[nitrous]

Originally Posted by Tejas

If i have a switchable ABS with EBD, i'd be the happiest person.

I'd like to know cars that are sold which have this option of switching off ABS.
(Traction control not considered)

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I would like to hear from B.D. or another insider on what they think the long term ownership maintenance issues are with the Thar especially in regard to the IFS front end. What is likely to need attention, inspection etc.?

Dan, You really think an insider is gonna tell us the maintenance issues with the vehicle?

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by ex670c

When M&M Kit-Bashes a vehicle is Manufacturing and Factories, but when we do it its Jugaad.

If Jugaad it is then we don't need Differential Locks, or Change Shock Absorbers or Change Tyres or convert to power-steering, or even make a roll-cage or fit a winch, maybe we should stop off-roading.

Jugaad, is the INDIAN search for excellence, When company gives "Chalta Hai" we have to do Jugaad, chalaney ke liye.

+1
So true!

I wish M&M customisation could be more active and do much more than what they do now!

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by nitrous

I'd like to know cars that are sold which have this option of switching off ABS.
(Traction control not considered)

Off hand: BMW on their GS bikes, Volkswagen Amarok, RR, Toyota FR--2 (i think), older Audis and a lot of dirt bikes/atvs.

Googling will surely reveal more.

EDIT:

Googled. There are lots of off road vehicles, track vehicles & bikes with this option.
And it is Toyota FT-86. Here's a pic with ABS and TC off options:

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Off hand: BMW on their GS bikes, Volkswagen Amarok, RR, Toyota FR--2 (i think), older Audis and a lot of dirt bikes/atvs.

Googling will surely reveal more.

EDIT:

Googled. There are lots of off road vehicles, track vehicles & bikes with this option.
And it is Toyota FT-86. Here's a pic with ABS and TC off options:

Ok, agreed.
Almost all the vehicles you've specified are off-road / snow vehicles and it is needed in these vehicles.
That said, I don't think the Thar will have an ABS option in the first place.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by nitrous

That said, I don't think the Thar will have an ABS option in the first place.

Yup, i know it won't. People spoke about wish list, so i added. That's all.

[Xinger]

This thread has turned from warm and gushing with congratulatory messages for M&M to brickbats, abuse and almost universal vilification of M&M, even going to the extent of calling them scrap dealers! And all this is without anybody having even seen the final vehicle in question, let alone had a test drive or having some kind of ownership experience!

Phew! No wonder most Thar threads are on the fast track to closure as soon as they are born!!

[rockyb]

The rear number plate you mean? Yes! I noticed it too. Retro fitted (read - last minute bolted) from Bolero. In fact I noticed few more ergonomically poor things.

1. The Steering is now more off centre to the seating position
2. The turn signal / wiper control is almost unsuable since it touching the central dash and there is no space at all to put the finger in to turn it. Turn feature can used but not wiper.
3. Space for music system - way too low - The dash has been directly lifted from old Bolero Inventory. I guess its wee bit wide for Thar

Other things I didn't like

4. Fuel cap - No cover
5. No front facing 2nd row seats - still same old "taxi" benches.

Was expecting much better fit and finish product. My bad. No - am not asking for AC/ ABS / TC/ airbags etc etc but the same spec in better quality & finish. Why should I accept sub-standard quality in 2010AD ?

These attention to details is stopping MM to reach the MNC level of Toyota / Honda. Not to mention low quality steel which will rust very soon - starting with the window panels to be precise.

Still kudos to MM team for delayed rebirth of a Jeep but personally not been able to justify Rs. 7.26 L onroad for the CRDe version.

Am tempted to buy a broken down MM540 and give it to MM to mod it to Thar Adventure

No - I havn't test drove it. No point loiterning around in tarmac around the showroom. Would like to test drive it's off road capability.

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Does anyone find something abnormal with the number plate or is it just me?

If the number plate is going to be there, then god only can help it. M&M should have known better !

[Parm]

an important question to all!

does anyone understands that THAR CRDe is not the main product to be pushed through the sales and set the sales charts on fire?

Thar MDI is the real product by M&M, which replaced Major and it is this product which is expected to bring in sales for M&M!

could anyone give monthly sales figures of Major? so that we know what is expected from MDI Thar?

could anyone tell how many Thar CRDe have been produced and the further production of CRDe will depend upon the sales and feed back from the first batch! (Limited Edition Legend started the planning to give birth to THAR).

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear all - I have carefully gone through all your posts and I am happy to see a lot of enthusiasm about both the products. This makes me happy. Thank you very much.

You have observed that we have done things differently than what a normal vehicle manufacturer does, during the product development cycle and it's subsequent life cycle, as it progresses in the field. You have liked what we have done. It has given all of us the desired result. Now that the CRDe and DI vehicles are in the showrooms, we are spending quality time, continuing to do things differently there also, to ensure that we give you what you want. This will enhance the capability of deliverables of our present processes which in any case are one of the best in the counrty today.

Therefore, yours truly, along with a certain creation, popularly known to all of you as "--V521" will be lurking somewhere in New Delhi on the 28th and in Jaipur on the 29th. Similarly, Vinod should be spotted somewhere in Bangalore on the 28th. PM us. Let's make it interesting. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[COUNSEL]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Similarly, Vinod should be spotted somewhere in Bangalore on the 28th. PM us. Let's make it interesting. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Ok thats cool.

So when we meet the M&M Marketing guy in Bangalore, what can we expect?

1. Real good discounts if we buy THAR.
2. 2 yrs free labour charges for any repairs at M&M service outlet.
3. Will The Marketing guy readily take note of all the shortcomings and incorporate features soon and release a new THAR in say 6 months.
4. Something even more juicy like super discounts on exchange of our old M&M vehicle for a new THAR.
5. Or some similar dream offers!

Yes, this is really interesting!!

Or is the Bangalore trip just a marketing gimmick? May be to help some real off road enthusiasts who are confused to buy THAR or Japanese off roader.

[jeepster]

Originally Posted by COUNSEL

what can we expect?

1. Real good discounts if we buy THAR.
2. 2 yrs free labour charges for any repairs at M&M service outlet.

3. Will The Marketing guy readily take note of all the shortcomings and incorporate features soon and release a new THAR in say 6 months.

4. Something even more juicy like super discounts on exchange of our old M&M vehicle for a new THAR.

as far as Vinod is concerned he is more offroader than marketing guy.

no drive-train warranty on 4x4 models. (i am 100% sure)
so no free labor charges on service.

i agree with exchange program.

[Jaggu]

Kewl. I really would like to see the real thing and see how it can help me decide. I know I have to reply to the words of wisdom posted in my dilemma thread. But a tasting exercise should help me put things in perspective.

[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

@anujmishra:
What is the point that you are trying to make? That the thar crde has been assembled from a ready parts bin? Then the answer is yes. BD went through a lot to get sanction to develop a vehicle which is otr centric and thus wouldn't classify as a mass market vehicle. This was the best possible thing that came out on a limited budget.

I'm not a fanboy, BUT having driven the thar on road at 140kmph, I can tell u that it's rock solid and with nearly zero body roll.

@Tejas: My point is simple as I am not able to digest more than half century old vehicle with new engine. Well for passionate people there is no bar and I appreciate their eagerness for getting new vehicle atleast with some major improvement.

Well If you have done 140 KMPH in Thar with very stable on road performance then I must say It is very good report. Let's wait for some more reviews.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

There are many, including fans and owners of M&M vehicles (old and new), who share the same feeling. Let me add its not only about M&M but Tata also, who generally come out with improved version 2. So they are on wait and watch mode and keenly looking at early adopters.

Any manufacturer who does this are not good. But this is exceptions and M&M still carrying forward more than half century old design.

Yup i sincerely request the same, better safe than sorry! Thanks to our India traffic condition more than anything else. Yes they can do sustained high speeds, any modern diesel engine with decent tranny should.

If it is the case then It would very good. But I think it is too early to comment without reading some reviews.

Passion and reason dont work hand in hand sometimes, so dont bother too much. Reason will take over, over a period of time.

I agree for passionate people there is no bar. I am not commenting on them at all. My comments are for the people who will buy Thar without passion as a UV in village and small town. I do not think there are high numbers of passionate people who will dictate sale of Mahindra Thar.

Not a good example coz- Its an R&D vehicle run and maintained by M&M. So from cosmetics it might look junk, but how can you guarantee that it is not being redone completely mechanically after every stint?

Naturally with the new engine they have changed gear box, tranny etc. But when we call vehicle it does not only contain these things. It contains lot more. Aesthetics/interior improvements are also desired in 21st century.

I admire M&M for all of their great products. But I feel there is place for healthy criticism from common man point of view.
If I am not passionate and not avid off-roader like many esteemed member here and there is vehicle put on sale What point should I check before deciding to buy one. These can be my personal view but many common people think like that.

I have never said it is bad vehicle. I have said improvements in Thar is not upto the mark.

Please note everyone even in Team-BHP Official review of any car, reviewer put one separate list "What I do not like?". Same is with me.

Originally Posted by Ym-enjn

Same is with Thar..

I should have believed this if I would have seen changes in ergonomics/design aspects also in Thar.

[DKG]

Old is not necessarily bad guys. The Porsche 911 shape is 47 years old and will never change as far as I can tell. It will be murder if anyone attempts a 911 with another body.

Until recently Rolls Royce used an ancient pushrod V8 from GM for all their cars and the Bentleys.

You guys are talking about a parts bin approach. The floorpan for the Toureg, Cayenne and one other (I think the Q7) is the same. The chassis of the Hilux, Fortuner and Innova are the same. The engines in 5 series and 7 series BMW's are the same and yet you pay 40 lakhs more for it in a 7

So parts bin manufacturing is all about economies of scale guys. Mercedes does it all the time. Sharing engines across their models

So why not Mahindra or Tata?

Are you guys aware that it costs close to a billion dollars to design a car ground up fresh from scratch to be a world car? Companies would fold up if they attempted that for every model they sold ! Why do you think all those mergers happened this past decade? Its all about rationalisation of manufacturing. It will still continue. Eventually you will have 5 giant groups that sell you 50 brands with parts shared across brands !

[Grace]

Hilux and Innova is based on same platform of IMV- International Multipurpose Vehicle. Infact the Innova engine (D4D) and the chassis was tested on a Hilux double cab before Innova launch in 2005. Indian Fortuner chassis is a differant one altogether.

Warm Regards