[vinod_nookala]

Jack 33,
Iam in love with your standard MM540 4wd. Maintained well.:-) During a recent off road trip i realised how effortless was MM540 compared to heavier LC70 & 80. LC's were very good for thier size but this was RAW! For example 2.1 litre engine had more grunt in 4wd low II gear compared to 4.2 litre N.A LC70. LC was faster in IInd gear making vehicle bounce over rocks, 1st gear was too low giving it a wheel spin. Refinement & handling inspired me but MM540 was slightly better due to its size and low gearing.

[Samurai]

EL, we really need to move on. Let's not keep going back to the old argument. Focus on technical differences and not on which one can do what. For example, qualified statements like Vinod's just above is more welcome.

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by jack33

hi arka,do you have a differential lock fitted? Probably with them I can get out from most of the stuck situations.It's raining there and the hills are too slippery for even my vibram soles.Hey arka,any plans for a Munnar trip, I will be happy to offer you my 540 and some great tracts!!!

Hi Jack!!!!

I don't have differential locks. But I have fitted Auburn Gear Limited Slip Differentials on the front and rear differentials.

The LSD are very effective in muddy and slippery conditions.

I will be happy to drive up MM540 for any Munnar Off-Road event.

Regards,

Arka

[headers]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

To believe that most of the members who have vehemently opposed Arka's 'sweeping statements' have 'true' off roading experiences with the modern machines that they are boasting about would be a total misunderstanding.

I can also sit here & talk about the the TLC which gave us so much comfort yesterday while offroading. But do I actually have the experience of owning one or using one off road that many times in that many different terrains to make any comparisons with any of these 'cheap' MMs ? NO.

Yeah, there were 2 TLCs yesterday & both did very very well. They had excellent & willing drivers too. It would have been a very comfortable offroading experience. But the MMs are great in their own way. They might look awkward in the rocky climbs, but do the same with minimum fuss. Please do some real offroading on both machines before making counters to 'sweeping statements'.

Guess John had a view of the same terrain from two different angles yesterday, i suppose.

Agreed, we could'nt even hear the engines roar in both the TLCs..while the 540 growled her heart out. But also, inspite of a weaker, lower bhp powered engine,the 540s were good in their own simple way.

There were 4 540s yesterday - Arkas [2.5 D], mine [2.1D], Vinod_nookala[2.1D] and Sanjay [2.1D] All the 540s performed with minimum fuss until i came downhill carrying 8 people. I had busted my fuel line banjo..yes banjo i guess and had diesel leaking until we got it sorted out.

The best part was the sheer low speed driveability of the 540 while coming downhill in 3 LOW crawling over the rocks. It gave one so much confidence in these machinery!

Having said that, both the TLCs had no problems whatsoever and the only 540 that gave some trouble was mine cos of misuse and overload!

The event was great fun! My dear friend Sharat aka Samurai was missed! Ofcourse our esteemed Nitrous too could not make it due to some official reasons.

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Jack!!!!

I will be happy to drive up MM540 for any Munnar Off-Road event.

Arka, am game too! freeze on the dates!

[shankar.balan]

IMO also the much lesser weight of the MM vis a vis the LC would be a positive factor, especially in extremely slushy conditions.

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Jack 33,
Iam in love with your standard MM540 4wd. Maintained well.:-) During a recent off road trip i realised how effortless was MM540 compared to heavier LC70 & 80. LC's were very good for thier size but this was RAW! For example 2.1 litre engine had more grunt in 4wd low II gear compared to 4.2 litre N.A LC70. LC was faster in IInd gear making vehicle bounce over rocks, 1st gear was too low giving it a wheel spin. Refinement & handling inspired me but MM540 was slightly better due to its size and low gearing.

[desertfox]

Thats life. After driving a Landcruiser and Landcruiser Prado off road for the last fifteen years in Dubai, its a very different feeling driving a Jeep cj3b on our NIOC OTR trips these days. Its so different, but its fun.

[rhandle]

One of the posts which I read from start to Finish in one go!

I have met Arka once and am sure he has got good respect for all modern day machines. The problem here what I feel is he is not getting his match, a person who can take him head-on with knowledge, experience and technicalities.

If any one would prove it to him I am sure he would have taken it without any fuss, unfortunately everybody was depending upon Youtube.

I am sure Modern day off-roaders would be lot better than old timers but then everything is at a price. And the balance between all things is greatly required.

We al know how successful or "Seen" are the modern day offroaders in the OTRs conducted over here in India.

[SamtheLeo]

Hi Guys,

Being a newbie, I am sincerely not trying to come in between the discussion going on here & it really mesmerised, in face I came in this thread to watch pics but just kept on reading & reading. However I feel we all are missing a point here
Classic & Modern are two different eras & cant be compared. It is not about being Best or worst, not about being black & white also not being about right or wrong.
Classic was there because they had some extraordinary & modern are about technology which is advancing always. However these are shades of grey & some thing would be rated some where.
Can we compare a 350 cc Bullet with a new Pulsar 220cc
Can we compare a RX 100 with a 150cc imported sports bike.
I feel NO!!!! Each has its own class.

& thats what makes them so special & us their fans & thats what we all need to remind us. All of these are Best of Best which still intrests us

[headers]

Originally Posted by SamtheLeo

Can we compare a 350 cc Bullet with a new Pulsar 220cc
Can we compare a RX 100 with a 150cc imported sports bike.
I feel NO!!!! Each has its own class.

& thats what makes them so special & us their fans & thats what we all need to remind us. All of these are Best of Best which still intrests us

@samtheleo: the message is said Loud and Clear. Thank you.

[fazalaliadil]

Arka, DKG, Samurai, GTO and all,
8 pages of comparrisions and arguements, MM540 versus all 4WD's would have been a better title to this thread than it's present one.
True, MM540 is obsolete in today's 4WD evolution and is way way behind in nearly all aspects.
Economics.. are a big factor between owning a MM540 or a TLC, Prado, client's affordability has to be taken into consideration in the Indian market.
There is an urgent need for a new generation 4X4 in India and also exsist's a huge vacum.
Reason why likes of Mayapuri and army auctions thrive and the unending mechanical and cosmetic rebuilding, upgradations by guys like us on 10-20+ year old Jeeps.
"Give us an Indian, new generation 4X4" which is affordable, parts available, with service back up and customer support etc. (even without these services many still buy the imported 4X4's at 4-5 times the cost).
The era of offroading is in it's infancy stage in India, and we are only getting warmed up here.

Sky is the limit for the one who builds a NEW GENERATION 4X4 which has CRUISE, RALLY and OFF-ROADING capabilities.

[rhandle]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Sky is the limit for the one who builds a NEW GENERATION 4X4 which has CRUISE, RALLY and OFF-ROADING capabilities.

I doubt if possible in India. We all Desis would like to have a NEW GENERATION 4X4 which looks like a Humvee with capabilities of Unimog and comfort of G-wagen with FE of Civic Hybrid that too running on tap water and yes Most Importantly IT should be at Price of TATA NANO!

Now this vehicle would surely beat everything I guess...

Distinguished Bhpians, may I add my humble two bits.

I agree wadis and dune bashing are indeed nice OTR courses. But the fact of the matter is that the modern LCs of the world come with tons of power under the hood which helps in good road speeds, creature comforts and the works.

But In the Indian context, IMHO there can't be a better offroader than our archaic historic world war II jeeps and their indian successors.

Looking at things a little practically, wadis are very civil offroad haunts.They are not deceptive terrains. The dunes are nice, their terrain is predictable too.


After the OTR the vehicle will utmost need a water service and wax polishing. Only a stray rollover or so, especially if its a rookie

I am not sure if that would be the case if we brought these modern machines to offroad in India. There have been sporting gentlemen who did do. I am sure they will have a thing or two to tell about their post OTR resurrection efforts.

A jeep has a robust body that does not demand pampering and loves to get punished. Same with the suspension or engine or any other component that makes it a jeep. Failures happen. But thats when drivers overlook some basic dos & donts or fail to carry out their checks before the OTR.

And no matter what, offroading with a Mahindra jeep be only termed a slightly expensive proposition than that of a gully cricket team.

WHereas the modern masterpieces would cost only slightly cheaper than a CEO's monthly paycheck.

Last of all, I don't think anyone would floor the pedal to 100kmph on an offroad course. So the jeep doesnt need that top speed. And on road a good jeep and driver can get from point A to point B with as much ease as any other vehicle in the Indian road/traffic context.

Thanks and regards

[53BHP]

Being a newly minted Jeeper (1 day old) or mm540er, this is one of an interesting thread going. Some very strong sentiments too if I may add

So here's my view. This view is what led me to buying a MM540 here

1. We live in India
2. When looking I had the 80 series TLC, old Pajero, Defender 90 and such 4x4's in mind. All these are available here for between 7 and 9 lacs
3. A MM540 of similar vintage costs the same (just 1 zero less)
4. So with a stock 540 you get 80 per cent off road ability with 20% of the comfort. But by golly as GTO said it costs 5% of the price. So I bought a 540
5. While it is still possible to buy one of these older, more capable offroaders in india, what about the parts? Its a crick in the neck to get even the basic stuff. At Opera House they cost an arm and a leg. So you have to import on your own. Ask me, I got in a clutch rebuild kit for a Cherokee '96 belonging to the owner of an automobile company in India. It was lying in the workshop for 4 months as they looked here and there for it

So yes in summary:

I bought the MM because it is essentially the 2nd car, the boys toy, the weekend offroad ride

Would I have bought the more expensive machines if money was no object? Sure

Would I have bought a modern day TLC or RR Sport or Patrol if money was no object? Maybe. But I would still take my MM along to OTR's to tow my modern 4x4 home (God forbid some sensor goes or some electronics decide to go OTR or you have on run flats which run flat for 50km when the next run flat capable tyrewalla is 200km away)


guess who was pulling this defender out!!!!


Oh and lets not forget the sheer size of these new modern 4x4's. Case in point. On March 15 OTR, GTO's classic squeezed through a bunch of trees while ExtremeAllan's Defender 90 did not

Yes DKG. If the Wrangler was available in India officially, then that would be my 4x4 of choice. It would be cheaper than a luxo SUV, have 90% of the off road capability at 50% of the price (hopefully). Now thats a fair trade off. Till it comes in however, its the MM to sharpen my OTR skills on

Arka: In case you would like to take DKG's advise and treat yourself to a real Jeep, there's a nice Cherokee I could help you buy at a very reasonable price. It comes with a 4 liter gasoline engine though, so you would have to get yourself a petrol pump too

THE FACT IS THAT WE ARE IN INDIA. EVEN THE BEST OF THE BEST IMPORTED SUV'S ARE NOT TROPICALISED ENOUGH FOR HERE (VW TOUAREG, WINDOW WINDER GONE, 8K KMS DONE, 1 YEAR OLD CAR, DEALER ORDERED REPLACEMENT 3 MONTHS AGO.SUV ROTTING IN THE WORKSHOP.SHAME SHAME) YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE SERIOUSLY COURAGEOUS TO DO MUCH OFFROADING HERE

[Parm]

Originally Posted by 53BHP

Being a newly minted Jeeper (1 day old) or mm540er, this is one of an interesting thread going. Some very strong sentiments too if I may add

So here's my view. This view is what led me to buying a MM540 here

1. We live in India
2. When looking I had the 80 series TLC, old Pajero, Defender 90 and such 4x4's in mind. All these are available here for between 7 and 9 lacs
3. A MM540 of similar vintage costs the same (just 1 zero less)
4. So with a stock 540 you get 80 per cent off road ability with 20% of the comfort. But by golly as GTO said it costs 5% of the price. So I bought a 540
5. While it is still possible to buy one of these older, more capable offroaders in india, what about the parts? Its a crick in the neck to get even the basic stuff. At Opera House they cost an arm and a leg. So you have to import on your own. Ask me, I got in a clutch rebuild kit for a Cherokee '96 belonging to the owner of an automobile company in India. It was lying in the workshop for 4 months as they looked here and there for it

So yes in summary:

I bought the MM because it is essentially the 2nd car, the boys toy, the weekend offroad ride

Would I have bought the more expensive machines if money was no object? Sure

Would I have bought a modern day TLC or RR Sport or Patrol if money was no object? Maybe. But I would still take my MM along to OTR's to tow my modern 4x4 home (God forbid some sensor goes or some electronics decide to go OTR or you have on run flats which run flat for 50km when the next run flat capable tyrewalla is 200km away)

Attachment 172626
guess who was pulling this defender out!!!!


Oh and lets not forget the sheer size of these new modern 4x4's. Case in point. On March 15 OTR, GTO's classic squeezed through a bunch of trees while ExtremeAllan's Defender 90 did not

Yes DKG. If the Wrangler was available in India officially, then that would be my 4x4 of choice. It would be cheaper than a luxo SUV, have 90% of the off road capability at 50% of the price (hopefully). Now thats a fair trade off. Till it comes in however, its the MM to sharpen my OTR skills on

Arka: In case you would like to take DKG's advise and treat yourself to a real Jeep, there's a nice Cherokee I could help you buy at a very reasonable price. It comes with a 4 liter gasoline engine though, so you would have to get yourself a petrol pump too

THE FACT IS THAT WE ARE IN INDIA. EVEN THE BEST OF THE BEST IMPORTED SUV'S ARE NOT TROPICALISED ENOUGH FOR HERE (VW TOUAREG, WINDOW WINDER GONE, 8K KMS DONE, 1 YEAR OLD CAR, DEALER ORDERED REPLACEMENT 3 MONTHS AGO.SUV ROTTING IN THE WORKSHOP.SHAME SHAME) YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE SERIOUSLY COURAGEOUS TO DO MUCH OFFROADING HERE

+1 for all that you wrote.

we all would like to own a true modern 4x4/SUV like LC, RR, Wrangler, LR etc if money is not the issue and we get a petrol pump with it!

lets stick to MMs and MGs and enjoy boy's toys on weekends, cheap and cheerful Indian way!

[NIP]

Forget Land Cruisers and Range Rovers, parts for even the expensive SUVs here cost the sky. Can you imagine a new bumper or fender cost for Endevour or Fortuner !? Unless you are stinking rich, or even if you are, it just does not make sense to bash these on OTRs. I'm pretty sure a fender of an Endevour with painting would be 15-20% cost of buying a used (but good) MM540