Overheating problem in Jeep

Jaggu · 12th August 2008, 11:45

Get an assessment of the engine, if they say it needs a complete overhaul soon then maybe you can wait. On the other hand overall if engine is healthy, tend to the upper half if its being opened.

headers · 12th August 2008, 13:05

Dear Sharat Sir, you can drive the jeep as it is. There is no major issue with the overheating on an incline bit.

You basically have a low cost off road vehicle that can do obstacles that your GV might find tough to do without damage.

Hence, my sincere advise would be to keep the jeep as it is unless you want to keep spending money.

FYI, IMO, all radiators will gurgle on accelaration [this is noticed if the radiator cap is open and you happen to peep inside while increasing the accelarator] This is not a sign of compression leak [refer your post #84, pt 3]

And even if they do the compression test, ask them to do so in your presence.

Remember that most dealers try to milk whatever they can, even if not entirely required at that stage. I do understand that you have gone through a recommendation, but nevertheless, there is no harm in running your jeep as it is.

OT: Maybe thats why MM440 gave you a jerry can of water free along with your jeep so that you could get used to filling her up: LOL

Happy Jeeping!

DKG · 12th August 2008, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

They are doing a compression test today since I specifically requested it to assess the health of the engine.

If the engine doesn't measure up well on a compression test I'd recommend overhauling the entire engine and not just the head.

Samurai · 12th August 2008, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

Dear Sharat Sir, you can drive the jeep as it is. There is no major issue with the overheating on an incline bit.

Think again Headers. Today they opened the engine and found the engine head cracked.

Mohnish · 12th August 2008, 13:24

Post deleted by self on account problem found.

headers · 12th August 2008, 13:25

Samurai Sir, Is there any picture showing that? A cracked head?

Blue Thunder · 12th August 2008, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

Think again Headers. Today they opened the engine and found the engine head cracked.

oh, man, that sounds bad...how serious is the crack, Samurai ?

.

headers · 12th August 2008, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohnish

My thoughts exactly. I am still not convinced this is a genuine overheating 'problem'.

Yep, the water pump would churn the water in the system which could suck in a bit of air resulting in the bubbling. If its the head gasket, then the bubbling would be more like steam being forced through the water in the radiator, like natural hot springs

Its highly unlikely that you will get uniform compression in all the cylinders cause not all cylinders are gong to wear equally. What has to be measured is the difference between the cylinders, but then again, a blown head gasket could be one of the reasons, but then so could the rings if they were weak or the valve seats or cracked / warped head...The list is really endless. You would probably end up doing a complete top end job and still find the engine at the same temp and behaving the same if the problem is not there in the first place.

Identify, if you have a genuine overheating problem in the first place. Also, a blown head gasket would result in overheating even on normal driving, not just on uphills.

Sir, we seem to have similar thoughts. Thanks for sharing your views!

DKG · 12th August 2008, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

Today they opened the engine and found the engine head cracked.

Don't lose heart Samurai. Welcome to the world of old cars. This is on a car that drove. Imagine what we are up against on old junks that haven't run in 25 years!

Now have them do a full rebuild from scratch and go for a radiator of the correct spec while you are at it.

Samurai · 12th August 2008, 16:22

I visited the service center and this is what I saw.

Water pump (looks like my mechanic only checked for circulation)

Overheating problem in Jeep-p1000209.jpg

The head gasket, notice the red circle where it was leaking.

Overheating problem in Jeep-p1000211.jpg

Cracked head

Overheating problem in Jeep-p1000213.jpg

Overheating problem in Jeep-p1000215.jpg

Overheating problem in Jeep-p1000218.jpg

The engine block looks fine, the liners and pistons were ok. But the mechanics who had previously opened it used some non-standard bolts. So they made new wider grooves into the holes circled in red. What kind of nit-wits would do this to an engine.

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They have looked at welding the head at the machine shop. Since the head is aluminium, results won't be good. The new head costs 29K and they have it ready.

Spitfire · 12th August 2008, 16:25

So it requires a overhaul. All those looking for oil, why is it not there?

I do remember saying sometime back that the engine needs a overhaul, the last 10-15 posts point to the same. I was jumped on and asked to prove it....lol.

Dont lose heart, like i had said (even earlier) you should have contacted the previous owner when you started having the overheating issues.

khan_sultan · 12th August 2008, 16:36

Sharath, time for you to give Jammy a call.!!! he should be able to shed light if this crack is recent or had symptoms of crack from earlier days.

Also, he can explain about the non standard bolts being used.

Samurai · 12th August 2008, 16:37

The total bill for new head and water pump and installation and labour comes to 38-40K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Dont lose heart, like i had said (even earlier) you should have contacted the previous owner when you started having the overheating issues.

I talk to him on everyday basis, he was suspecting water pump, he is partially right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Sharath, time for you to give Jammy a call.!!! he should be able to shed light if this crack is recent or had symptoms of crack from earlier days.

He had the Jeep only for 5 months, the engine work predates his ownership.

khan_sultan · 12th August 2008, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

... He had the Jeep only for 5 months, the engine work predates his ownership.

Ohhh.. didn't know that part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

The total bill for new head and water pump and installation and labour comes to 38-40K.

So you changing the head or getting it welded for now?

sudev · 12th August 2008, 17:01

@Samurai: Pardon my ignorance. The crack is between water body and head bolts. How is that effecting the engine? Coolant will drip away but engine power/compression should remain intact.

An age old remedy in such cases was application of turmeric powder to fill up leakage cracks in Amby's and Willy's. 8-( And I have driven an Amby over the mountains coming back from Kashmir in such a patch repair job circa ~1975.

35K is steep.

12th August 2008, 11:45	#91
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	Get an assessment of the engine, if they say it needs a complete overhaul soon then maybe you can wait. On the other hand overall if engine is healthy, tend to the upper half if its being opened.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 13:05	#92
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	Dear Sharat Sir, you can drive the jeep as it is. There is no major issue with the overheating on an incline bit. You basically have a low cost off road vehicle that can do obstacles that your GV might find tough to do without damage. Hence, my sincere advise would be to keep the jeep as it is unless you want to keep spending money. FYI, IMO, all radiators will gurgle on accelaration [this is noticed if the radiator cap is open and you happen to peep inside while increasing the accelarator] This is not a sign of compression leak [refer your post #84, pt 3] And even if they do the compression test, ask them to do so in your presence. Remember that most dealers try to milk whatever they can, even if not entirely required at that stage. I do understand that you have gone through a recommendation, but nevertheless, there is no harm in running your jeep as it is. OT: Maybe thats why MM440 gave you a jerry can of water free along with your jeep so that you could get used to filling her up: LOL Happy Jeeping!
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 13:24	#95
Mohnish BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 206 Thanked: Once	Post deleted by self on account problem found. Last edited by Mohnish : 12th August 2008 at 13:30.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 13:25	#96
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	Samurai Sir, Is there any picture showing that? A cracked head? Last edited by headers : 12th August 2008 at 13:27.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 16:22	#100
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,828 Thanked: 45,540 Times View My Garage	I visited the service center and this is what I saw. Water pump (looks like my mechanic only checked for circulation) The head gasket, notice the red circle where it was leaking. Cracked head The engine block looks fine, the liners and pistons were ok. But the mechanics who had previously opened it used some non-standard bolts. So they made new wider grooves into the holes circled in red. What kind of nit-wits would do this to an engine. They have looked at welding the head at the machine shop. Since the head is aluminium, results won't be good. The new head costs 29K and they have it ready.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 16:25	#101
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	So it requires a overhaul. All those looking for oil, why is it not there? I do remember saying sometime back that the engine needs a overhaul, the last 10-15 posts point to the same. I was jumped on and asked to prove it....lol. Dont lose heart, like i had said (even earlier) you should have contacted the previous owner when you started having the overheating issues.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 16:36	#102
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	Sharath, time for you to give Jammy a call.!!! he should be able to shed light if this crack is recent or had symptoms of crack from earlier days. Also, he can explain about the non standard bolts being used.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 17:01	#105
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	@Samurai: Pardon my ignorance. The crack is between water body and head bolts. How is that effecting the engine? Coolant will drip away but engine power/compression should remain intact. An age old remedy in such cases was application of turmeric powder to fill up leakage cracks in Amby's and Willy's. 8-( And I have driven an Amby over the mountains coming back from Kashmir in such a patch repair job circa ~1975. 35K is steep.
	() Thanks