[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Yup. and, AFAIK, all Peugeot engines came with 4.88, except for some earlier ones with 5.38

Had one of those!

Regards
Sutripta

[jyobeb]

The 5MT 320 Gearbox off the new Scorpio. I don't think we have pic of it.

[prabhuav]

This is interesting..
Which engine was it mated to?

[jyobeb]

Originally Posted by prabhuav

This is interesting..
Which engine was it mated to?

The MHawk engine. Gearbox is quite compact.

[dracul]

Scorpio Petrol 4x4 Gearbox mated to Nissan TD27 engine.

[V-16]

Hi Guys i have a wonderfully otr capable (and proven time and again) 550 with a KMT90 and T18 (army spec). It kicks A on the trail but to get to the trail is the problem. while highway cruising, it is always wanting of the 5th gear and so grunts and huffs. I have the following queries;

1) Will plonking a 5 speed GB perhaps the NGT 520/30 make a difference? Will my city driving be easier and highway cruising considerably increase for the better? (BA-10 im told is not even an option to consider)

2) Will the 3200Mdi Turbo and and NGT (which NGT but) solve my initial problem but also offer similar off road driveability (essentially the crawling)

3) Is the 2.6 Crde with Ngt a better option?

4) Getting an Isuzu 2.8 TD with 5 speed 4WD GB. Will this make me happier/ (it costs 75k)

5) What should the above cost.

6) Is there a more reliable and easier option of increasing highway driveability without much swapping?

Thanks!!

[lugnut]

Originally Posted by V-16

Hi Guys i have a wonderfully otr capable (and proven time and again) 550 with a KMT90 and T18 (army spec). It kicks A on the trail but to get to the trail is the problem. while highway cruising, it is always wanting of the 5th gear and so grunts and huffs. I have the following queries;

1) Will plonking a 5 speed GB perhaps the NGT 520/30 make a difference? Will my city driving be easier and highway cruising considerably increase for the better? (BA-10 im told is not even an option to consider)

2) Will the 3200Mdi Turbo and and NGT (which NGT but) solve my initial problem but also offer similar off road driveability (essentially the crawling)

3) Is the 2.6 Crde with Ngt a better option?

4) Getting an Isuzu 2.8 TD with 5 speed 4WD GB. Will this make me happier/ (it costs 75k)

5) What should the above cost.

6) Is there a more reliable and easier option of increasing highway driveability without much swapping?

Thanks!!

Gogi, I'll take a stab at this (been running through some of these mental gymnastics myself).

1. If you swap out the KMT90, you'll get the hydraulic clutch - so stop start driving becomes car like. And you'll get the 5th forward gear (overdrive) - but unless you accompany this with a diff ratio lower than 4.88, you'll still cap off at ~85kph (albeit with less engine RPM)

One other thing here - if mating this to a T18 transfer case, no additional changes required. If mating to a BorgWarner mechanical transfer case, you'll need to swap your rear diff to one that aligns with the driveshaft drop side (passenger side drop).

2. The crawling comes off the diff ratio selected. If you retain 4.88 you should be good here. Going lower (4.2) will compromise crawl. Note that the 3200Mdi Turbo is ~100kgs heavier than XD3 - so if your vehicle is a C section chassis, expect to apply further boxing to the chassis. One fear I have with this setup is making the Jeep front heavy.. +power to weight would be another consideration.
Also expect agrarian rattling and vibration post this setup. Much less refined than the XD3.

3. 2.6 CRDE will be heavy, have electronics, and the engine sump will foul will with the front diff in SUA. Look for other threads where this has been discussed. And it will involve more mods.

4. This could work. Again think of mods+weight+workmanship.

5. Add ~40% to equipment purchase price at the end of the transplant project under every option. Also, the condition of what you'll pick up may lead to estimates going haywire.

6. Swap both the ring pinions to 4.2 ratio. This is simple. But, you will lose the low end crawl. And IIRC, the factory MM550XD LSD as well.

I've also been considering using the Warn Overdrive instead for better cruising without much sacrifice -
Look here or here
I believe (Arka's ?) tried this out earlier.

This still leaves the mechanical clutch in .. I've yet to see some ingenious way to change this to hydraulic.

All the best.

[commander]

Originally Posted by V-16

1) Will plonking a 5 speed GB perhaps the NGT 520/30 make a difference? Will my city driving be easier and highway cruising considerably increase for the better? (BA-10 im told is not even an option to consider)

2) Will the 3200Mdi Turbo and and NGT (which NGT but) solve my initial problem but also offer similar off road driveability (essentially the crawling)

6) Is there a more reliable and easier option of increasing highway driveability without much swapping?

Thanks!!

HI V-16.,
Just changed to NGT 520 last week from a KMT gbox on my DiT engine primary reason being noise. The gear shifts in my KMT was smooth, could touch triple digit speeds and rock solid offroad. But the draining factor was the humming noise from speeds after 60. Between reworking and changing to NGT preferred NGT after considering costs and required end results.

1. Yes it will make a world of difference. The gearshifts are far more smoother which also lets you to downshift easily compared to KMT. I find the NGT to be much less aggressive than the KMT in driving styles. You could actually listen to music now. The NGT is obviously much relaxed and moves better at speeds after 80. The engine idling also seems to be much smoother now (possibly due to lighter flywheel of NGT).

2. Am running a 4.88 ratio with the DiT but there is a difference in crawling from my limited trials. The KMT was much better at crawling while the NGT 520 is a tad faster first and reverse. Its not that bad though. From a offroad point., NGT is quite delicate if your gearbox takes a hit and repairs can easily touch 20k. That i think is the only con in a NGT., unless you have a lift. Also it would be better if you get the NGT from a civilian platform, from what I've heard and done.

6. As lugnut mentioned, you could lower your crown/pinion ratios but offroad crawling and undesired wheelspin will be a headache.

Regards
Barani

[kaushik.genius]

Hello,
I am very new to this forum and would be eternally grateful if experienced BHPians could help me out with my queries. I am currently rebuilding a 2005 model army spec MM550 NGCS 4x4 with XD3P+KMT90+T-18. I will be mostly using the jeep for very long distance highway drives(2000 kms +) and uphill drives and very limited OTR's. The queries are

1. With the current combination and 31 inch wheels, engine rpm 4200, 4.88:1 diff, 4th gear ratio 1:1 calculation suggests max 127 kmph, with experience what max speed and how long can the engine sustain without overheating/ most comfortable cruising speed?

2. Is XD3P + NGT 520/530 combination feasible?

3. Optimal engine and gearbox combination to have 100+ cruising speed.

Cheers
Kaushik

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

I am currently rebuilding a 2005 model army spec MM550 NGCS 4x4 with XD3P+KMT90+T-18

Congratulations Kaushik on your project.

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

with experience what max speed and how long can the engine sustain without overheating/ most comfortable cruising speed?

If your engine, radiator and pump is in good condition about 110 to 115 cruising is fine with 31 inch tyres, but obviously the strain and wear and tear is more as you will be running much higher rpms without the over drive.

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

2. Is XD3P + NGT 520/530 combination feasible?

From 2007 the MM550 NGCS came with XD3p + NGT520 combo, so you can do this. The original bell housing maybe hard to source, but you can use adapter plate. If you want to retain the 4x4, get a 520/530 with transfer case as the plate that connects the transfer case to these gearboxes are hard to to source separately.

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

3. Optimal engine and gearbox combination to have 100+ cruising speed.

Ideally you need to go for the Scorpio SZ+ and 530 combo. If it is difficult you can use the current XD3P and go for BA10/NGT520/NGT530 combo.

[kaushik.genius]

[quote=4x4addict
Ideally you need to go for the Scorpio SZ+ and 530 combo. If it is difficult you can use the current XD3P and go for BA10/NGT520/NGT530 combo.[/QUOTE]

Thank you sir for such a quick reply.

I am planning to use the current XD3P engine as it is in very good condition and due to budgetary constraints. I have spoken to my mechanic and he has sourced a post 2006 MM 550 with a 4x4 5 speed gearbox. He says it is NGT.

1. Is there any way I can recognise if the gearbox is BA10/NGT 520/530?

2. Some posts suggests that XD3P is a high torque engine and NGT series takes a hit mated with them. Is there any experienced BHPian using XD3P + NGT series and share the pros and cons?

3. My mechanic is quoting 20k for the exchange to 5 speed gearbox. I am sure that the tested and rugged KMT 90 is in demand for offroaders so Is the price justifiable?

4. Where can I get hold of service manual for XD3P engine as with Google searches I have only come across a training presentation used by mahindra for training on XD3P engines.

Cheers
Kaushik

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by dracul

Scorpio Petrol 4x4 Gearbox mated to Nissan TD27 engine.

Hi, isnt this pramod's vehicle. Please let me know how theTD27 fairs on load pulling applications.

[dracul]

Dhanushs, this is not Pramod's vehicle. We changed the engine of our petrol scorpio in Qatar. Still in wip.
Abin

[kaushik.genius]

During a small research on Google I came across this VIN number specification of Mahindra MM series. Just match your chassis number with the coading to understand the characteristics of your original jeep. Hope this is helpful.

Cheers
Kaushik

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

1. Is there any way I can recognise if the gearbox is BA10/NGT 520/530?

The BA10 has an aluminium casing, the NGT has a cast iron casing. Please post a picture of it and we can confirm if it is NGT or not. Also I think there is some serial number on the gearbox which tells you if it is NGT.

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

2. Some posts suggests that XD3P is a high torque engine and NGT series takes a hit mated with them. Is there any experienced BHPian using XD3P + NGT series and share the pros and cons?

The XD3P engine makes only 16 kgm torque. The NGT530 is designed for Torque upto 20 kgm. The DI Turbo Engine makes 19kgm Torque. You won't have any issues with the XD3P Torque.

Originally Posted by kaushik.genius

3. My mechanic is quoting 20k for the exchange to 5 speed gearbox.

It is a reasonable price, as the 4x4 NGT520 goes for about 40K.