishwoman." I consider that that person is over-described.

On the length of German words:

Some German words are so long that they have a perspective. Observe these examples:

Freundschaftsbezeigungen.
Dilettantenaufdringlichkeiten.
Stadtverordnetenversammlungen.

These things are not words, they are alphabetical processions.

Generalstaatsverordnetenversammlungen.
Alterthumswissenschaften.
Kinderbewahrungsanstalten.
Unabhaengigkeitserklaerungen.
Wiedererstellungbestrebungen.
Waffenstillstandsunterhandlungen.

They are compound words with the hyphens left out.

"Freundschaftsbezeigungen" seems to be "Friendship demonstrations," which is only a foolish and clumsy way of saying "demonstrations of friendship." "Unabhaengigkeitserklaerungen" seems to be "Independencedeclarations," which is no improvement upon "Declarations of Independence," so far as I can see. "Generalstaatsverordnetenversammlungen" seems to be "General-statesrepresentativesmeetings," as nearly as I can get at it -- a mere rhythmical, gushy euphuism for "meetings of the legislature," I judge.

I wish to submit the following local item, from a Mannheim journal, by way of illustration:

"In the daybeforeyesterdayshortlyaftereleveno'clock Night, the inthistownstandingtavern called `The Wagoner' was downburnt. When the fire to the onthedownburninghouseresting Stork's Nest reached, flew the parent Storks away. But when the bytheraging, firesurrounded Nest itself caught Fire, straightway plunged the quickreturning Mother-stork into the Flames and died, her Wings over her young ones outspread."

And finally:

Having pointed out, in detail, the several vices of this language, I now come to the brief and pleasant task of pointing out its virtues. The capitalizing of the nouns I have already mentioned. But far before this virtue stands another -- that of spelling a word according to the sound of it. After one short lesson in the alphabet, the student can tell how any German word is pronounced without having to ask; whereas in our language if a student should inquire of us, "What does B, O, W, spell?" we should be obliged to reply, "Nobody can tell what it spells when you set if off by itself; you can only tell by referring to the context and finding out what it signifies -- whether it is a thing to shoot arrows with, or a nod of one's head, or the forward end of a boat."

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DISCLAIMER: All of Jenny's curses and lawsuits may please be directed to The Estate of Mark Twain

[shipnil]

Originally Posted by Xinger

[b]


On the length of German words:

Ohh! now I understand why google translate sometimes used to give me incomprehensible german to english translations. I then had to break the word somewhere (using some sense) and try to see if the paragraph made some sense. Or repeat the step again and again

[sarmarishi]

This thread is turning rather interesting I am loving it. And Thanks Sam for putting Plitsvice as one of the places to visit right on top with Africa and Cambodia.

And I must say that of all the countries I have travelled to so far in Europe, I loved Germany the best esp the Black forest region and my stay along the River Rhine. Absolutely beautiful!

[Sam Kapasi]

Nice to see so many Croatia/ Plitvice fans here

Here's the video from Plitvice

YouTube - plitvice

[SafeDrive]

Sam, are the falls like this all year round? In India we normally have a good fall only during or immediately after the monsoon. I'm guessing that these falls are fed more from melting ice during the summer than rains.

And finally I see some more people. I know you mentioned that the lake is off limits to humans but does that include just wetting one's feet (dirty Indian mind at work).

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here but did you also see Maquis? Read about this in Asterix in Corsica .

And man oh man this place is beautiful. You and Jenny are really blessed.

[Sam Kapasi]

I cannot stop my fingers from taking a few more pictures as we say goodbye to Plitvice.





















It has now been about 7 hours in the lake region and we have walked almost non-stop. As we climb the hill towards the end of the day, the tiredness begins to set in.

We have walked about 30 kms today. We say our goodbyes to the lakes of Plitvice, one of the most beautiful places we have seen.

We spend the evening at a local specialty restaurant and quickly come to the conclusion that we really do not like Croatian food, lol.

Time to leave Plitvice. While I do want to see Split in Croatia, it will get difficult to keep driving further south of Europe, especially considering that we must then drive all the way back to Frankfurt/Bad Nauheim when this holiday is over.

Over? Can it be that these divine days will end? The thought of it makes me shudder and I quickly push it away.

We spend the evening with our book "The rough guide to Croatia" - a book I purchased at New Delhi Airport earlier. After some discussions and thoughts it is decided.

Tomorrow we will go to the island of Rab.

[Sam Kapasi]

Usually I do not write a post on my initial impressions of a country and it is usually for 2 reasons.

1) I am not qualified to offer an opinion on a country and its people. And even if I was, who cares what my impression is?

2) It would be silly to offer an impression on a country of which a million impressions have been formed without my assistance.


Croatia however, remains virtually unknown, on Team-BHP. I would say except for a couple of members, nobody has really been there. So I offer you a post with my initial impressions and casual information on the land.


Croatia is referred to as Hrvatska within the country. Just like Germany is referred to as Deutschland within their country. As most of you already know, Croatia was part of the now disbanded Yugoslavia.

The country has a lot of coastline and many small islands that surround the rather oddly shaped mainland. Its neighbours are Slovenia and Bosnia/Herzigova also erstwhile Yugoslavia. If you would like more political information, you can probably find it on wikipedia or similar.

The famous places of Croatia are of course its capital Zagreb and another famous port down south called Dubrovnik. That doesn’t mean that the other places are not famous or infamous, it merely means that these are destinations one can reach from an international port of travel.

While I have not seen Zagreb this trip, I was told by my extended family (who had been to Zagreb earlier in the year) that it was a city worth seeing, full of life, culture, interesting and old architecture, loads of young people and lots of shopping. We did simply not visit Zagreb as we were not in the mood to visit any city, no matter how beautiful it was.


Later when we did visit some cities in Slovenia and Croatia, we didn’t stay there. But I’m rambling.


Dubrovnik is down south of Croatia and a splendid place to visit if the blue sea and the coastline is all you wish to explore. In both cases, I am pretty sure there are no direct flights from India. But I’m also pretty sure that most major European airlines will fly to Zagreb.

Even though all of Croatia is not connected with Autobahns, the roads, twisty as they may be, are beautiful, clean and totally enjoyable. Apart from cars, Croatia is definitely bikers paradise. In my entire life I have not seen as many Harleys as I did during my stay in Croatia and Slovenia.
Of course there are campers/motorhomes galore and often Jenny and I regret not having rented a camper for this trip.

More about campers later.

As a rule of thumb, Croatia is an incredibly clean country. I was able to sense this both on the streets and in the towns but also in the homes. Their overall sense of hygiene often surpasses the cleanliness one sees in western Europe. For me this is surprising.

Croatians are nice people, though at times it may not seem so. Their language is extremely difficult and often sounds like Russian, but is not so. The “R” is always rolled and harsh and therefore has its own pronunciation. Therefore it is not unusual to see Croatian cities with a consonant followed by an R, something that can only be done with certain letters in English like T and C (trap, crap etc)

But for example, there is a Croatian island called Krk. Correctly pronouned, you simply make the sound that happens when you sit down in a pair of trousers that are simply too tight for your derriere and it splits. So you have an island in Croatia called Split and another called Krk.

Hmmm...

English is not widely spoken. The number of English-speaking tourist are few in Croatia, but there are many tourists from the German speaking countries such as Germany, Austria etc. As a result, most tourist-based businesses are actually able to speak German, but very little English.

In and around the land, cheap accommodation can be found quite easily, as most family houses have a room (or a couple) that they are happy to rent out. Every third house has a large sign saying “Sobe” (meaning rooms in Croatian) or “Zimmer” (meaning room in German) and these places are usually wonderful, homely and very very clean and hospitable. I see no reason for anyone to look for a hotel in these areas, sometimes a simple internet recommendation is sufficient.

The food was a bit difficult for both of us. Funnily, everywhere in Croatia you get pizza. Thankfully not the pizza you get at Dominos, this American hunk of bread smothered in cheese, but real pizza. Wood-fired or oven baked, thin and crispy and quite delicious. For the first few times at least.
Croatian food was a bit well, bland for me. Now don’t laugh, yes I like my Chicken do-piaza, but I am quite comfortable eating in Germany or Italy too. (well, I’m more comfortable in Italy to be perfectly honest, but don’t tell anyone shhh) – but Croatian food is remarkably bland. Which in this case means quite tasteless. They do have some local specialties (I was fortunate enough to try lamb roasted under the bell) and both Jenny and I came to the quick conclusion that is was not to our taste.

By the 3rd day we had pizza coming out of our ears.

Breakfast was quite simple (by Indian standards) and usually comprised of bread (Always white bread in Croatia, not very nice), cheese and jam. Possibly some cold cuts, sometimes too salty.

The country is beautiful (as you have seen from my photos already, I’ll bet) – the northern islands are pretty and unusual (as you will see) and the southern islands are party and chillout paradise (Split, Dubrovnik etc)

I’m done for now, back to my story.

[Sam Kapasi]

It was a split second decision to visit the island of Rab. A beautiful blue-sea island, a medieval town on an isolated island accessible only by ferry. It sounded perfect.

While the name did seem familiar to me, it was only later, when we returned back to India that it occurred (with a little help from the internet) where I had heard of the isle before. The isle of Rab was a site for the Italian Concentration camps in WWII and the area of Kampor (which we shall visit shortly) was the hub for one of the largest anti-semitic concentration camps in Europe.

Funnily enough, there was no mention of any of this while we were on the island and we were completely oblivious to this historical fact.

SO!

In order to get to the isle of Rab we have multiple options. We decide to take the longer route with the slightly broader road.

We are to drive from Plitvice to Otočac (Croatian pronunciation hint: č is a "CH" and a croatian c is always pronounced as a "TS" and therefor Otočac is OH-TOH-CHATS)From here we will drive up to the coatal town of Senj (Croatian pronounciation hint, a J is always a "Y" hence this is well Sen-ye (but you cannot even hear the Ye, so one simply says Sen)





And then drive along the beautiful coast (stunning, as you will see) to a place called Jablanac (So now put together my previous rules and you have YA-BLAH-NATS) - be careful because if you ask for Jablanac (prounounced with a J and ending in a K) all you will receive is blank stare.

So at Jablanac, we will find a ferry that will take our car to the Isle of Rab (Island = Otok, ergo Otok Rab) and then we will drive. To somewhere and live somewhere on the island.

Easy, peasy. Japaneasy.

[isldhn]

Hi Sam, I know this is as late as my filing work in office but, CONGRATULATIONS.
Hope you have a B.E.A.Utiful and satisfied married life ahead.

OT: Did you hear about this : Oktoberfest.de - Hotels, Tickets, Beer - everything about the world's biggest fair | Oktoberfest.de - The Oktoberfest Website.
Looks like fun. I really hope to see you and Jenny in those traditional Bavarian dresses having fun.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by isldhn

Looks like fun. I really hope to see you and Jenny in those traditional Bavarian dresses having fun.

Actually it is really funny you should bring this up right now.

Jenny and I and our German friends will be celebrating the Oktoberfest right here in India, in Mumbai to be precise, organised by the German consulate and the Indo-German chamber.

And we will be dressed in traditional bavarian style. Sam in Lederhosen and Jenny in a Dirndl.

I am not so sure if you will see photos on Team-BHP as the Oktoberfest is essentially a beer festival and alcohol-discussion or photos are strictly a no-no on TBHP.

[Sam Kapasi]

We leave in the morning, early but no pressure. It is about 9am when we're on the road.
The sun is still up and it shines on us, smiling on us as we complain to each other how our legs hurt from all that walking we did yesterday. Oh we both enjoy walking we do, but 30 kms is quite a bit. Hopefully we will not be walking a lot today.

But now, we drive. It is about 16 degrees the weather is good enough to leave the sunroof open.

It takes about an hour to Otočac, past beautiful villages with unpronounceable names and beautiful houses. Each one with beautiful flowers (mostly Geranium) at their windows. It is indeed the culture here.





We see forgotten ski slopes, filled with bright sunshine instead of snow. This must be a beautiful winter destination.



Once we reach Otočac, which seems to be the reasonably big twn around these parts, we decide to stop for a coffee at the local cafe bar.

No English.
Deutsch?
She smiles. Ja ein bisschen

I stare in mock anger at Jenny.
It's unbelievable! I travel all across Europe to a place where we are both tourists and yet I am dependent on you for language!
She laughs.



One coffee later (interestingly, almost all Caffe-bars in Croatia have NO food, not even snacks. Simply lots of cafe and drinks and that's that. Even more interestingly, it is perfectly acceptable for you to bring a little food with you!) we're off to Senj.
On the way we stop at a small settlement and buy some farm-made cheese, honey and other good stuff.



On the way we see an man waving his thumb for a lift. He must be in his 50's, but a little weather-worn. I brake.

He peers in. Senj?
Ja, Senj say I smiling.
He gets in with a gruff thank-you and settles himself in the backseat as we drive off.
Are you from here? Asks jenny smiling brightly.
No, I tourist.
Really? From where?
From Serbia.
Well, that's not so far away I say laughing and driving.
Where you from?
India and Germany.

We talk a little about culture, language, people and he does his best with his broken English.
I stay here 2 months. I go Senj for bath.
Bath?
Bath swimming.
Ah, comprehension.

Do you have a lot of snow here?
Snow?
Jenny makes little hand signs showing snow falling. Falling on the ground from the sky.
Ah snake!
No not snakes. She's laughing her "don't be ridiculous" laugh. Not snakes. Snow. White snow. Weiss...
Yes snake.
No not snake and she makes wavy curvy slithery hands. This is a snake.
Yes he relies, eyes twinkling. In our language this white and he makes snowfall from the sky and one can tell he understands is called Sneg.

Sneg! haha. We thought Snake.

I love hitch-hikers. Every hitch-hiker opens a little window in my world. Nobody is as free as a hitch-hiker is.

Time passes as we drive. It isn't long before we're looking for parking at Senj.

Would you look at that?

Senj is a little coastal town and not very pretty in comparision to the towns we have seen so far. But the first coastal town.







And the coast is stunning. Just imagine that the whole sea is as blue and as clear as Plitvice. This is truly unbelievable.




What a beautiful place! And we're just passing through.


Please note that there is no colour correction or enhancement using photoshop.

Want some khana?
Yeah I'm hungry.

We park, find a little restaurant and get something to eat as we sit there, taking it all in.